Trial Discussion Thread #51 - 14.11.9, Day 41 ~announcement of the verdict~

[Interested Bystander]

Recording of a lawyer saying that Sean Rens evidence meant there was no way he would get only CH. Very interesting.

EDIT Sorry, I should have said I was listening to the radio and the interview was replayed there.

 

[donadenese]

"How could the accused have reasonably foreseen the shot he fired would have killed the deceased? Clearly he did not subjectively foresee this, that he would have killed the person behind the door, let alone the deceased," says Judge Masipa.

Perhaps if he had shot but once, but four shots into such a small area leaves no room for doubt. Certainly, if there was doubt in Oscar's mind, he would have continued to fire.

 

[ColonelMustard]

In the US you get the "justice" you can buy. Same thing in SA, I'd say, and I don't mean Roux and his posse.

Roux looked like the world had ended today. He should have been celebrating all along. I'd suggest that he he feels terrible because he compromised his ethics in this, at the end, that he knew pressure had been applied to Masipa.

Yeah, she's followed the law but when the law was based on what was subjective, she went with an interpretation that favored him. I apologize, but for that, I think she's an idiot ... or afraid.

Nel knows what goes on. He won the Selebi (?) trial but a bunch of guys barged into his house and arrested him in front of his wife and kids. This stuff happens.

 

[akp]

Can't believe what I've just been watching!
Totally lost for words

 

[fox1lady]

The question is whether he foresaw that he would kill Reeva by firing shots through the bathroom door - and the answer was a firm "no." Are you listening to her reading of the judgment?

but yet he foresaw that if he had fired a warning shot into the shower cubicle it would ricochet and hit him!!! Strange that isn't it

 

[HauntsForHope]

Wow, seems to me, an avid gun enthusiast knows full well that shooting 4 shots through a closed door could kill the person on the other side, absolutely. I don't understand her reasoning on this point.

 

[sleuth-d-]

OMG. He looked 'genuinely distraught as he prayed to God.' Cannot be found guilty dolus eventualis

But 'culpable homicide' is a competant verdict????

Early lunch.

What's goingon? What just happened?

i really don't see how she can include 4 peoples interpretation of how distraught he was... but not 4 peoples version of the screaming.

why is there no doubt connected to his praying to god/crying over the body?

and why does his behaviour after the killing explain the killing? post-killing so many killers will do anything to 'get off'... so many killers swear innocence.

 

[kaydono]

but yet he foresaw that if he had fired a warning shot into the shower cubicle it would ricochet and hit him!!! Strange that isn't it

The logic is warped if you ask me.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Time for diagram again......


Judge must decide if his mistakes were REASONABLE, if YES, he's a free man. If it's NO, sentence at her discretion. IMO, he will not go to jail. :gaah: Jeez, not even 6 months?!! Come on! If he wounds or takes another life, this will be a double tragedy.

 

[MeeBee]

In the US you get the "justice" you can buy. Same thing in SA, I'd say, and I don't mean Roux and his posse.

Roux looked like the world had ended today. He should have been celebrating all along. I'd suggest that he he feels terrible because he compromised his ethics in this, at the end, that he knew pressure had been applied to Masipa.

Yeah, she's followed the law but when the law was based on what was subjective, she went with an interpretation that favored him. I apologize, but for that, I think she's an idiot ... or afraid.

Nel knows what goes on. He won the Selebi (?) trial but a bunch of guys barged into his house and arrested him in front of his wife and kids. This stuff happens.

Based on what I've heard, Roux seems to believe, genuinely, in his client's innocence.

 

[soozieqtips]

The intruder story was the ONLY reasonable excuse he could come up with. It's not rocket science. He killed Reeva, and then had to invent a story to explain it. What other story could he possibly have come up with??? He killed someone. He had to explain his actions. He comes up with the intruder story. He was hardly drowning with other options to choose from.

 

[Hope4More]

So this is pretty much what I thought would happen. That she would reject the state's version so have little choice but to believe OP's version. The burden of proof is on the state, of course. And there are factors working in his favor: the timeline supports his version, the state did not even get into it, which seems to suggest they could not explain it. He began telling people right away he thought it was an intruder. That is awfully quick to come up with a story and have it remain consistent before he even knew what the evidence was. And, his show of what seems to be genuine emotion throughout, even to those who didn't know him. Sure, there could be other explanations, but the judge cannot entertain anything that is mere speculation, so she has to go on what she knows to be true. So far, everything she has said I agree with. Wow.

Me too.

I also am assuming the "aghast" media commentators know the difference between a judge doing her job and weighing testimony and evidence in accordance with the law and the soundness of opinions of the case expressed by viewers. I assume their response is about playing to their viewers.

IMO she's done an outstanding job of reasoning and of explaining her rationale.

 

[LakesGirl]

I am utterly stunned. How can Masipa not believe Dulus Eventualis was proved by the state? (and the defence too, ironically). I'm not even confident of a Culpable Homicide conviction right now. Feel so bad for June and Barry Steenkamp sitting there listening to this travesty of justice. Poor Reeva, RIP

 

[mister happy]

Looks like this is going to be wrapped up in one day. What do you think?

 

[MeeBee]

Wow, seems to me, an avid gun enthusiast knows full well that shooting 4 shots through a closed door could kill the person on the other side, absolutely. I don't understand her reasoning on this point.

But did he know he'd kill Reeva? That seems to be what the judge is getting at. He did not intend to kill Reeva, only to shoot an intruder she believes he believed was there. That is not murder.

 

[kaydono]

I would truly like to know what the South African courts define as "reasonable".

 

[ColonelMustard]

Essentially, I think he's going to be the same reckless jerk father this is over when he gets out ( if he even goes in). He's gotten away with his bu//$hit, again. He's untouchable and will be cockier than ever. But, like I said, I think he'll win the battle but the war. He'll be beloved by those who have always loved him no matter what but will be reviled by many he will wish embraced and accepted him. They never will.

 

[sweetcaro]

The question is whether he foresaw that he would kill Reeva by firing shots through the bathroom door - and the answer was a firm "no." Are you listening to her reading of the judgment?

My problem with this he had to know there was someone behind that door as he was in fear for his life. He foresaw danger. He shot at the door knowing this. He had to know firing 4 shots in such a space would have seen a high probability of death, especially given the power of his weapon. I am just disgusted. This verdict is such a misjustice. Based on the known facts I am in disbelief at her not guilty rulings and the weight she is giving to OP's own testimony.

 

[sorrell skye]

If m'lady is right, the lesson for future SA murderers is make sure there are no other witnesses still alive who actually saw you do it, because if you're alone then you must be believed.

And make sure you claim immediately that you believed there was an intruder and make sure you say you had no intention to kill anyone - it was an accident.

Oh - and keep repeating "I was terrified for my life."

 

[DebinGA]

If I heard correctly, the judge said the shooting was unlawful, and her final words iirc were something like "but fits culpable homicide".