Trial Discussion Thread #54 - 14.13.10, Day 43 ~ sentencing~

[ColonelMustard]

Therapist says....

"...he mentioned a young girl he met at school that he's still friends with..."

Who's that? Jenna Edkins?

 

[jilly]

I'm a teetotaler. Always have been, always will be.

I just HATE the taste of liquor - all of it.

Before I go now and TRY to watch Day 1 Sentencing, I'm going to take a HUGE gulp of my husband's whiskey.

Maybe I'll keep the bottle handy...

:hilarious:

That's 2x today you've cracked me right up. As I sit here at my computer with shoulders up from tension, thank you for giving me the few moments of release.

 

[whiterum]

Thank you. Very well said. And this truly does offer us some comfort because you are correct that all indications are showing us that he will eventually cause his own downfall once he is out.

Hopefully he wont hurt anybody else but himself when it finally happens.

Like shooting at his shadow causing a ricochet up his own *advertiser censored*!

 

[ColonelMustard]

Therapist says...

"... criterias..." later "... criterias..." then "... criterias..."



There is no such word "criterias".

The plural of criterion (singular) is "criteria".

No "s" ... and this woman is a PhD?

(Nel got it right, then she realized her mistake.)

 

[Zuri]

Did I read correctly here that Maringa referred to Reeva as "it"? I was reading here this am and saw that. It has stuck in my craw all day. I hope I misread that. Can anyone clarify? TIA

 

[ColonelMustard]

<modsnip>


....AND she's lying. They talked about EVERYTHING, EVERY SINGLE THING.

She met with him ( oh, yeah, and held him) for 18 months, 18 MONTHS!!!

(I'm typing like it matters, like anything matters. It doesn't. Masipa already knows what she's going to do and that's precisely :: nothing :: )

 

[soozieqtips]

i thought it was interesting that OP (allegedly) never mentioned his new g/friend to his 'mentor' therapist. Considering she replaced the g/friend he'd killed just a few months earlier, it kind of takes away from the 'broken, remorseful' man who couldn't heal because of the negative media coverage! He healed pretty quick, if you ask me.

Shame the therapist couldn't separate herself enough from the situation to be a bit more objective and ask relevant questions, like "Well, Oscar darling. You're an empty broken shell of a man who's lost everything and will never heal or recover from your dreadful trauma. Tell me. How many days was it before you were flirting with Reeva lookalikes? And was that your new girlfriend in court?"

Has there been a single defence witness who hasn't either testified outside their field or expertise, or been very very closely involved with OP? Does Masipa even care, or is she busy writing an operetta in her head while nodding sagely once in a while and adjusting her bun?

 

[RosieC]

Masipa's Judgment very muddy but I think that she IS concluding putative private defence, 3325 line 13. That Oscar never intended to kill a person is consistent with PPD. That he did kill a person is Culpable Homicide as he had other options which would not have resulted in killing, which the reasonable man would have chosen.

I think it's a stupid, badly thought through judgment, and I'm even not sure that the state can appeal because Oscar found guilty of a competent verdict, and "the 1982 Seekoei case held: no state legal appeal if conviction on competent verdict. But, tweets Professor Grant, the state can appeal this too, at SCA & the Con Court." So the state can appeal to appeal.

It struck me that Oscar is better off with Culp Homicide and a non custodial sentence than a not guilty verdict. Grant didn't agree and I'm not a lawyer of any description, but he's a great lawyer, so clearly I defer.

I should like to in see transcripts of other Judgments by Masipa. Thanks for your interesting posts!!

 

[ColonelMustard]

Social worker, Malinga now reading that, in part, OP derives income from motivational speaking.

---

I imagine he'll be able to continue earning money that way.

Oscar Pistorius Speaking Next Week at Gauteng Auditorium: "How To get Away with Murder."

 

[Jake18]

I don't personally think Judge Masipa's perceived hostility towards Nel is due to past history or even a personal dislike. IMO it's more that he's like her conscience, niggling away at that part of her mind that's decided that OP is the victim and shouldn't be overtly punished. Nel is reminding her about Reeva, the woman OP killed and she doesn't like those horrible, nasty reminders so she's projecting that discomfort onto him.

Nel can't win this, the outcome was probably decided a long time ago.

Colonel, I'll break out my whisky if there's no appeal.

 

[JudgeJudi]

As I lost the opportunity to contribute last night, I&#8217;ll attempt to consolidate some of the evidence. The vast majority of the following is verbatim. I've refrained from adding comment because I think you've all done a brilliant job of it already.

Has treated OP since 23 Feb 2013 when he was referred to her for grief therapy. She came to court to share some of her observations during psychotherapy. She&#8217;s been involved with him for 18 months. The frequency of the consultations varied &#8230;sometimes daily, weekly or monthly. The duration of the sessions varied &#8230;some were short and some lasted up to 2 hours. Initially it was difficult to have psychotherapy sessions. He was very emotional. They couldn&#8217;t conduct some of the sessions as they were just him weeping and crying and her holding him. Initially it was grief counselling but it eventually went over to trauma therapy. (Henzen du-Toit is doing a lot of note taking).

She referred OP to a psychiatrist for pharmacological treatment and this is still ongoing.

OP presented with feelings of guilt and remorse, often overwhelming him. He often had to excuse himself from a session due to retching. This mainly occurred when recounting his sensory perceptions of the shooting. He also presented with obvious physical symptoms of perspiring, a pale pallor, trembling and pacing up and down which are all typical signs of anxiety and trauma.

OP was deprived of the opportunity to mourn the loss of someone he loved immediately after the incident as a result of the charge of premeditated murder and the media focus on him. He was saddened that he couldn&#8217;t attend Reeva&#8217;s memorial service and funeral. This would usually offer closure to a grieving person. Although he went through the stages of the grieving process, he kept looping back to previous stages of grief, thereby remaining in an unresolved spiral of grief without resolution.

He directed anger and blame toward himself and at stages questioned God&#8217;s grace and forgiveness as well as his own faith. His anxiety was noticeable and had an impact on his day-to-day functioning including his ability to eat and sleep. Throughout his therapy he expressed his longing for Reeva and the void he experiences living without her presence. He hasn&#8217;t reached a stage of acceptance.

OP&#8217;s remorse re his role in her death was unabated during therapy sessions. His concern for her parents was an unremitting theme. He found it distressing that he couldn&#8217;t make any personal or private contact with them to express his extreme sorrow and devastation at the loss of their daughter. The only opportunity he had to express this because her parents did not want to meet him at that stage was in public during the trial, and then he was attacked.

OP had a future planned with Reeva. He paid a deposit on a house that he wanted her to share with him. He had included her in his plans to accompany him to sports and business trips abroad. He lost his vision and his aspirations of building a future with Reeva when she died, leaving him bereft.

The charge of premeditated murder affected him nationally and internationally. It played out on the world stage and on a 24 hour TV channel in SA which gave rise to numerous experts airing their views on his character and the trial. He was often portrayed in an adverse light which perpetuated negative perceptions of him to the public who rely on information from the media. This gave rise to a platform of abuse in the media and social networks that had a significant detrimental effect on his emotional functioning and behaviour both before and during the trial. His opportunity for healing was destroyed by the malevolent reports and public comment. As a result of him standing accused of premeditated murder, he lost the mutual friends he shared with Reeva. This was devastating for him at the time when he needed the support of friends the most. He felt isolated as a result of this.

His fall as an icon in world athletics who was revered and celebrated to being vilified and humiliated in the media and social networks had a profound effect on his identity of self. Although he was aware and appreciative of the positive support he had received, he experienced himself as utterly worthless, devastated and guilt-ridden.

She can confirm his remorse and pain to be genuine. The healing process and any form of closure for OP is compromised and damaged by the constant negatives attacks against him. He feels that this has been premised by inaccurate facts regarding the shooting incident. He expressed horror at the leaked photographs of the scene of the shooting, viewing this as disrespectful to Reeva and those close to her. The weight that the loss of Reeva by his own actions has had on OP is incalculable and cannot be quantified.

He will require intensive and ongoing psychotherapy. We are left with a broken man who has lost everything &#8211; his love relationship with Reeva, his moral and professional reputation, friends, his career, his earning potential and financial independence. He&#8217;s unlikely to ever recover from the consequences of the shooting incident.


Okay, now you can all tear it apart.

 

[ColonelMustard]

Today, it looked like M. Bachelor was:

1. Sitting right in front of petite little Mrs. Steenkamp??
2. Getting very antsy.

Today, I hope M. Bachelor was:

1. Giving OP the evil eye
2. Planning their next meeting at The Hawks

 

[emirates1957]

Have only just caught up. I started my gin and tonic on page 8 of WS. Couldn't decide whether one drink was too many or 17 was not enough&#8230;&#8230;.let's say it was finished very quickly. Back to Dan Murphy's to pick up some more supplies to get through another night of this total bu$$$$$it. If OP was scared of security prior to this, christ knows how he will cope with no weaponary to assist him if he is released back within the general community.

 

[ColonelMustard]

Today I:

1. Read all the Day 1 posts, here.
2. Watched the complete Day 1 video
3. Read all of Barry Bateman's tweets
4. Read all of Mandy Weiner's tweets
5. Definitively conclude that there is NO better live written coverage of the OP Trial than right here at WS, hands down.
6. The difference isn't like night and day, it's like dark matter in the universe and a super nova.

 

[JudgeJudi]

It's arguable that Roux should be disbarred. The defence commissioned the leaked video. Roux knew Oscar's mobility on stumps, but called e.g. Derman as a witness, knowing that he was not giving true evidence about Oscar's mobility.

I don't believe it's arguable. Regardless of who commissioned the video, if it could be proven that they watched it prior to the trial, from what I've read they could definitely be disbarred for misleading the court.

Personally speaking I definitely believe they saw it. Why would something costing a lot of money be made and only to be viewed by the OP family. I think I read somewhere where the family said they commissioned it to help with his version, or something like that, but what would be the point if the PT weren't going to view it? Absolutely, positively none.

 

[ColonelMustard]

Have only just caught up. I started my gin and tonic on page 8 of WS. Couldn't decide whether one drink was too many or 17 was not enough&#8230;&#8230;.let's say it was finished very quickly. Back to Dan Murphy's to pick up some more supplies to get through another night of this total bu$$$$$it. If OP was scared of security prior to this, christ knows how he will cope with no weaponary to assist him if he is released back within the general community.

Oh, I think he'll have weaponry alright - even if he is legally forbidden to do so.

After his sweeping up at the museum sentence is complete, I think he'll do whatever the heck he wants to do, whenever he wants to to do it.

I also think that, given enough time, he'll crash and burn.

I think he's been living inside a bubble all this time at Uncle Arthur's. I can't imagine that he yet fully understands the vitriol that so many people feel toward him, and that he's actually despised worldwide.

For awhile I imagine he'll skate along during a "honeymoon" period on the love, adoration, and adulation of the Pistorians. But the simultaneous hate, disdain, and worse that he'll face at every turn will slowly eat away at him.

Even with superior training and conditioning, can you really run a world class race with 1/2 the people in the stadium booing you and shouting epithets?

Someday, he may wish that he had been sentenced to real time, prison time -- served that time and come out with people having some respect that justice was done.

In this case, he may wind up doing what I think OJ (If I Did It) Simpson has done: subconsciously created situations, which have landed him in prison -- a place where he's always known he should be.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

Today I:

1. Read all the Day 1 posts, here.
2. Watched the complete Day 1 video
3. Read all of Barry Bateman's tweets
4. Read all of Mandy Weiner's tweets
5. Definitively conclude that there is NO better live written coverage of the OP Trial than right here at WS, hands down.
6. The difference isn't like night and day, it's like dark matter in the universe and a super nova.

I totally agree, Colonel! WS is a treasure trove, the friendly, intelligent debate unmatched. I only wish I had discovered this site before the trial started instead of July!

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Good morning, dear WSs! :seeya:
My time in GER 06:42am and I'm waiting with you all. Unfortunately I missed yesterday's processes because my baby daughter has moved to a new address within a big city 100 km away and I was helping over some days. Now I'm finally back at home in my small town and back at my laptop. :happydance:

 

[Lux et Veritas]

Oh, I think he'll have weaponry alright - even if he is legally forbidden to do so.

After his sweeping up at the museum sentence is complete, I think he'll do whatever the heck he wants to do, whenever he wants to to do it.

I also think that, given enough time, he'll crash and burn.

I think he's been living inside a bubble all this time at Uncle Arthur's. I can't imagine that he yet fully understands the vitriol that so many people feel toward him, and that he's actually despised worldwide.

For awhile I imagine he'll skate along during a "honeymoon" period on the love, adoration, and adulation of the Pistorians. But the simultaneous hate, disdain, and worse that he'll face at every turn will slowly eat away at him.

Even with superior training and conditioning, can you really run a world class race with 1/2 the people in the stadium booing you and shouting epithets?

Someday, he may wish that he had been sentenced to real time, prison time -- served that time and come out with people having some respect that justice was done.

In this case, he may wind up doing what I think OJ (If I Did It) Simpson has done: subconsciously created situations, which have landed him in prison -- a place where he's always known he should be.

Excellent post, Colonel. Agree about the gun - all he has to do is &#8216;borrow&#8217; one from his family&#8217;s arsenal. LOL He very likely feels &#8216;naked&#8217; without it, if not downright emasculated. The law never stopped OP before. He&#8217;s committed murder and will walk - what&#8217;s an illegal gun?

I seriously doubt he&#8217;s got the nerve to ever compete again. Total fan support is half of what creates a sports hero. No sponsor would touch such a toxic train wreck. His glory days are over.

 

[Estelle]

http://www.702.co.za/features/27/th...es/425/pistorius-nonkonyana-dismissal-at-safa

Professor James Grant radio comments on today’s Witnesses in the OP Trial - Radio 702

Has this interview been deleted now? What did Grant say?