Trial Discussion Thread #58 - 14.17.10, Day 47 ~ sentencing~

[Cherwell]

I don't know if Oscar is salvageable. I know he's only 27 but he was born with a physical disability and because of it he appears to have developed mental disabilities. Then, of course, he's adopted the arrogance of his family with money and power.

He was a time bomb and it went off. How does he pick up the pieces when he's lost fame and fortune - which appear to be the only things important to him. As we all know, everytime he cries in Court, it's for himself. He has no empathy or sympathy. I think it would take years of therapy (which I don't believe he'd get in prison) for him to change.

No, no, I can't agree. He has no "mental disabilities". He is just a spoilt brat.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Pistorius Trial: The arrogance, the privilege, the farce, the insult

http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/arti...arrogance-the-privilege-the-farce-the-insult/

Interesting read.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

Dont let his crys of being without money bother you ..he had and still has more than enough to retire and never worry about money again he had however lost the admaraction he craves ....he is used to fans rushing to greet him like a hero ....that is gone...
For me today boiled down to the judge asking nel how long a sentance would the prosecution expect...min10 years my lady....
Now chew on that thought till tuesday team op.....

I agree he will hate being a social Pyrrha .
His lack of money doesn't bother me at all but his legal representative trying to use it as justification to reduce his sentence does because we have no way of verifying his comments that some of his fees have gone unpaid something which I find very very hard to believe bearing in mind the family wealth and support during this trial .

 

[SallyLu]

Having stepped away from the case for a week or so I tend to think we have all headed down the rabbit hole with Masipa

This was exemplified in last nights debate where lots of effort gets expended on matters which don't have much to do with guilt or innocence.

In the end, the bullet hole business proves precisely nothing.

The case is simple at its heart and Nel as an experienced prosecutor stuck close to the matters he must prove.

The key point is that with a correct interpretation of the law, the defence must show a lawful justification for the shooting.

Second the defence must show an evidential basis for mistake.

OP's testimony spectacularly failed on two points.

First no lawful justification was shown. This should have lead inexorably to a conviction for murder, except the judge screwed the law up.

Second, there was no reliable evidence of a mistake.

OP failed to show how Reeva got in the toilet without him knowing.

In fact his entire story was manufactured and deceptive.

And that is the key to the whole case.

There is in fact no reliable evidence that any mistake was made.

So in the ordinary course, a conviction for direct murder should have followed.

Nel took the shortest and safest route to the conviction, and on any rational basis, he did in fact make out the case beyond reasonable doubt.

This is simply because the evidential onus was on the defence to make out self defence and mistake.

To now criticise Nel over timeline, or for not engaging in speculation with witnesses, is improper in my view.

The problem is not timeline, but the way in which the judge simply ignores the evidential onus, and the weight of circumstantial evidence.

To put it country simple - the failure to make out self defence should have been instantly fatal to the defence.

But somehow it wasn't.

Masipa's rabbit hole is that somehow, even though OPs' version was pure nonsense, the prosecution must nevertheless definitively prove beyond reasonable doubt he knew Reeva was in there.

But how is such proof ever possible?

Somehow Masipa resists making obvious and natural inferences of the type courts usually make.

And bizarrely Masipa concludes that OPs version was reasonably possible - even though it clearly was a lie!

I don't see what hope Nel has against such poor quality analysis.

Great facts and thoughts and well laid out. Thank you.

 

[Fuskier]

FYI
http://www.theweek.co.uk/world-news...ius-sentence-judge-hears-final-arguments-live

Oscar Pistorius trial: 'society demands a prison sentence'
Defence lawyers fight for Oscar Pistorius's freedom but prosecution presses for at least ten years in jail
LAST UPDATED AT 13:38 ON Fri 17 Oct 2014

...prosecutor Gerrie Nel said that the interests of society "demand a prison sentence" and that a minimum of ten years was required. He reminded the court of the "heart-wrenching" evidence given by Reeva's cousin Kim Martin. He ridiculed Pistorius for claiming that he was a victim and accused him of "shamelessly" using his disability as a mitigating factor.

Five questions for Judge Masipa:
1.Is a community sentence appropriate?
2.Will prison cater to Pistorius's physical needs?
3.Is prison safe for Pistorius?
4.What would be best in terms of rehabilitation?
5.Is Pistorius sorry?

 

[Gbtaketwo]

When I saw this picture of June comforting her niece, I was immediately reminded that she'd never be able to comfort her daughter again. If Roux wants to see 'broken', he should look at this picture, and remember that Reeva will always be gone for them, unlike OP, whose family can reach out and touch and hug him any time. He has given Reeva's family a life sentence, and house arrest is suitable? I don't think so. Look at Kim's face and then tell us OP is the one who's broken. He did this, no one else.


View attachment 61510

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-29664618?postId=120576433#comment_120576433

This picture brings a tear to my eye as did Kim's testimony . These are the real victims in all this as well of course Reeva . On the whole I think Nel did the best he could have today . Am trying to hope he has done enough to at least persuade the judge to hand down a custodial sentence which may go some way to heal a little of the families pain.

 

[seattlechiquita]

I am disgusted by this accused, his defense team, his family.... BROKEN --- that they are. they have a broken moral compass, a broken sense of what is right, a broken idea of what being a victim is. And yet, I am very afraid that the judge will simply acquiesce to the lies they have been selling. I entered this trial being really, really sad that two young people with such promise ended in such tragedy. I did not know better than to give this accused the benefit of the doubt. Today I KNOW, beyond a reasonable doubt, that Oscar Pistorius KNEW what he was doing and did it anyway. He extinguished Reeva's life on purpose. Whatever the sentence, I hope he does not ever find peace. He is a rotten excuse for a man.

 

[soozieqtips]

Five questions for Judge Masipa:
1.Is a community sentence appropriate?
2.Will prison cater to Pistorius's physical needs?
3.Is prison safe for Pistorius?
4.What would be best in terms of rehabilitation?
5.Is Pistorius sorry?

~snipped~

1.Is a community sentence appropriate? - Absolutely not. He can't control his temper, as we saw in the nightclub incident, and there's no reason to believe his behaviour will change.

2.Will prison cater to Pistorius's physical needs? - Yes. Nel will personally take a bench to the showers.

3.Is prison safe for Pistorius? - Probably safer for him than anyone else.

4.What would be best in terms of rehabilitation? - 5 years of intense therapy (in prison). Family counselling to figure out how he went unchecked for so long. Anger management classes. Learning to put other people's needs before his own. This could involve him helping other disabled prisoners with tasks he finds easier than they do. Talking to lots of families whose children have been killed, so he can see they never recover.

5.Is Pistorius sorry? - Yes. For himself and all he has lost.

 

[Fuskier]

http://espn.go.com/olympics/trackan...75/final-arguments-oscar-pistorius-sentencing

Prosecutor: Pistorius' Negligence Borders On Intent
Updated: October 17, 2014, 10:55 AM ET Associated Press

...Culpable homicide is comparable to manslaughter and Masipa has a wide range of options on Pistorius' sentence.
Nel said Pistorius should never be allowed to own a firearm again ...

Nel called a house arrest sentence "shockingly disproportionate" to what Pistorius did ...
"The deceased died in a small cubicle behind a closed door," Nel said. "Three bullets ripped through her body."

From the link above here are Nel's exact words to Judge Masipa:
"The minimum term that society will be happy with is 10 years imprisonment sentence." " ... and Milady, I could have started with 15 and hope that the Court will suspend 5 Milady, but this is a serious matter: the negligence borders on intent".

 

[Interested Bystander]

https://twitter.com/Chrisng53

Chris N Greenland@Chrisng53 • 15 hrs15 hours ago
#oscartrail199 #OscarPistorius Roux's claim that OP is a victim coz of some people's views and media exposure is highly objectionable

 

[seattlechiquita]

https://twitter.com/Chrisng53

Chris N Greenland@Chrisng53 • 15 hrs15 hours ago
#oscartrail199 #OscarPistorius Roux's claim that OP is a victim coz of some people's views and media exposure is highly objectionable

LOVED when Nel said something to the effect that "well dude, if you don't like the media, you don't have to read it". Concur. OP LOVED the media back in the day, the narcissistic bstrd.

 

[seattlechiquita]

I must confess I skipped over Roux's summation. Is it worth 1 hour of my ear-time?

 

[soozieqtips]

I must confess I skipped over Roux's summation.
Is it worth 1 hour of my ear-time?

BIB - only if you want to puke. Here it is in brief.

OP is also a victim.
He's been deprived of making millions.
The media was mean to him.

 

[seattlechiquita]

bib - only if you want to puke. Here it is in brief.

Op is also a victim.
He's been deprived of making millions.
The media was mean to him.

barf.

 

[WilliamMunter]

LOVED when Nel said something to the effect that "well dude, if you don't like the media, you don't have to read it". Concur. OP LOVED the media back in the day, the narcissistic bstrd.

But I thought Pistorius never reads media reports about himself. As if.

Roux: People look up at you as a sport hero. Is that correct?
Pistorius: I have not had any.. I do not check any of my media
things anymore. I do not check any of my media reports.

https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/...oor/downloads/transcripts/Oscar+Pistorius.pdf

 

[graceholl]

Thanks. Definitely a 'Wow' moment.

Another 'Wow' (for me, at least) was during OP's grandstanding apology speech. Masipa very gingerly interrupted and said, "Mr. Pistorious, I don't like doing this to you, but I can hardly hear you."

I've gotten to the point where I can barely look at her mopey dopey face.

Woah. What?

I've not been on the OP section of this site for a few weeks, but have we really come to the stage where we are insulting a 67 year old esteemed judge for her LOOKS?

Seriously? Whether you think she's right or wrong that is so disrespectful and uncalled for. Have some class.

 

[soozieqtips]

Woah. What?

I've not been on the OP section of this site for a few weeks, but have we really come to the stage where we are insulting a 67 year old esteemed judge for her LOOKS?

Seriously? Whether you think she's right or wrong that is so disrespectful and uncalled for. Have some class.

Bit of an overreaction. I think the description was related to her expression, not her looks.

 

[Greater Than]

OK OK. From my understanding what he argued during the trial is now irrelevant as the verdict did not support the state's case so he has to work within the parameters of CH. I'm sure he has his reasons for why he said what he did.

Regardless of the fact that the state did not win its case, the state still feels (like many of us) that OP committed murder. Since the court did not agree, yes, Nel had no choice but to work within the parameters of CH. But the parameters of CH include up to 15 years imprisonment.

So the point I'm trying to make is since the state feels OP should have been convicted of murder, which carries a 15 year to life sentence, I'm surprised Nel didn't respond to Masipa's question by stating unequivocally, "15 years."

Whether or not Nel or anyone else thinks Masipa would ever sentence OP the maximum allowable (or any prison term at all) is irrelevant. I just feel that since the state believes OP committed an offense that should've landed him in prison for a minimum of 15 years, that Nel should have requested the court sentence him the maximum prison term that the lesser charge of CH allows - 15 years.

 

[Lyra500]

Pistorius Trial: The arrogance, the privilege, the farce, the insult

http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/arti...arrogance-the-privilege-the-farce-the-insult/

Interesting read.

Thank you so much for that link. I adore this sentence:

There really aren’t enough expletives in the world to respond to this amount of ********.

 

[Cherwell]

BIB - only if you want to puke. Here it is in brief.

OP is also a victim.
He's been deprived of making millions.
The media was mean to him.

Correction: OP is The Victim. Reeva is dead and gone, so she need not be considered any more. :shakehead: