Trial Discussion Thread #58 - 14.17.10, Day 47 ~ sentencing~

[RosieC]

Yes I agree he and all his family were shocked about the CH judgement. They are used to winning and using their wealth to their advantage .
If it had been a jury trial and I was on the jury I would have definitely found him guilty of murder because I also believe he knew it was Reeva and that the imaginary intruder was exactly that .....imaginary .
I keep trying to respect the verdict ( without agreeing with it ) as the judge is eminently more qualified that me .
I also don't believe his protestations of true love and grief for Reeva . Most of his courtroom semantics smacks of self pity and self preservation . However it would be incredible if he didn't genuinely regret his actions and am sure if he could turn the clock back that he wouldn't shoot Reeva.
The only time we will know for sure that we are seeing the real emotions of OP will be if the judge hands down a suitable custodial sentence .
It is such a shame his phone left the scene as I still have a feeling there was something on it that may have made a big difference to the result of the trial ,however we will know now .
JMOO

I have a different theory about Culpable Homicide. And if Oscar gets a non-custodial sentence with a lifetime ban on owning firearms, it will be the icing on the cake. I thought this was on the cards for some time, but Nel was showing his talons in sentencing, so maybe Masipa daren't.

If Oscar had been acquitted altogether, the State would have appealed for sure. CH is a competent verdict & makes an appeal very difficult to imagine. I would say putative private defence + CH is a dream result, just what the Pistorius doctor would have ordered, provided of course there isn't a heavy sentence attached. Considering what really happened IMO he couldn't have hoped for better.

 

[james83]

Interesting

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Barry Bateman
‏@barrybateman
#OscarPistorius high-security single cell earmarked for the athlete - but which high-profile inmate could be his neighbor? EWN tomorrow. BB

 

[Lux et Veritas]

want to read this, love your posts
but this RED is really annoying and harsh on the eyes !
sorry !!

Hi, Cloen.

I was trying to contrast my comments to the rest of the text but I guess the red is quite RED! LOL

I toned it down a bit, so hope it's better.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-10-Day-47-sentencing&p=11105212#post11105212

 

[foxbluff]

If she gives him any prison time, say 8 years, he can apply for parole after serving half the sentence, so he could be out in 4.

If she gives him, say 8 years with 4 suspended, that would mean he'd serve 4 years, get out of prison, but if he reoffends during the next 4 years, he'd have to go back to prison and serve out the remainder of his sentence.

Gosh, by the time we're finished with this trial I think I'll put a brass plate out the front of the house and charge visitors to walk in the door.

:floorlaugh:

Oh what the heck, I say go for it !! :floorlaugh:

Barring that, at the least, you should find another juicy SA murder case to follow so all this newfound legal knowledge doesn't go to waste.

 

[geevee]

Very interesting - I read that silence differently - as in, he was thinking to himself - 'why didn't she say anything' - and overcome by the moment.

Something that interests me - and I'd be interested to hear from others - is where OP was actually standing when he shot. I'd always assumed that it was directly in front of the toilet door. But some reconstruction videos I've watched have suggested it was closer to the passageway from the bedroom, and therefore quite a bit away from the door. Anyone able to help me out?

According to the ear witnesses she was screaming, but he could hardly admit that. And that is what I thought was going through his mind during those moments, the sound of her terrified screams, reaching a crescendo as the last shot was fired.

I'm a page or so back so this may have been mentioned in the interim.

 

[foxbluff]

It's all so bizarrely laughable, isn't it?

"Twit" and "prize plonker" are the perfect words for Skunk Lady. :lol:

As far as showers go, built-in shower seats are very common in upscale homes. Extremely unlikely something OP specially installed. (Just like his bullchit French doors claim - they were SO not built to accommodate his disability - anyone see any wheelchair or elevator?)
Seriously, the guy is made of pure 24K LIE from start to finish.

Besides, by his own account of taking baths ONLY, it makes no difference if there's a "pedestal" in his shower! LOL

UBM - Not only that, Lux... the first thing I noticed about his house (which he had built) was that he placed the Master Suite on the 2nd floor !!

 

[Gbtaketwo]

I have a different theory about Culpable Homicide. And if Oscar gets a non-custodial sentence with a lifetime ban on owning firearms, it will be the icing on the cake. I thought this was on the cards for some time, but Nel was showing his talons in sentencing, so maybe Masipa daren't.

If Oscar had been acquitted altogether, the State would have appealed for sure. CH is a competent verdict & makes an appeal very difficult to imagine. I would say putative private defence + CH is a dream result, just what the Pistorius doctor would have ordered, provided of course there isn't a heavy sentence attached. Considering what really happened IMO he couldn't have hoped for better.

Hope your hunch about Masipa is right and that she hands out a stiff sentence
Totally see your viewpoint about op and the families original expectations and no doubt the defence team would have thought this was the best outcome that OP could have hoped for .
However I still have a feeling OP and his family thought he had a self defence acquittal in the bag due to his fame,disability and their money also the fact that his brother was acquitted of his charges over the death of another women may have made them over confident . Could be wrong of course and maybe they are indeed pleased with the judgement under the circumstances.
All this must be absolute torture for Reeva's family .

 

[kittychi]

I might be in the minority here, but during sentencing, I felt like a voyeur for the first time during the trial, and uncomfortable as a result.

I should state that I believe Pistorius shot Reeva in a rage, and must face the consequences of his actions, and these have to be a lengthy stretch, as punishment and deterrent.

However, I take no delight in his likely imprisonment. He is obviously an individual with psychological issues, from a family with an odd dynamic, and is someone who has struggled against significant challenges.

It is sad and depressing that Reeva's life and potential was wasted, yet it is also sad that OP overcame all his challenges only to throw his own life away so pointlessly.

My interest in this case was piqued by the absurd defence given by Pistorius but at the end of it all, I will want no part in the vitriolic celebration of his incarceration.

Great if he goes to jail for awhile, but I have come to expect that the fix is already in for him to have a very soft landing.

He is just another sociopath, really. If he goes to jail, house arrest, or whatever, in the end he will still be a sociopath.

He should be punished in the name of justice for Reeva Steenkamp, her family and her friends.

 

[Fuskier]

FYI
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-debate-on-south-african-prisons-9804292.html

Oscar Pistorius sentencing: Athlete's wealth and notoriety have provoked an overdue debate on South African prisons
by Robyn Leslie, The Independent Sunday 19 October 2014.

Robyn Leslie works at the Wits Justice Project, which investigates remand, detention and miscarriages of justice in South Africa

"Whether Judge Masipa will be influenced by the state of South Africa's correctional facilities depends entirely on the balance of evidence presented in court. But it is safe to say that South Africa's prisons have never been such a popular conversation topic in the country. Oscar Pistorius's wealth and notoriety have provoked a debate that is long overdue" ...

If he is sent to jail, his experience will not be that of other inmates who endure overcrowding, illness and abuse...

"Where does this leave the double-amputee Oscar Pistorius? The reality is that the kinds of violence and environmental risks described above will most probably not affect him. His wealth, status and notoriety almost certainly guarantees that any time he might spend behind bars would be as uneventful as possible" ...

 

[jay-jay]

Hope your hunch about Masipa is right and that she hands out a stiff sentence
Totally see your viewpoint about op and the families original expectations and no doubt the defence team would have thought this was the best outcome that OP could have hoped for .
However I still have a feeling OP and his family thought he had a self defence acquittal in the bag due to his fame,disability and their money also the fact that his brother was acquitted of his charges over the death of another women may have made them over confident . Could be wrong of course and maybe they are indeed pleased with the judgement under the circumstances.
All this must be absolute torture for Reeva's family .

BBM .. and they still haven't got the truth, which is the main thing they wanted to hear from him but I very much doubt they ever will. They know in their hearts what happened though, they're not stupid, Pistorius thought he could fool them and the rest of the world but he can't.

 

[jimmy73]

Well, I do. He is a murdering, lying, cowardly, cheating, selfish arsehole who is a danger to anyone who may find themselves in his vicinity.

I don't disagree with your description of Pistorius at all, but don't feel the hate some do

I'm not judging anyone's reactions on here, especially those who have suffered DV. Was trying to relate my own experience of having watched the trial unfold.

Sorry didn't have time to articulate it better.

 

[emirates1957]

The goat story! A villager steals a goat and has to return it and do something useful for society.

OP guns down his girlfriend in a confined space... (can't return her) but should still do something useful for society.

All through the trial, I felt that Roux minimised what OP did, even though he was there and heard all the lies and different versions that we all did. But he surpassed himself when he said, "There was an accused and a victim, and the accused became a victim." I have no idea how Reeva's family must have felt when they heard that her killer was now a victim.

ETA - Internet trolls face up to two years in jail under new laws

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29678989

The law is an *advertiser censored*. You can be jailed for offensive tweets, and if you kill someone, maybe some light cleaning duties.

Sorry I think I have been misunderstood. I am on the same page as you. Somebody asked if they should listen to Roux. My thoughts were that it was a negative and not to bother, with his disgusting references to goats, just wanted to clarify.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

BBM .. and they still haven't got the truth, which is the main thing they wanted to hear from him but I very much doubt they ever will. They know in their hearts what happened though, they're not stupid, Pistorius thought he could fool them and the rest of the world but he can't.

It is sad the full truth has eluded them ,lets hope some sort of justice is dished out.
Do you think that in the very beginning they thought it could have been an accident ?

 

[BritsKate]

Does anyone think that in prison OP will become a model inmate or will he continue to be the Victim? I wonder if all his rage was because he truly isnt a driven by success individual. He wanted the fame and glory being number 1 when he found others were just as wonderful he couldn't handle it. If he was so driven he would have continued to work out through all this and wouldnt have turned into a victim in his own mind. Reeva was rising in her life and career and that is something he can't tolerate no matter who it is. For the defense to say now he is a victim that is true. He has gained success by playing victim all his career. That has been his calling card for so long. He proves it by saying he wasn't disabled while competing but now he can't survive when his strength and character matter. I dont give OP any points for Character. If he stays out of prison Uncle and clan will have to go it alone with this guy. They all relied on his handlers to manage his issues. Good Luck Family u may get more than u bargained for......

RBBM

Based on my experiences, I believe both, as it suits his agenda. Should he be incarcerated, (I'm not convinced) he'll be a model prisoner for jail staff - and more importantly, an eventual parole board. IMO, he is likely to adapt well - quickly determining how he can be helpful towards other inmates. To his friends, family, and the media though he will remain the ultimate victim.

Extreme narcissists often shift gears from visible grandiosity to acting that they are better than others because they suffer more than others. You can see an extreme narcissist who hogs the limelight and credit from achievements and self-praise also getting similar recognition from milking an injury or a seeming misfortune that has occurred to them. Victimized extreme narcissists are on the constant prowl looking for any gullible soul that will believe their version of calamity whether it is real, exaggerated, or fictitious. What they claim that makes their calamity different is that it is worse for them. Beware of this kind of extreme narcissism. It is just as selfish and manipulating as that of a pompous egotist. The moment they see that you don’t “fully” cooperate and act with extreme concern for them, serving and pampering them, they will eliminate you from their list of “loving” folks. They may even badmouth you and gossip or slander you as being selfish and uncaring.

http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2010/03/29/narcissists-who-cry-the-other-side-of-the-ego/

 

[soozieqtips]

Sorry I think I have been misunderstood. I am on the same page as you. Somebody asked if they should listen to Roux. My thoughts were that it was a negative and not to bother, with his disgusting references to goats, just wanted to clarify.

Hi emirates. I know you're on the same page. I was just highlighting how ludicrous Roux's goat example was :smile:

 

[Fuskier]

From Australian Newscorp:
http://www.news.com.au/world/africa...pa-has-tough-job/story-fnh81gzi-1227089252163

Oscar Pistorius murder trial Judge Thokozile Masipa has tough job
October 14, 2014.

"WHEN she was appointed to the Oscar Pistorius murder trial, Judge Thokozile Masipa was handed the toughest job imaginable. It just got tougher.
Any South African judge presiding over a case involving a rich white man is open to allegations of bias or preferential treatment"...

"There is politics involved,” said Dr Llewellyn Curlewis, one of four divisional presidents of the Law Society of South Africa. “Thokozile Masipa can be seen as a member of the current government, and the government policy is to avoid custodial sentences if possible"...

On the other hand, IMO other political influences are also involved i.e. the consequence of Judge Masipa's judicial decisions may influence the opinions of her legal peers and of the black and white communities in SA; justice needs to be seen to be done in this case. I agree with Nel that Community supervision is outrageously inappropriate in this case. The seriousness of OP's crime: the high degree of negligence is best reflected by court ordered punishment of a custodial sentence in a SA prison for a minimum duration of 10 years. My opinion only.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

How about PLOP (Proven Liar Oscar Pistorius)?

Or possibly KOP (Killer Oscar Pistorius)

I could be friends with PLOP.

 

[soozieqtips]

It is sad the full truth has eluded them ,lets hope some sort of justice is dished out.
Do you think that in the very beginning they thought it could have been an accident ?

BIB - Maybe they thought it was an accident up to the moment his phone went walkabouts, which was just a few hours later. We still don't know if Aimee removed anything from Reeva's bag. But we know that a phone, a bag, and a USB drive all held more interest to the convicted killer than telling Reeva's mother her daughter had been killed.

 

[jay-jay]

Hi emirates. I know you're on the same page. I was just highlighting how ludicrous Roux's goat example was :smile:

.. and don't forget his ridiculous 'let him carry water' suggestion :facepalm:

 

[vansleuths]

From Professor Grant below. If on Tuesday, OP is given a jail term, it starts immediately. If OP decides to appeal it, he would most likely get bail but he runs the risk of both the verdict and/or sentence being made more severe. Should be interesting to see how this all plays out on Tuesday.

James Grant ‏@CriminalLawZA Oct 17
@czarkaztik @Bielie47 If sentence is prison, incarceration will start immediately, unless Roux can persuade court to grant a small delay.