Trial Discussion Thread #58 - 14.17.10, Day 47 ~ sentencing~

[Cloen]

Interesting

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Barry Bateman
‏@barrybateman
#OscarPistorius high-security single cell earmarked for the athlete - but which high-profile inmate could be his neighbor? EWN tomorrow. BB

Shame they can't put Schultz in with him
or even Barry Bateman himself. And he can bore Oscar by reading him his book, and he can point out all the inaccuracies in it and tell Bateman what really happened that night....., thinking he was being clever by pointing out where Batman went wrong

........and then all of a sudden Nel appears with a tape recorder in hand telling Oscar:

"I've just recorded your entire confession -This is not good for you Mr Pistorius "


Then follows an application to the Supreme Court to change verdict to what it should have been Murder with Intent

,.....................Mullady :gaah::scared::jail:

 

[jay-jay]

It is sad the full truth has eluded them ,lets hope some sort of justice is dished out.
Do you think that in the very beginning they thought it could have been an accident ?

No, I think they've always thought it was because of a row .. mainly because of what June has said about her concerns about the relationship (because of various things Reeva had said to her about it). Right at the beginning though, they did say they were prepared to forgive OP, mainly because (I think) they thought it was a row that got out of control and that if he came clean about it and just owned up to it, they would be prepared to forgive him .. but because he's not done that, and has lied his way through this, I think that has affected how they think about him (although June does still seem to talk about forgiveness .. but as I see it, it's not actually 'forgiving' him, it's just that she is trying her damnedest not to allow him to destroy her any more than he already has done .. she said that otherwise it will just eat away at her/them and she can't allow that to happen .. I personally don't call that forgiveness, I'm sure there must be a better word for it, but christians do tend to use that word quite a lot, perhaps incorrectly I don't know).

 

[vanatos]

I just saw chris greenlands facebook, he is fairly active in responding to peoples questions.

He also says lol.

I just about died.

 

[ApplesInMyBra]

I must say, being an expat South African now living in the States, I am very deeply embarrassed and disturbed about the whole court proceedings - from the judge that couldn't hear properly who chose to believe a liar, to the translator who got significant things wrong (a kin to the sign language translator at Mandela's funeral), to the police who botched the investigation and the incompetence of most witnesses called by the defense. I cannot bring myself to bear in mind that this is the absolute best that South Africa has to offer. Gerrie Nel, for the most part did an excellent job, but I still think he missed some significant opportunities to prove OP was lying - a good example was when OP testified that he "was.....asking Reeva why she is....calling the police?"

I am just so gobsmacked that here we are, awaiting the sentencing, most of us know what happened that night, but it seems the one person who SHOULD know what happened (Judge Masipa) doesn't!

The only glimmer of hope I have is the fact that masipa actually bothered to ask Nel how much time he recommends. It is clutching straws, sure, but it is the only grain of hope we have to hold on to!

On Tuesday morning, I will get up at 1am local time to hear the outcome of this - I won't be able to sleep anyway.

Hugs to all of you faithful websleuthers!!!

 

[Cloen]

I just saw chris greenlands facebook, he is fairly active in responding to peoples questions.

He also says lol.

I just about died.

he's a character isn't he !!
doubt he has much faith in Masipa any more than he did for the Verdict

 

[Cloen]

oops duplicate

 

[OZe]

BBM

1. :happydance:

2. May be this is charism?

Good to see you're happy!

Nel definitely has charisma: a sharp-witted, very human being. Unlike the whining marshmallow to his left.

 

[seattlechiquita]

Great if he goes to jail for awhile, but I have come to expect that the fix is already in for him to have a very soft landing.

He is just another sociopath, really. If he goes to jail, house arrest, or whatever, in the end he will still be a sociopath.

He should be punished in the name of justice for Reeva Steenkamp, her family and her friends.

Bravo. Thanks for calling him exactly what he is. A sociopath. I wish him nothing but screams, pain,and insomnia. In jail, grabbing his stumps crying in a corner at night. Hope he never has a moments rest. And that will only happen in jail, because outside he will continue to laugh at all.

 

[WilliamMunter]

RBBM

Based on my experiences, I believe both, as it suits his agenda. Should he be incarcerated, (I'm not convinced) he'll be a model prisoner for jail staff - and more importantly, an eventual parole board. IMO, he is likely to adapt well - quickly determining how he can be helpful towards other inmates. To his friends, family, and the media though he will remain the ultimate victim.


http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2010/03/29/narcissists-who-cry-the-other-side-of-the-ego/

I always love your posts BritsKate and this is no exception. Brilliant.

That narcissism quote is absolutely spot on. I'm still flabbergasted as to how and why the Westkoppies psychs missed the diagnosis. I have a psychiatrist friend who works with some really high profile convicted criminals and I remember asking him at the beginning of Pistorius's assessment (when I first got really interested in the trial) if there was any way Pistorius could conceal anything. He said that it was extremely unlikely but he would have to be examined and observed over a decent period of time. As we have all wondered here, being an outpatient with a seemingly limited total exam period, and having an aunt who could have well coached him, he may have just got lucky.

I also wonder how much emphasis was placed on determining all psychological problems as the emphasis was on GAD. I will have to recheck the objectives of the referral.

I will catch up with my friend in a few weeks and will be interested in his opinion.

 

[JudgeJudi]

BIB, in this scenario, with an original 8 year sentence, 4 years suspended, 4 years would be real jail time, but out in 2 with good behaviour.

I'm not sure that's right but I'm not qualified to answer this. Maybe mrjitty could help out.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

No, I think they've always thought it was because of a row .. mainly because of what June has said about her concerns about the relationship (because of various things Reeva had said to her about it). Right at the beginning though, they did say they were prepared to forgive OP, mainly because (I think) they thought it was a row that got out of control and that if he came clean about it and just owned up to it, they would be prepared to forgive him .. but because he's not done that, and has lied his way through this, I think that has affected how they think about him (although June does still seem to talk about forgiveness .. but as I see it, it's not actually 'forgiving' him, it's just that she is trying her damnedest not to allow him to destroy her any more than he already has done .. she said that otherwise it will just eat away at her/them and she can't allow that to happen .. I personally don't call that forgiveness, I'm sure there must be a better word for it, but christians do tend to use that word quite a lot, perhaps incorrectly I don't know).

Thanks for your reply . I always feel so sad when I see Reevas parents and family and wish as much peace as is possible following such a tragedy. There composure during all this has been amazing .
It is not surprising that Reeva seemed to be such a lovely person .

 

[vansleuths]

I'm not sure that's right but I'm not qualified to answer this. Maybe mrjitty could help out.

Could you please let me know which part do you think is incorrect?

1. JM prescribes 8 year sentence, 4 years suspended.

2. OP would then serve 4 years in jail. The 4 year suspended sentence would only come into effect after he is on parole. If during his parole, he breaks the law, they could haul him back to prison to serve out the remaining 4 years of his suspended sentence.

3. In his original 4 year prison term, OP could potentially be out after serving half his sentence assuming the parole board approves it. Thus 2 year term.

 

[jilly]

I'm not sure that's right but I'm not qualified to answer this. Maybe mrjitty could help out.

Where I live, the Judge will say # of yrs of imprisonment and don't get excited yet because then it will be ordered that this sentence is to be suspended provided the convicted person obeys a list of conditions under the supervision of a probation officer.
If this is the case in SA, then I would suspect that at least 2 of the conditions would be no alcohol and guns. Here the Order would usually say that the convicted person have gainful employment, although I don't know what Oscar would do in this case. Uncle Arney to the rescue?

 

[ApplesInMyBra]

Thanks for your reply . I always feel so sad when I see Reevas parents and family and wish as much peace as is possible following such a tragedy. There composure during all this has been amazing .
It is not surprising that Reeva seemed to be such a lovely person .

Me too, I feel a deep sympathy for June and Barry, but I know for a fact that time won't heal the wounds. Time will teach you how to live with the loss, but not make it better by any stretch. I know because I've lost two siblings, and I've seen first hand what it does to the parents.

 

[emirates1957]

Hi emirates. I know you're on the same page. I was just highlighting how ludicrous Roux's goat example was :smile:

Thanks for that...I am really hopeless with expressing myself via emails (old school).

Love your posts.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Oscar Pistorius has had 30% of the limelight taken away from him by Mikey Schultz

“Schultz stormed onto the chart yesterday with a whopping 30% of the Oscar coverage,” said Return on Innovation Africa (ROI) managing director Tonya Khoury today.

Khoury, meanwhile, said its figures show the public and the media across the globe were rife with speculation on the outcome of Pistorius’ sentencing.

“By an enormous majority, social networks particularly are calling for jail time,” she said.

According to a graph, ROI determined that 65.5% of people wanted Pistorius to be jailed, and 18.58% wanted him to get house arrest.

Another 9.76% of people wanted Pistorius to be given community service, and 6.15% wanted him to be fined.

http://www.citypress.co.za/news/mikey-schultz-steals-oscar-pistorius-spotlight/

I think the results of the poll are very comforting, but OP will be very unhappy when he reads this. Oh, wait ... he doesn't read the media does he?

If he thinks for one moment, at any time in the future, he can evenly vaguely think he's special and will be treated accordingly, I think he's going to be in for a very rude shock. More likely he'll be singled out for special treatment.

What on earth is he going to do when he gets "startled" without his gun, run and hide in the closet and call Aimee? What he does if he's out on the streets and is startled is a scenario I'd rather not think about. I guess he'll be living in terror a lot of the time no matter where he is.

Remember when he was testifying about walking slowly up the corridor to the bathroom and was terrified. I nearly fell off my chair laughing when he said he thought someone might come out and choke him. By the same token, are we meant to infer that he thought the intruder wasn't armed?

After what happened with the ammunition charge being dismissed by Masipa, and once he's served his time with or without a featherduster, he'll always be able to access a gun and if he gets caught all he has to say is he's taking it to the police for his uncle, friend, whoever, who happened to leave it in the car or some other preposterous excuse.

 

[JudgeJudi]

BBM .. and they still haven't got the truth, which is the main thing they wanted to hear from him but I very much doubt they ever will. They know in their hearts what happened though, they're not stupid, Pistorius thought he could fool them and the rest of the world but he can't.

You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Could you please let me know which part do you think is incorrect?

1. JM prescribes 8 year sentence, 4 years suspended.

2. OP would then serve 4 years in jail. The 4 year suspended sentence would only come into effect after he is on parole. If during his parole, he breaks the law, they could haul him back to prison to serve out the remaining 4 years of his suspended sentence.

3. In his original 4 year prison term, OP could potentially be out after serving half his sentence assuming the parole board approves it. Thus 2 year term.

As per your earlier post:

"BIB, in this scenario, with an original 8 year sentence, 4 years suspended, 4 years would be real jail time, but out in 2 with good behaviour".

 

[vansleuths]

As per your earlier post:

"BIB, in this scenario, with an original 8 year sentence, 4 years suspended, 4 years would be real jail time, but out in 2 with good behaviour".

If he gets 4 years of real jail time, would he not be out in 2 years?

Many legal experts are saying that OP would have to serve half his sentence and he would then be out assuming he behaved properly in prison. It's at this point that his 4 year suspended sentence would begin, ie while he is at home.

 

[JudgeJudi]

From Australian Newscorp:
http://www.news.com.au/world/africa...pa-has-tough-job/story-fnh81gzi-1227089252163

Oscar Pistorius murder trial Judge Thokozile Masipa has tough job
October 14, 2014.

"WHEN she was appointed to the Oscar Pistorius murder trial, Judge Thokozile Masipa was handed the toughest job imaginable. It just got tougher.
Any South African judge presiding over a case involving a rich white man is open to allegations of bias or preferential treatment"...

"There is politics involved,” said Dr Llewellyn Curlewis, one of four divisional presidents of the Law Society of South Africa. “Thokozile Masipa can be seen as a member of the current government, and the government policy is to avoid custodial sentences if possible"...

On the other hand, IMO other political influences are also involved i.e. the consequence of Judge Masipa's judicial decisions may influence the opinions of her legal peers and of the black and white communities in SA; justice needs to be seen to be done in this case. I agree with Nel that Community supervision is outrageously inappropriate in this case. The seriousness of OP's crime: the high degree of negligence is best reflected by court ordered punishment of a custodial sentence in a SA prison for a minimum duration of 10 years. My opinion only.

With the severe overcrowding in SA prisons I can understand trying to avoid custodial sentences if possible. There are many people serving time for offences other than violence and many others who have not killed anybody. No doubt there are many from these two groups alone who would be suitable candidates.

However does Curlewis or the government believe a non-custodial sentence is appropriate where

• an innocent, unarmed person confined inside a tiny room is killed by a person using a powerful firearm
• a person uses ammunition designed to cause maximum physical damage
• a person was not found to be suffering from psychological incapacity
• a person could not claim self-defence as there was no imminent threat
• a person denied it was an involuntary action, and
• according to the judgment the person used excessive force by firing 4 shots

I think not.