Trial Discussion Thread #58 - 14.17.10, Day 47 ~ sentencing~

[Greater Than]

first shot... maybe at this point arguable the intention was to shoot, but not kill. [panic/startle/scare/injure etc]
more difficult to argue away the intention to kill didn't then emerge... after shot one... or after shot two... or after shot three?

into that space, do you think four shots is not an intention to kill? how many more would it take for clear, provable intention, 6? 8? 10?

it also interests me that if there was no intention to kill, what was the thinking/intention around ceasing to shoot?

Even OP's own defense team knew four rounds indicate clear intent. That's why Roux tried to argue double taps.

 

[sleuth-d-]

As a mental exercise I have often tried to predict what the judge's verdict would have been if instead of using a hand gun, Pistorius had used a bazooka, fired into the toilet and blown the side of the building off. Still culpable homicide?

was there a crack in the wood that ran through the rocket hole in the door?

 

[Fuskier]

I'm trying to write quickly on my phone but here a few quick points about the Pistorius siblings latest interviews. Three!

Will review again and if we have time before sentencing, discuss in greater detail.

1. Obvious attempt at reputational management and public relations. Control the narrative, control the court of public opinion.

2. The family and their press agent chosen three press agencies to peddle their side of the story. This means they want the headlines and the coverage spread. Maximum 'sympathetic' coverage, photogenic *sad* faces of Oscar Pistorius' proxy.

3. I have a PR friend that, with the defence team, played the public perception of an embezzler/corruption case (and other charges) reworking profile of the accused into a modern day altruistic Robin Hood. Reputational management with high profile long wallet criminal clients is here to stay and it's a moral vacuum and growth industry.

4. This is the family who reportedly paid tens of thousands to fly in UK PR maven Stuart Higgins to work on Pistorius image, probably while the victim's body was cooling in the morgue.

5. Not only Oscar but the whole wealthy clan knows the 'Pistorius' name is on the line. They need to save as much of their image in the public gaze and also their cliquey social circles, expect more of these soft focus interviews and press manipulation.

to be cont. (have to run)

Well articulated IMO. Agree this is the Pistorius PR strategy aimed at influencing public opinion.

 

[jilly]

Well articulated in my opinion. Agree this is the Pistorius PR strategy aimed at influencing public opinion.

I think it's called damage control. They might have got the wrong PR agent.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

I won't lie. I'm getting nervous.

Some people say, oh it's just another celebrity crime trial, big deal.

It's way more than that and it is a big deal.

This trial hasn't just put the spotlight on South Africa - it's a stark, global indictment of society's attitudes toward women, domestic violence, it's values and priorities, the dangerous glorification of sports heroes.

It’s a stark, sad indictment of “justice” systems worldwide - how money and class and race twist and warp and crush equality and genuine justice; such skewed “justice” perpetuates and institutionalizes the oppression and second-class citizenship of women.

The truth begs to be told.

The scales beg to be balanced.

I fear that tomorrow Lady Justice will be all but “mute and invisible” ... just like Reeva Steenkamp.

 

[jilly]

I won't lie. I'm getting nervous.

Some people say, oh it's just another celebrity crime trial, big deal.

It's way more than that and it is a big deal.

This trial hasn't just put the spotlight on South Africa - it's a stark, global indictment of society's attitudes toward women, domestic violence, it's values and priorities, the dangerous glorification of sports heroes.

It’s a stark, sad indictment of “justice” systems worldwide - how money and class and race twist and warp and crush equality and genuine justice; such skewed “justice” perpetuates and institutionalizes the oppression and second-class citizenship of women.

The truth begs to be told.

The scales beg to be balanced.

I fear that tomorrow Lady Justice will be all but “mute and invisible” ... just like Reeva Steenkamp.

It is a big deal. Maybe it's time that verbal abuse should be considered as a form of abuse and not "ups and downs in a relationship".
If anything, perhaps this trial can show other women that they are being controlled and it can escalate. I dunno. Something needs to be learned from this.

 

[Estelle]

Petitioning Oscar Pistorius' Defense and All Humanity...

"Stand with me for Oscar Pistorius. Show the world that our society is governed by compassion and humanity, not retribution and hatred."

456 Supporters

http://www.change.org/p/oscar-pisto...&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=share_petition

 

[jilly]

Petitioning Oscar Pistorius' Defense and All Humanity...

"Stand with me for Oscar Pistorius. Show the world that our society is governed by compassion and humanity, not retribution and hatred."

456 Supporters

http://www.change.org/p/oscar-pisto...&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=share_petition

:gaah: OMG who are these 456. (rhetorical ?)
Need I say..... what compassion and humanity did he show Reeva.

 

[Estelle]

Awaiting Oscar Pistorius Sentencing, South Africa Wrangles Over Complex Issues

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/21/world/africa/oscar-pistorius-sentencing-south-africa.html?_r=0

 

[JudgeJudi]

I guess these interviews are with friendly journos who didn't end up in any black books*, which makes them worth little in terms of being candid. Ask them about Babyshoes, cell phone data wiping, hand bag swiping, all the stories about their brother's past behaviour ... none of those questions will be asked I am sure. Which really means it's just PR. As mentioned above, are they aware of how badly they come across to most people? I don't think they can be or they would keep a low profile at this point in time. Anyone have any ideas on why they might be doing this now, the day before his sentencing?

* Robyn Curnow has been pro-Pistorius in every segment I've ever seen her in, along with Kelly Phelps.

I think it's a pathetic and feeble attempt at damage control. I really believe they're worried about how the vast majority everywhere in the world have turned against OP and not holding back in the slightest about their feelings. They just don't or refuse to acknowledge this publicly.

There are none so blind as those that will not see.

“No man is rich enough to buy back his past.” (Oscar Wilde)

 

[homegirl]

Oooooh...isn't Photoshop wonderful?

AlexUK, your comment got me thinking. I feel like eradicating Oscar from every photo he was ever in with Reeva, to take her back from that monster, and to replace him with the people who really love Reeva. That is the beauty of Photoshop and, yes, it is wonderful. The composites I did were from the article that jay-jay posted upthread (thanks jay-jay.) There is another photo which just irks the carp out of me every time I see it. It is the one at an event where Reeva wore the fringed dress and it is next on my hit list. Was that taken at the sports awards they went to on the most unfortunate day in Reeva's short life, the day they met?

It makes me mad that the daily mail thought it necessary to include shots of OP in an article in which Reeva's sister is honoring her and telling the world that she believes OP murdered her sister. It made me feel a little bit better to cut him out of at least one of them.







http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rs-asks-disabled-people-softer-sentences.html

 

[Estelle]

I think it's a pathetic and feeble attempt at damage control. I really believe they're worried about how the vast majority everywhere in the world have turned against OP and not holding back in the slightest about their feelings. They just don't or refuse to acknowledge this publicly.

There are none so blind as those that will not see.

“No man is rich enough to buy back his past.” (Oscar Wilde)

I agree with you JJ. Propaganda and distraction. It is all over twitter!

 

[Estelle]

Justice For Reeva and 4 others follow
Loo ‏@sparkleyloo 6m6 minutes ago

Some are hoping for a verdict that takes #OscarPistorius' safety into consideration.
I'm hoping for a sentence that focuses on womens' safety.

I would hate to be a woman in South Africa unless they begin to give harsh punishment to men who are violent and abusive to women!

 

[Estelle]

AlexUK, your comment got me thinking. I feel like eradicating Oscar from every photo he was ever in with Reeva, to take her back from that monster, and to replace him with the people who really love Reeva. That is the beauty of Photoshop and, yes, it is wonderful. The composites I did were from the article that jay-jay posted upthread (thanks jay-jay.) There is another photo which just irks the carp out of me every time I see it. It is the one at an event where Reeva wore the fringed dress and it is next on my hit list. Was that taken at the sports awards they went to on the most unfortunate day in Reeva's short life, the day they met?

It makes me mad that the daily mail thought it necessary to include shots of OP in an article in which Reeva's sister is honoring her and telling the world that she believes OP murdered her sister. It made me feel a little bit better to cut him out of at least one of them.


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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rs-asks-disabled-people-softer-sentences.html

These photos are lovely...I would love you to photoshop the one where Reeva is wearing her favourite dress - the pink one with the fringe.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Re BIB - can anyone recall what was the wooden carving about women that was part of the upper door frame in either Henke or Arnold Pistorius' house? It was mentioned in articles very early on in the piece and I was actually looking for it a few days ago as it seemed relevant to something that was being discussed. It was apparantly a big timber beam that had carved in/on it something about women being the root of all problems or 'frailty thy name is woman' or something really weird like that. It sounded creepy and strange beyond the misogyny- who would want that in their house? People who also like stuffed animal heads and wives from Stepford?

More of the story is contained in the link.

“In 1844, Carel August Pistorius, one of five brothers who came out from Germany, bought land and built a farmhouse on the south bank of the Vaal River. He called it Maccauvlei.

This formidable character had a particular mistrust of women and cheques. His mistrust of women evinced by the fact that into his heavy wooden front door were carved the words 'Women Deceiveth Ever'."

Exactly 170 years later, Oscar Pistorius -- who may be descended from one of Carel's four brothers -- stood in the dock of the Pretoria High Court, defending himself against a murder charge after shooting through the wooden toilet door in his Pretoria townhouse”.

http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/20...y-had-issues-involving-wooden-doors---in-1844

 

[jilly]

I think it's a pathetic and feeble attempt at damage control. I really believe they're worried about how the vast majority everywhere in the world have turned against OP and not holding back in the slightest about their feelings. They just don't or refuse to acknowledge this publicly.

There are none so blind as those that will not see.

“No man is rich enough to buy back his past.” (Oscar Wilde)

I agree. This has evolved beyond their comfort zone plus, it's a slight against their status, as well as Oscar's.

"Never tell the truth to people who are not worthy of it.”
― Mark Twain

 

[JudgeJudi]

I'm very broad -minded too Bystander. But I wonder if it's part of the evangelical church they belong to and it's SO convenient to appear as so loving, caring, supportive.

An aside - watching Carl I wonder if he has something he feels he needs to hide. That's a very macho crowd he runs with over there and maybe he can't really be himself.

As I mentioned yesterday, if you look at all his tweets and photos, there's never been a mention of a girlfriend or a photo of one.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Some of the pictures that OP and Aimee have taken together look more like a picture for a couple announcing their engagement than a brother and sister posing together. For example:

link for photo: http://slimcelebrity.com/celebrity-...t/oscar-pistorius-sister-aimee-pistorius-pic/

Sorry Mods, not sure how to do it as a thumbnail.

I have a framed photo of my parents on the occasion of their 40th wedding anniversary which is absolutely identical. You can't help but wonder ...

 

[JudgeJudi]

I disagree. I think that Aimee is a lot smarter, more shrewd, than she lets on that she is. I think she learned all of the same behavior that her brothers did, she just uses her being a woman to her advantage.

MOO

I have a different view. Being the youngest in the family and without their natural parents around, I think she’s been unduly influenced by her brothers' thoughts, attitudes towards life and recklessness. I think she’s extremely naive and will accept what they tell her, even if she has doubts. She doesn’t seem to have a mind of her own. Even her tweets are mostly sayings, not her thoughts. I think she has a lot more intelligence than her brothers but I don't think she's shrewd.

That said, for the life of me I can’t understand how she could have portrayed Reeva in that documentary. There’s something about her that I just can’t put my finger on.

 

[cottonweaver]

As I mentioned yesterday, if you look at all his tweets and photos, there's never been a mention of a girlfriend or a photo of one.

The whole family......secrets and lies? Desperate attempts to keep these hidden leads to downfall?

And re.Carl - if correct- unnecessary lies at that.