Trial Discussion Thread #59 - 14.21.10, Day 48 ~ sentencing~

[Deleted member 102539]

The dust is settled. It’s finally over (at least for the time being).

How do I feel?

Honestly, little more than incredibly, profoundly SAD.

Yes, tearfully sad.

While I, along with millions of others, am merely a long-distance observer, I still feel a powerful sense of loss.

No rational, well-adjusted person can take pleasure in the dire misfortunes and destruction of human life, lost human potential, dashed dreams, crushed futures - no matter the cause or circumstances. The human heart naturally gravitates toward hope, love, the individual and common good. It’s the only way we survive and thrive. I may be passionate, often opinionated, sometimes very angry when discussing this case, but I take no delight in human misery. The destruction of one of us makes us all LESS.

I grieve the loss, the potential, the glittering future of the warm, generous, intelligent, loving Reeva Steenkamp, her family’s shattered lives and lost happiness. A million stories are her story. It breaks my heart on a personal level, as I could have easily been one of those stories.

But if I’m honest, I also grieve the loss of what was once the best of Oscar Pistorius, what he once was, his lost innocence, the best of what he represented, the lives he touched, the hope he did indeed inspire, the great causes he might have championed after his athletic career. No one can ever take away his dedication, his hard work, his successes, his medals, his good deeds. Now just memories.

A rising star, snuffed out.
A blazing star, burnt out.
Two lost lives.
What could have been.

Yes, Oscar will pay dearly for his crime.
But I sincerely take no joy.

Thank you! Could be my own words. Especially the word "sad".

 

[Paul_1900]

Pandax and mrjitty,

Reading your posts is like watching a tough six-setter between Federer and Nadal. Enthralling, grueling and exhausting. Just when one seems to have the perfect lob a volley shoots back across the court. I, for one, am enjoying it and hope neither of you retires frustrated or hurt. Thanks for your insights and commitment, Three set all; who'e to serve?

:deepbreaths::deepbreaths:

Couldn"t agree more . . enthralling and breathtaking . .Please don't stop discussion. It is SO helpful to us laypeople - though I am not always sure whether I get ALL the true meaning and fine details. HAHA

On a sidenote to OZe. Great pleasure to read all your posts, beautifully written, on the spot, with a loveable poetic touch. You could be a professional writer - are you ?

 

[Susza]

Hi,

just popping in . .

VERY SPECIAL THANKS to all users who contributed to the legal aspects of this case. It's so mindwarping that I don't dare to get involved, so I read all these brilliant posts with much respect and admiration.

YOU ARE AMAZING !!!

:fireworks:

You are so right, Paul! But you forgot: You belong to this amazing crowd here!

 

[Estelle]

Quote Originally Posted by foxbluff View Post

Imho, Oscar used to have the greatest of smiles... those kind that reach the eyes and light up the whole face. I used to try to pinpoint when it was that Oscar stopped really smiling. I couldn't pin it down exactly, but strongly suspect the way he caused himself to lose ST might have been a big part of it. I'm of the opinion that he actually loved (in his own way) her and vice versa. And, I think they both still hurt from it.

I agree with you that they loved each other:

Just watch this video of them in the Seychelles in September, 2012:

[video=youtube;ZWLGzXw6NbM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWLGzXw6NbM[/video]

But their love turned to hate! You can only really hate someone when you have loved them.

IMO he became involved with Reeva on the rebound of feeling rejected by Sam with Quentin and her feeling rejected by him when she heard he took Reeva to the Sports Awards. I think he only really took Reeva to the Awards Night to make Sam jealous and to pay her back from going away with Quentin. That same day he had confronted Quentin at the race day. It was far too early for him to get involved with Reeva emotionally or seriously.

 

[minor4th]

I will try. Obviously a defendant can appeal a verdict if wrongly convicted. It is more difficult for the state to appeal a verdict. There is obviously an issue of double jeopardy. However if a judge makes an error on a matter of law, the state can appeal.

But as the 1982 Seekoei case held, if there is a competent verdict, the state cannot appeal. This means that if the charge was murder and the verdict was a lesser charge of culpable homicide, that is a competent verdict and the state cannot appeal the acquittal of the charge of murder.

Had Pistorius been acquitted altogether, the state could have appealed if there were an error of law. What James Grant is saying is that the state can petition the constitutional court to appeal against Seekeoi and then appeal the Pistorius verdict at the Supreme Court of Appeal.

Does this make sense? It all reminds me of the very old tv comedy series called "Soap". Confused?

Sounds like it will be very difficult for state to appeal. Seems like an extreme longshot to first get a 1982 case overturned. Thanks for the info.

 

[Estelle]

Yes. It seems so.

She clearly missed out a whole part of the putative private defence inquiry, and substituted a completely different test.

I sometimes feel that Masipa could have been busy so left it up to Henzen-du-Toit and maybe the other Assessor to write the verdict as it was so amateurish.

 

[Paul_1900]

I just remembered the occasion when Nel was trying to get OP to explain why he was getting all emotional (after being asked a difficult question) and OP wouldn't answer. When Nel pressed him for a response, Masipa jumped in and said it wasn't 'fair' to ask him that, as he'd been emotional throughout, so Nel had to let it go. Masipa couldn't stand to see OP showing any discomfort.

Ya. At that time I assumed she didn't want to give his emotional breakdowns too much space in court. On some occasions I liked her cutting it short. Now I've learned she inhaled every sob and tear as true emotions. It's so naive from a woman growing up in a township. I'd never expected this lack of wisdom and incapability to see through. How could she ever be fooled by this ????

 

[minor4th]

I sometimes feel that Masipa could have been busy so left it up to Henzen-du-Toit and maybe the other Assessor to write the verdict as it was so amateurish.

Do you know what her primary language is? Is it English? I have wondered this a number of times throughout the trial.

 

[Ginro]

So what's the betting that OP still has it with him?

Unless they electricity sockets in each cell, which isn't very likely, he might have a problem recharging it.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

Magistrate tells ‘dog’ to date ’16-valve girls’
http://www.citypress.co.za/news/magistrate-tells-horny-dog-date-16-valve-girls/

And we wonder why misogyny and patriarchy are so prevalent in SA.

The courts help reenforce and institutionalize it.

 

[IndianSummer]

thanks for posting, very informative

"There are also job opportunities, like working in the textile or furniture workshops or gardening."

I suggest they make him work there, then put a specially designed tag on the products . . it would sell like crazy I'm afraid. So there is ONE of MANY great ways he can " pay back to society" :crazy:

He's good at cleaning up, covering up, rearranging things....
You know 10 months is a good chunk of time in a confined area.

Karma is just getting started too I bet...
JMO

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I agree with you that they loved each other:

Just watch this video of them in the Seychelles in September, 2012:

[video=youtube;ZWLGzXw6NbM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWLGzXw6NbM[/video]

But their love turned to hate! You can only really hate someone when you have loved them.

IMO he became involved with Reeva on the rebound of feeling rejected by Sam with Quentin and her feeling rejected by him when she heard he took Reeva to the Sports Awards. I think he only really took Reeva to the Awards Night to make Sam jealous and to pay her back from going away with Quentin. That same day he had confronted Quentin at the race day. It was far too early for him to get involved with Reeva emotionally or seriously.

bbm

No, I never would think, Samantha hates OP. She loves him too much and therefore wept as a witness, overwhelmed by her unhappy (dangerous) love. He is offended and hurt and doesn't understand his blame to the separation. IMO

 

[minor4th]

I am sure this has been posted somewhere in these threads already but I'm seeing it for the first time and am interested in reading word for word:

South Africa: OSCAR PISTORIUS FULL JUDGMENT (PDF)

 

[Paul_1900]

It means that if Masipa were very clever, rather than its opposite, and she wanted the best outcome for Oscar, with the most difficulty in it being disturbed by an appeal from the state, this would be her chosen verdict. IN MY OPINION. Also imo it would have been a non-custodial sentence until Nel came in hard during sentencing. Pistorius got the perfect result. Hardly surprising that Uncle accepts it, but somehow he didn't look surprised.

Sadly you may be very right . . But was it just because she was so taken in by him - or do you suspect something going on behind closed doors (Ughh, what a term . . forever spoiled) in the sense of "we cannot crash the picture of our SA golden boy" ?? On another take . . "it cannot be as it should not be"

Don't know if you get my meaning. For the last part I was thinking about all these cases of DV and rape, where the offender is always seen as "such a nice guy, he is not able to do something so awful"

It's still an ongoing question in my mind. What was driving her to do what she did ?

 

[Estelle]

Do you know what her primary language is? Is it English? I have wondered this a number of times throughout the trial.

That's an interesting point.

"The Oscar Pistorius trial – and the language Apartheid it reveals

But when we consider what this really tells us about our country, the answer actually lies in language.

There was simply no question that this trial would be heard in any language other than English. Right from the very beginning, it was simply assumed by everyone that English it would be. And so it was proven. And yet, no one actually acting in this trial has English as their first language. Judge Masipa doesn’t; both Roux and Gerrie Nel seem to speak Afrikaans as a first language. And yet English it is.

It is a strange quirk of our country that very few people have English as their first language, but it is fast removing Afrikaans from our courtrooms. This means that very few people will be tried in the language that speaks to their heart. And while the proceedings are interpreted, we all know that that can come with associated problems. Involving paranoid schizophrenia, sign language, and booing."

http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/opin...e-language-apartheid-it-reveals/#.VEfsOlcgues

 

[Paul_1900]

So the signs outside of the prison state clearly: no cell phones (Aimee!)

Haha, and if you look at the photo of the visitors room, he must feel pretty much at unease, meeting up with family under such circumstances. There is no any privacy at all.

If he had spoken out the truth I'd feel real pity with him. IF . . .

. . . as he didn't I just hope he may grow with the challenges

 

[jay-jay]

O/T Does this website have a conspiracy theory section?, if not it really should, would love to hear people's opinion on the moon landing in particular.

.. ooh yes, love a good conspiracy theory, me! .. and it does require a certain amount of sleuthing too, doesn't it ?

 

[soozieqtips]

No visiting times after 2pm either, according to the signs. Although I wonder if exceptions will be made for OP?

Much as I can't stand him, I hope (for society's sake) that being in jail will humble him somewhat. It will be a whole new life for him inside, and I hope he doesn't waste his less-than-a-year's sentence fretting and seething about the "injustice" he has suffered. I did read that anger management classes were "offered", which means OP has a choice whether or not to attend. That shouldn't be the case. It should be compulsory, given that his anger and aggression was so prevalent in the months leading up to Reeva's death. He has a chance to change, but I wonder if he's just too arrogant to take it.

 

[Paul_1900]

You are so right, Paul! But you forgot: You belong to this amazing crowd here!

HI Susza and all you great members of WS,

heartfelt thanks for the warm welcome !!

I was reading here since April . . finding huge support and so many answers to so many questions. But feeling I would not be able to contribute in an adequate way - partly due to not being a native english speaker - and part of me expecting the trial to be over soon. Oh yeah, what a very bad guess .

This forum is very unique in it's fairness and openess to all minds and opinions. And I always felt a sense of respect and dignity that is rare to find. People expresses so much compassion and true to heart desire to understand . . . very impressing. And I am glad to have joined at last !

:heartbeat:

 

[soozieqtips]

HI Susza and all you great members of WS,

heartfelt thanks for the warm welcome !!

I was reading here since April . . finding huge support and so many answers to so many questions. But feeling I would not be able to contribute in an adequate way - partly due to not being a native english speaker - and part of me expecting the trial to be over soon. Oh yeah, what a very bad guess .

This forum is very unique in it's fairness and openess to all minds and opinions. And I always felt a sense of respect and dignity that is rare to find. People expresses so much compassion and true to heart desire to understand . . . very impressing. And I am glad to have joined at last !

:heartbeat:

BIB - are you sure you're not a native English speaker?? Or are you tailoring your evidence Mr Pistorius?? Joking aside, your writing skills are excellent. There are many many non-native English speakers on this forum, and I've never has any problems understanding their posts. Having members from all over the world is one of the reasons this forum is so interesting :smile: