Trial Discussion Thread #6 - 14.03.13-14, Day 9-10

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Thank you, yet again, for all the updates! :tyou:

So, I have only been able to watch for the last couple of hours, and now they go to lunch. AARRGH! I'll be at work when they return

The blood pictures are not as bad as the words describing them, well, that is coming from someone that has seen a whole lot of murder scene photos. So, take that with a grain of salt. I think any really disturbing photos would be of Reeva.

OP is not retching, he is trying to make himself retch by constantly dry coughing. Just an observation.
 
or did he lock it.. before carrying Reeva downstairs??

does it automatically lock when closed?

I cant think properly. those photos..


Baba said. he was carrying her downstairs with her head hanging over the balustrade... the railings of the stairs. and you can tell . boy can you tell. .
 
honestly, Really, that's what I heard him say.. I haven't got to grips with looking at any one elses transcript..

that has me so baffled and bewildered, I cant even take it IN.

was that what he did when he nipped upstairs when Dr Stipp was trying to revive Reeva?? lock his bedroom door??


god almighty.

I missed that bit.
 
While the court is adjourned for lunch, the defence and OP are back at the door, this time examining the bullet holes.

FWIW
 
I seem to recall from Michael Jackson's Doc's trial, you are supposed to put victim on the floor for CPR?
Indeed...but is that before or after you carry them all over the house? ;)

It just bothers me. A lot. She was rather left like rubbish imo...even though logically I can argue with myself CPR, do not disturb scene, etc...
 
I know we’re past the super-sleuths stage and into the gory blood-soaked rags crime-scene pictures, but:

Gregory (Scotland Yard detective): Is there any other point to which you would wish to draw my attention?
Holmes (Sherlock, no less!): To the curious incident of the dog in the night-time.
Gregory: The dog did nothing in the night-time.
Holmes: That was the curious incident.

(Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Silver Blaze, 1892)

It is with this in mind that I wonder - more in hope than expectation - whether we will soon be moving from "B is for Blood" and “C is for Cricket Bat” to “D is for Dog” in this rather strange trial.

As many will know, Oscar had/has two large and probably quite ferocious dogs (whom we shall hereinafter refer to as “Rover” and “Bruno” in order to preserve their privacy under South African Animal Rights legislation), which were allegedly loose in the Chateau Pistorius yard on the night of the unfortunate demise of Miss Steenkamp.

Since most of the prosecution witnesses so far have been pretty damned useless and have folded up under even gentle questioning from the defence counsel, I feel it is time to up the stakes and bring in the canine witnesses to tell us:
a) what they heard,
b) whether they barked during the night,
c) whether either one of them has a high-pitched bark that could have been construed to be a female yelp,
and
d) whether they have a history of being silenced by ladder-carrying burglars bribing them with large pieces of sirloin steak.

I ask this not out of flippancy, but for a pertinent reason.

Whilst I think Oscar is clearly a gung-ho, arrogant a-s-hole and also an extraordinarily troubled young man, I’m not 100% convinced he is guilty of premeditated murder. Pathological stupidity, possibly.

Right now, even if he WERE guilty, the amateurish bungling of the police investigation, the shoddy forensics, and the apathetic pleading of the State’s case by the lead counsel for the prosecution makes me think Oscar may nevertheless very well get a culpable homicide sentence and nothing more.

Now like I said, I don’t know whether this result might be exactly what SHOULD happen, but I would nonetheless very much like to see Oscar Pistorius provide a full and frank explanation of why he imagined a burglar could be climbing up to his open bathroom window under the eyes of two fiercely loyal attack dogs in his garden, without the dogs notifying him – and the entire gated community and most of Pretoria – of the burglar’s presence.

That is what guard dogs DO.

Often they will also bark at squirrels, cats, raccoons, and the paper-boy, but I’m pretty sure they’d bark vigorously at a shifty dude carrying a ladder round to the back of the house at 3 a.m. On the OTHER hand, I’m not quite so convinced they’d react the same way to shouting or an argument going on in the house.

It has already been established, I believe, that Pistorius was not really in a “just-woken-from-deep-sleep, woozy, and massively paranoid” state at this moment, for he has affirmed in his original bail affidavit that in the early morning hours, he “woke up to move a fan from the balcony and to close the sliding doors in the bedroom”.

It was only after performing this action, which to my mind requires the person be pretty much what we humans generally refer to as “awake”, that he says he heard a noise from his bathroom.

Assuming - as we must - that he was more or less compos mentis, why on earth did he immediately believe his dogs had failed him so badly that he needed to go to the bathroom armed with a 9mm?

Did he forget he had two dogs?

Were they in fact (unbeknown to all but Oscar) less-than-useless guard dogs, able to be seduced by any Tom, Dick, and Harry with a lump of red meat or a friendly Labrador b*t*h in heat?

Did he think they had (both) been killed by the alleged shifty intruder (poisoned, perhaps)?

Or is this just a fundamental weakness in Oscar’s narrative of his trotting off and blowing away whatever “bad guy” was lurking in the bathroom?

Because nobody but a complete klutz – or alternatively someone out of their skull on coke, ‘roids, and bad mescaline (do we have tox screens on OP and RS, by the way?) - would have believed anyone could really be climbing in that window.

So why the hell should WE believe it? At least the story should be examined under the microscope.

I say, put the boerboel* and the bull terrier on the stand!!!!!

P.S. I did actually bring this subject up just over a year ago, HERE:
Oscar Pistorius shoots and kills his girlfriend, charged with murder - Page 51 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

But it’s probably never going to go anywhere.

*”A large, mastiff dog breed from South Africa, bred for the purpose of guarding the homestead” (so you’d kind of expect it to…well…guard, wouldn’t you?)
 
The locked door the witness (col Vanrensburg) went through was NOT the bedroom door, but a door leading to the roof above garage, on which is the jacuzzi. It was not the bedroom door! I don't think they found blood on that roof/jacuzzi area.

So far, all that has been described is blood on the stairway and down the stairs and a bit of blood at the top of the stairs, all would fit Pistorius's description of carrying her down the stairs.

Feel free to completely ignore this commentary!
 
otyikondo;

So happy to see a Sherlock Holmes reference. I literally thought I was watching a reenactment of an episode of Sherlock when Roux was questioning Col about the door yesterday. (Ay yi yi.)

I agree OP's version has many weak areas. Leaving a balcony window/door open is a huge no, no even here, as we all know anyone can and will enter.

Have no idea if he really did think the dogs were gone or pacified. No idea if he really did panic and think there was an intruder. The dogs would have barked before they could be handed a steak though.

I also do not understand carrying Reeva and not getting someone to respond that could help in care for her. That could have been panic though.

The "everything is fine" is not setting right, defense knew that, and am certain instructed him to say it in Court or he knew himself to say it in Court would make it seem like his natural response. It falls flat on me.

Just think those are very weak spots in his version of events, there are more,as we have all discussed.

The fact that Reeva was afraid of him, and his history or psycho gun handling, leads us all to think this was an irrational psychotic act of a man whose anger is out of control.

Interesting trial to say the least.
 
Is it possible the dogs were contained in the backyard, and could not patrol from where the bathroom windows were? And are they bark or attack dogs? Attack dogs don't always bark - biting's more their way of 'warning'.
 
I don't even know if Oscar could have seen if the bathroom window was open or not, with the blinds down - I think I saw blinds somewhere? It is also interesting that he even remembered - apparently immediately on waking - that the window had been left open.

I would like to see if he can recall the open/shut positions of all his windows that night, or if it was just that particular one he noted before going to bed, and if so, why?
 
Lots of complaints again, about the poor translation!

Yes, black garbage bags and towels were translated as clothing. Very different. For a moment I thought Reeva had been undressed. Confusing.
 
Pistorius has dogs, too - Enzo, a black-and-white bull terrier and Silo, a light-brown American pit bull. He explains Silo was a rescue dog, who was locked in a room only two metres by three metres until she was three-and-a-half months old. She had a broken back and is still nervous, even after Pistorius’s care and attention.
Enzo, however, is just mad. As he jumps around outside by the pool Pistorius elects to tell me: ‘The last journalist who came here, he ripped their toe nail off. There was blood everywhere.’ Somehow I don’t think he’s joking.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ol...xclusive-walking-wild-side.html#ixzz2vqE0OXzu
 
well.. at least one puzzle was sort of solved. . I could never work out exactly when or how Oscar gets out the front door after carrying Reeva down the stairs lays her down, and then starts his car up and opens up the doors..

Clarice says her father did this after Oscar asked him to.. to start the car etc.. then she says. Dad said. he'd rather get an ambulance, paramedics.. not a good idea..

I am presuming he started the car.. Standar did, then got a lightbulb moment..

lots of coming and going in the hallway that night!!
 
Is it possible the dogs were contained in the backyard, and could not patrol from where the bathroom windows were? And are they bark or attack dogs? Attack dogs don't always bark - biting's more their way of 'warning'.
We have a boerboel, they are ferocious and extremely territorial. He doesn't bark much at all..we have 3 little warning siren yappers to alert us if anything is amiss. When they bark, he gets up and moves quickly (as quick as his bulk allows lol) to see whats up..rarely making any noise. Id go so far as to say that when he barks, he is just reminding us what he sounds like. Hth!
 
We've got a hiatus approaching...

Debora Patta ‏@Debora_Patta 5m
#OscarTrial Just been informed court will sit until 4 April - then a break for court recess until 11 April and then new dates set
https://twitter.com/Debora_Patta
 
well that would be over easter, that break..
good Friday, easter Saturday, Easter Sunday, and a public hol on the Monday, I imagine..
 
Cloudy rainy day in Pretoria..


Autumn rains.. lucky people.. .
 
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