Trial Discussion weekend Thread #18

[soozieqtips]

Who knows Roux did mention it, so no doubt one of the DT witnesses will say it at some point. Not that it makes any difference whatsoever in the final judgment.

I didn't know Roux claimed OP vomited at the crime scene.

Did he say this at the bail hearing or some other time?

 

[Insp.Dots]

Hi Dots, I think Val was mentioning a tweet about a week before 14th Feb, where one of Reeva's pals had said, "I want an Oscar" (meaning the award)

Reeva replied, " ok, but you can't have mine" (joking, taking the meaning as HER bloke)

A random girl then replied to Reeva, saying, "You think he's YOURS?? Oh dear, Reeves, Reeves, Reeves . . . QUOTE]

Hiya, yes thanks, I read through Vals tweet too quickly. It was other tweets I was referring to. Sorry:truce:

 

[Insp.Dots]

I didn't know Roux claimed OP vomited at the crime scene.

Did he say this at the bail hearing or some other time?

He didn't claim anything, just asked one of the witnesses if they had seen OP sick, can't remember word for word. I just remember thinking that he may make more of it another time.

 

[Insp.Dots]

IMO - The police bungling could also have been purposeful to protect a national hero. We have heard plenty of stories of OP's drinking and drama without him being charged with anything.

I'm not sure about anything that has been press led. If you watch the Documentary from dateline, it is quite telling about some media reports and the very early Police investigation with HB. It is one of the few that is unbiased and takes an impartial look on the actual facts.

 

[Interested Bystander]

#OscarTrial Defence also plans on calling neighbor closest to Pistorius who will confirm Oscar's version that he was screaming like a girl

From @DeboraPatta Twitter

I hope Nel gives hime the "third degree" like Roux did to the Prosecution Witnesses. Am I right in thinking this neighbour is a friend of OP's (though I don't know from where I dragged that up). Isn't he the guy who lent OP the ladders?

 

[04009margaret]

Is it from the pic taken at the engagement party? I think, Justin Divaris and Franco's Hougaard may have been in it too?

There was one with Reeva and 3 guys.....can't think where I saw it.....but possibly off one of their Twitter pages as a tribute to RS.

Interesting to note that Oscar was also good friends with Justin and Francois.
It was Justin who set OP up with RS. It will also be interesting to see if he and Sam will give evidence. They did affidavits for BH but according to the media have distanced themselves now.
There is also Alex Pilakoulas another best friend who does seem to be standing by OP, he knew RS well too. He is at the same time friends with Fresco and Lerena. All credit to him for standing by his friend whilst others in the circle have gone the other way. Must make for a lot of awkward moments!

The other thing I don't get is why we didn't see Mark Batchelor, the Quinton guy or any of those allegedly threatened or witness to OP's short fuse.
I am surprised, as there are still reasonable doubts in the case, so why didn't the State make 'extra' sure by putting them on the stand?

It still feels to me like something happened or came out in that penultimate week that we don't know about...........there was a change in the air. IMO

BBM
My understanding, after listening to a lot of legal commentary, is that prior conduct is considered as character testimony, this is not allowed in the SA court system. Legal commentators are very critical of OP & Roux for pleading NG to the extra gun charges as character evidence has come into the trial very cleverly through these charges. Most believe that Roux would have strongly advised OP to plead guilty to these charges.

 

[Viper]

Yes! By just looking at phone records alone, you can't tell what is human interaction and what is an automatic function of the phone.

BUT... the forensic software that they used on all of the devices (phones, ipads, MacBook) captured everything. Literally everything on those devices.

If the Judge sees that there was a GPRS connection at 10pm, all she has to do is look at the data downloads for 10pm for that device and she will see exactly what the phone or ipad was doing at that time.

Even though we saw summaries and only heard a few select texts, all of this information was submitted as evidence and the defense was given all of it too.

BIB Thank you Lisa! This very simple fact is so easy to understand. :smile:

 

[jay-jay]

It was merely Oscar's WhatsApp (internet messaging) account he "couldn't remember" the password for. This app is available on Apple and Android devices.

Ah .. well that makes sense then, that he would conveniently forget his password for the WhatsApp app .. because that is where all the messages between him and Reeva were stored. I usually stay logged into things like that (and things like this forum, etc) but he had obviously logged out for them to have needed his password, in which case it seems like he would log in and out fairly regularly and would actually have known his password. He was definitely trying to hide something (i.e. the messages) by saying he couldn't remember the password.

 

[Insp.Dots]

BBM
My understanding, after listening to a lot of legal commentary, is that prior conduct is considered as character testimony, this is not allowed in the SA court system. Legal commentators are very critical of OP & Roux for pleading NG to the extra gun charges as character evidence has come into the trial very cleverly through these charges. Most believe that Roux would have strongly advised OP to plead guilty to these charges.

Ah, yes that would make sense. Thanks. I saw that with the commentators too and can indeed imagine with his arrogance OP flatly refusing Roux's advice. Could well be his downfall!

 

[Viper]

No clue who he is and I agree that it doesn't necessarily mean anything.

When I originally watched that day I had noticed it and grabbed a screen shot. There is no identifying information about him and no mention of him in testimony, so I just held on to the pic and didn't think much about it. But then a poster here had asked about it today so I passed it along.

It could be nothing at all, maybe a friend, relative, etc.

BIB Somehow I don't think so. Because if that were the case, why is his photo, that specific image, in the State's photo book that they created specifically for the Judge?

If OP murdered Reeva because she learned something that night that would damage OP's Brand (money), then this new man could be at the heart of that. IDK but I can speculate about performance enhancing drugs, sex (bisexual too, sorry. Ricky Martin surprised the heck out of me!)), some crime or wrong doing that Reeva felt crossed the line and she would not keep it secret, etc...

 

[Cherwell]

I hope Nel gives hime the "third degree" like Roux did to the Prosecution Witnesses. Am I right in thinking this neighbour is a friend of OP's (though I don't know from where I dragged that up). Isn't he the guy who lent OP the ladders?

No, I would guess it is Mr Nhlengthwa, who lives next door and who called security that night. I don't know for sure, but assume that it was his house that had lights on.

The neighbour who is OP's friend, who gave a magazine interview (Christo Menelaou) doesn't live next door to OP according to the plan of the estate posted earlier. The other ndns are called Motshuane.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/162790733/What-did-Oscar-Pistorius’-neighbours-hear

 

[Insp.Dots]

Maybe one day Roux will publish a book and include all of OP's notes passed forward during the trial? They are already making a film I believe......
Some things IMO are a step too far, and the fact that a beautiful young woman was taken from her loved ones. She had so much life to live. It is truly tragic.

 

[Viper]

Snipped for space and BBM

Yes!! Agree with all.

I find it interesting that he was standing upstairs, according to Baba's testimony, and did not come down until he saw all of them standing at the doorway. That was his big "oh sh#t" moment.

I missed that! Thanks so much for your post!!!

OP, even after he kills, is a bleeping drama queen! :dramaqueen:

 

[Interested Bystander]

No, I would guess it is Mr Nhlengthwa, who lives next door and who called security that night. I don't know for sure, but assume that it was his house that had lights on.

The neighbour who is OP's friend, who gave a magazine interview (Christo Menelaou) doesn't live next door to OP according to the plan of the estate posted earlier. The other ndns are called Motshuane.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/162790733/What-did-Oscar-Pistorius’-neighbours-hear

Thank you. I think it was Christo Menelaou who lent him the ladders but I wrongly assumed he was a neighbour.

I think this is the post that had logged incorrectly in my memory

Trial Discussion Thread #1 - 14.03.03-06, Day 1-4 - Page 71 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

It is post 1764. by Estelle.

......................................

Estelle where are you? You kept this forum going for a year for which I thank you. I would love to hear what you think of the trial at this moment in time.

 

[nastasya]

It was the WhatsApp password that was "forgotten" not the phone password. WhatsApp is an app that can be used for text messaging without using your cell phone's data allowance.

ETA: As an aside, recently Facebook bought WhatsApp, so its function may change. Facebook says no, though.

Here's the shenanigans with the phone:

1. phone was not turned over
2. whatsapp password was claimed to be forgotten
3. whatsapp only stores backups of messages locally on the phone and only or 7 days

Clearly, this phone is a big problem for the killer. He had somebody remove the phone for a reason.

Internet access at 1:52 am from phone may be key.

It's plausible that killer had a incriminating WhatsApp message, gave the phone to somebody to delete messages, they held the phone and didn't turn it over to police until it was too late to easily recover message history.

 

[steveml]

No, I would guess it is Mr Nhlengthwa, who lives next door and who called security that night. I don't know for sure, but assume that it was his house that had lights on.

The neighbour who is OP's friend, who gave a magazine interview (Christo Menelaou) doesn't live next door to OP according to the plan of the estate posted earlier. The other ndns are called Motshuane.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/162790733/What-did-Oscar-Pistorius’-neighbours-hear

Thanks for the link Cherwell - it sets it out nice n simple. I hadn't seen that before.

:thumb:

 

[Cherwell]

Thank you. I think it was Christo Menelaou who lent him the ladders but I wrongly assumed he was a neighbour.

Well, clearly he is a neighbour, just not next door.

It's a pity they've used such large labels and images on the plan, as they don't show the Stipps' house, for instance. But perhaps they weren't sure where everyone lived.

 

[jay-jay]

Thank you. I think it was Christo Menelaou who lent him the ladders but I wrongly assumed he was a neighbour.

I'm quite interested in the ladders .. in his bail application he says: "There are no burglar bars across the bathroom window and I knew that contractors who worked at my house had left the ladders outside."


So, going by that he says it's ladders which were left by contractors, and yet it now appears someone lent him the ladders? .. what type of contractors were these and what type of work were they doing, because I don't know about anyone else, but if ever I have had a contractor in to do any work on the outside of my house that requires a ladder, they bring their own ladders with them.

Strangely enough, he doesn't even mention the ladders in his Plea Explanation .. which is odd, considering how important he seemed to think they were at the time, when his imaginary intruder got into the house through the bathroom window.

I know some ladders were found outside, bu I personally think he has concocted a bit of a story around them (did he even have contractors working on his house at the time?), and then decided to leave it out in his later document.

 

[Insp.Dots]

Here's the shenanigans with the phone:

1. phone was not turned over
2. whatsapp password was claimed to be forgotten
3. whatsapp only stores backups of messages locally on the phone and only or 7 days

Clearly, this phone is a big problem for the killer. He had somebody remove the phone for a reason.

Internet access at 1:52 am from phone may be key.

It's plausible that killer had a incriminating WhatsApp message, gave the phone to somebody to delete messages, they held the phone and didn't turn it over to police until it was too late to easily recover message history.

Fair assumptions, but why wasn't it read out with the other messages etc when the expert was on the stand?

 

[steveml]

Here's what seems to be the deal with Whatsapp.

Messages can be backed up to iCloud as Whatsapp do not store any message information themselves.

The investigation team needed access to OP's iCloud storage, and to get that you need to log into it via your Apple ID.

The Apple ID is used to access everything you do with Apple (iTunes, iCloud, Apps, Apple Store etc). This is what they needed.

So, it appears the Legal Reporter at eNCA was spot on.


*things were much simpler when we used pen and paper :dunno: