Trial Discussion weekend Thread #24

[minor4th]

They should have taken that into evidence.

I think I remember him mentioning that on the stand. He opened it on some anniversary. But I can't remember what he said about it.

I can't believe they did not collect that as evidence!

 

[Freya1977]

I know that this wasn't addressed to me so I hope you don't mind me butting in here, but, I really think the judge is viewing OP with a lot of charity in her heart for him. I may be wrong but that is the read I am getting from her demeanor and questions.

I believe if she can find any way to lawfully slap OP on the wrist that is what she will do. He was the face of SA for a while and that IMO is going to figure into her decision. I still think that the bar of "reasonable" is going to be lowered due to OP's disability.

JMO

I don't agree, I give her more credit than that. I think she believes he deserves a fair trial, but i don't believe she will be swayed by sympathies or anything else. I believe she will base it on the evidence presented.

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[minor4th]

Much more interesting is that is caused Roux heart palpitations and he grilled witness, photographer about it, who said 'I did not photo this first day as it was not moveable evidence, I concentrated on moveable evidence that could be tampered.'

That's almost laughable that Van Staden's saying he concentrated on evidence that could be moved -- as if none of it was moved before he photographed it

 

[Gavel Rash]

This is also interesting..


'trousers, inside out, and a metal fan, plugged into an extension cord next to an iPad on the floor. Behind the twist of wires, the sliding doors to a balcony stand open, the putty-colored double-layered curtains agape.

BIB THE JEANS ON FLOOR OF BEDROOM ARE INSIDE OUT.

If you had to get your legs on in hurry and this is the way you normally leave them, just like Oscar said he did, then you may be pulling them straight out of pants and pulling them inside out! Also his socks failed to have any blood on the heels of them, the left did not having blood on bottom at all? So how did he not get blood on soles in bathroom?

 

[Gavel Rash]

That's almost laughable that Van Staden's saying he concentrated on evidence that could be moved -- as if none of it was moved before he photographed it

Why would you think they would want to set him up? For what purpose does your conspiracy run to?

 

[minor4th]

I don't agree, I give her more credit than that. I think she believes he deserves a fair trial, but i don't believe she will be swayed by sympathies or anything else. I believe she will base it on the evidence presented.

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I agree with you. She'll be fair and won't be swayed by emotion.

She is being generous or charitable with OP, but there's likely a judge-ly reason for that and not just an emotional reaction. She wants to have a fair trial and make a sound ruling that won't be overturned on appeal - if Oscar is too emotional to continue or too tired to continue, then she has an obligation to call a recess and put a stop to the badgering. She doesn't need to give OP an argument on appeal that he was too tired, confused, emotional to participate fully in his own defense.

 

[sorrell skye]

I can't believe they did not collect that as evidence!

Why would investigators collect Reeva's V-Day gift to OP as evidence?

 

[minor4th]

Why would you think they would want to set him up? For what purpose does not conspiracy run to?

I don't follow your question. Set who up?

 

[Val1]

I would really like to know more about this as well.

The police officer who was also taking pictures when Van Staden was supposed to be alone was Col Motha, but I don't think that's the officer who showed up and was friendly with OP.

The officer in question appears to be a friend of OP's criminal profiler Aunt, or a friend of a friend of her, imo.

http://ewn.co.za/Features/oscarpisto...ve-blog-day-19

"An officer, Labuschagne, came up and introduced himself. He told Pistorius he was friends with a family member of his and that he had nothing to worry about, he would look after him."

http://ewn.co.za/Features/oscarpistorius/Witnesses

 

[minor4th]

Why would investigators collect Reeva's V-Day gift to OP as evidence? How did it play a role in OP shooting & killing her?

Well, if they want to fully investigate the circumstances that led to the killing, you would think they would want to know as much as possible about the relationship. They'd want to read the card from her and see what kind of present she gave him.

But it seems that the investigators and prosecution just ignored any potential evidence that might have undermined the conclusion they jumped to.

 

[Magdalyn]

Maybe it's purse fighting if you're American.

I think the American version would be 'cat fight'.

ETA: I finally had to look up 'spanner'. I'd always gotten the gist, but never looked it up until now. We call it a wrench, and use the phrase almost the same--throw a spanner in the works--throw a wrench in his plans. This case is expanding my vocabulary in ways I hadn't expected.

 

[Carmelita]

I don't agree, I give her more credit than that. I think she believes he deserves a fair trial, but i don't believe she will be swayed by sympathies or anything else. I believe she will base it on the evidence presented.

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I hope that you are right and I am wrong.

 

[Freya1977]

Well, if they want to fully investigate the circumstances that led to the killing, you would think they would want to know as much as possible about the relationship. They'd want to read the card from her and see what kind of present she gave him.

But it seems that the investigators and prosecution just ignored any potential evidence that might have undermined the conclusion they jumped to.

How do we know they didn't? Do we know that? He said he opened it on her birthday so it must have been passed along to him, they may have looked at it before he ever got it...

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[Gavel Rash]

I don't follow your question. Set who up?

The evidence of a hole in the bedroom door can not be moved so how does his answer reflect that they moved anything? And the photographer made point of clarifying he took photos first then moved item to take further shots. All this 'evidence moved' quotient would have had case chucked way before now..so its just crapola.

 

[minor4th]

I think the American version would be 'cat fight'.

Now "cat fight" I'm familiar with.

 

[Freya1977]

I hope that you are right and I am wrong.

I hope so too........ I have to believe that a judge of her standing is a pretty strong woman, not easily conned...

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[Carmelita]

Why would investigators collect Reeva's V-Day gift to OP as evidence?

State of mind or relationship.

 

[minor4th]

The evidence of a hole in the bedroom door can not be moved so how does his answer reflect that they moved anything? And the photographer made point of clarifying he took photos first then moved item to take further shots. All this 'evidence moved' quotient would have had case chucked way before now..so its just crapola.

I don't have an issue with him not taking a picture of the hole until the second day - I mean, I don't think the hole was planted by the police or anything.

As far as taking pictures before anything was moved, I think it's been sufficiently shown that the photographs are not reliable as depictions of the crime scene immediately after the incident. For one thing, Van Rensburg and Botha both went through the crime scene before Van Staden started taking pictures. For another thing, it turns out Van Staden was not alone when he was taking pictures - Col Motha was there right along side him taking additional pictures.

And how and on whose direction would the case be chucked by now if all this evidence was moved? You think the prosecution is going to dismiss their case because their crime scene photos aren't reliable? No way.

 

[Carmelita]

I have to believe if the hole in the door was made by a bullet that would be documented evidence and part of the prosecutors case used to discredit OP's version of events.

 

[minor4th]

How do we know they didn't? Do we know that? He said he opened it on her birthday so it must have been passed along to him, they may have looked at it before he ever got it...

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He said he unwrapped it months or weeks later - and I guess I made the assumption that it hadn't been unwrapped before then