Trial - Ross Harris #3

[arkansasmimi]

Do you think it's possible that he did go on autopilot in the morning, and then realized what he had done before lunch? And then... just decided to kind of roll with it? The stop at the car was an attempt to confirm without making a scene?

I don't know if I buy this idea, but it's been crossing my mind a lot lately.

I don't, and my reason is because his co worker would have testified differently. RH would have acted differently between lunch and leaving. If that were even so, his friends would have picked up on it at lunch, if not at least someone after lunch. He even spoke with LH at 4:08. JMHO

 

[justkk]

Do we even know if he legitimately remembered that info or not?

It looked to me like he stumbled and "couldn't be sure"of those answers as it was dawning on him that HE had pretty much taken Cooper to day care MOST of the time and how bad it was going to sound...

Especially since he is crystal clear with SO many other random details that we wouldn't necessarily expect one to know off the top of their head! Again - he can't have it both ways... The distraught, grieving father who can't remember things like his phone passcode and who took Cooper to day care yesterday and the day before - BUT also the very calm, cooperative parent who knows exactly the weight limit and make/style name of said child's car seat as well as the exact route he took, parking space he was in (under a tree! ) etc....
GAH!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[katydid23]

I don't, and my reason is because his co worker would have testified differently. RH would have acted differently between lunch and leaving. If that were even so, his friends would have picked up on it at lunch, if not at least someone after lunch. He even spoke with LH at 4:08. JMHO

How do we know he would have acted differently? He was able to sext minors, go visit prostitutes, sext random women, and none of his coworkers knew.

 

[GA_Peach]

Forgetting is something that happens in an instant. It is not something that takes a certain amount of time. If he started thinking of other things 10 seconds after he started his car, then that's when he could have forgotten. I don't really like the word "forgotten" though; it seems more descriptive that he lost awareness or consciousness of Cooper being in the car as his brain went into autopilot and drove his body to work in the way that he normally did.

To reject that possibility, you have to conclude that the whole thing was planned and carried out with premeditation. Given everything we've heard - it seems more plausible that he forgot about Cooper as soon as he started driving than to disregard a mountain of other evidence and conclude that he planned to kill Cooper on that day.

Why is the feed blacked out now?

Definitions of forget:
1. Fail to remember
2. Inadvertently neglect to attend to something
3. Put out of one's mind; cease to think of or consider

What part of that definition doesn't appeal to you? If you assume that this was not intentional, Ross must have forgotten Cooper. We can attempt to argue about semantics, but if Ross did not intentionally leave Cooper in the care, he forgot him.

I don't think that the children being left in cars is as black and white as you make it sound. I believe that babies left in cars can be caused by :1) forgetting, 2) negligence (in conjunction with forgetting), and 3) intent and malice. I believe that parents can honestly forget a child and that a person can make false memories about safely dropping off a child somewhere. In those cases, I have nothing but sympathy for both the parent and child. Negligence occurs when the parent does or does not do something that contributes to his child's death. A parent who knowingly and consciously makes a decision to engage in an activity that impairs his or her ability to fully care for a child under his care is negligent. IMO, Ross is clearly guilty of negligence. Malice and intent require premeditation.

In this case, Ross is clearly guilty of engaging in activities that impaired his ability to take care of Cooper. While I think that Ross probably left Cooper in the car with malice, the State has not proven its case beyond a reasonable doubt IMO.

 

[Hope4More]

I don't, and my reason is because his co worker would have testified differently. RH would have acted differently between lunch and leaving. If that were even so, his friends would have picked up on it at lunch, if not at least someone after lunch. He even spoke with LH at 4:08. JMHO

And because it's difficult to believe Ross the researcher wouldn't have done searches on forgotten babies in hot cars or the like, and there's no indication he deleted search histories. And, at the very least, I imagine he would have deleted from his phone evidence of his crime of sexting with a minor that day.

 

[franquerolane]

Did Harris regularly back into his parking spot? If not, that would sure convince me he planned this out.

 

[catpatrol]

Did I miss the discussion about the HD parking lot videos Kilgore showed the jury?

The videos showed people walking very near or right by RH's car (times are my approximates, from memory): 9:35, 9:40, 10:00, and 11:21, may have missed one. The car still seems to be at least partially shaded at 11:21, though the video is pretty blurry.

Early walkby's suggest, imo, Cooper was likely asleep. The 11:21 video doesn't suggest anything good for the defense, imo, unless Cooper died between 11:21 and 12:45.

According to the heat study conducted in the car, what would the temperature have been at 11:21? Anyone have that handy?

 

[minor4th]

I have to go look again too. The judge seems to be looking at Kilgore when she suggested the case be looked up--but I didn't catch what was being said.


eta---she also said pay attention to pages 61 and 62 but I don't know what that means exactly...lol

Was it at the end of the day?

 

[katydid23]

And because it's difficult to believe Ross the researcher wouldn't have done searches on forgotten babies in hot cars or the like, and there's no indication he deleted search histories. And, at the very least, I imagine he would have deleted from his phone evidence of his crime of sexting with a minor that day.

I am not so sure about that.

Ross was a lazy, slacker type of person. I think he just goes with the flow.

I don't think he even considered that they were going to go through his phone records. I think he believed they would give him a slap on the wrist and let him go.

 

[arkansasmimi]

OK here are my notes on yesterday prior to jury being brought in and Kilgore receiving something from the State.

Kilgore was hot, he wanted a subpoena for Stoddard. Wanted to go over him going to the FBI.

They had not been informed of this until just then. Stoddard had went to the FBI, BAU (Behavioral Analysis Unit) and got information on hyperthermia. He was given a binder with information. Kilgore said that the State had not turned over. Boring said that Stoddard did not have the binder that they did, and that he had had it since Nov 5, 2015. Boring said he could look at his copy but that it did not fall under the discovery statute.

Kilgore argued that it was material prepared by and with another LEO and apart of their report. Boring said it was part of Stoddard work product (that part was hard to hear after part) Kilgore said that once it is turned over to the State it is not Stoddards, it is part of the case with the State. And said that Stoddard had written a report on it. State still contends they don't have to turn over (they never said what the binder was about but we found out today)

Judge sided with the state and said could question him (sound hard at some spots this one) Judge asks when they plan to go over this and the State said Thurs. Judge says well you have all the time in the world. LOL so Kilgore asked him on the stand today lol

 

[Hope4More]

According to the heat study conducted in the car, what would the temperature have been at 11:21? Anyone have that handy?

Thanks. The videos do seem fairly relevant, imo. I'll try to dig up the car recreation testimony. I don't believe Kilgore would have introduced the tapes, though, if wasn't prepared to argue it was possible that Cooper died in that timeframe.

I also think it's a merciful relief if Kilgore can demonstrate a finite amount of time Cooper could have been awake and suffering, rather than the whole morning and beyond scenario presented by the State. jmo

 

[pocketaccent]

I think he wanted a reason to go to his car alone at lunch. No reason to put a small bag in the car when he would easily put it on his desk and bring it in. Not like it was a cumbersome package or anything. JMO He was going to make a decision about Cooper and he decided to walk away IMO.

He went out there to survey/gauge the situation.

-Why no one discovered Cooper all morning?
-Why no urgent intercom announcement - owner of *advertiser censored* automobile, come down immediately!
-Did anything happen while he was out to lunch?

 

[katydid23]

And because it's difficult to believe Ross the researcher wouldn't have done searches on forgotten babies in hot cars or the like, and there's no indication he deleted search histories. And, at the very least, I imagine he would have deleted from his phone evidence of his crime of sexting with a minor that day.

I don't see any reason to believe he needed to do any searches on hot cars and babies. He already had seen a report on the father who became an advocate and he related so closely with him that he said he wants to do the same thing. He already watched the vets' hot car video and posted a comment about his son being trapped in a hot car. AND he remembered the K-9 death in the hot car back home in Alabama. So much so, that his 'greatest fear' was leaving his child in a hot car. So I don't see where he would need to google anything else.

 

[GA_Peach]

I don't see any reason to believe he needed to do any searches on hot cars and babies. He already had seen a report on the father who became an advocate and he related so closely with him that he said he wants to do the same thing. He already watched the vets' hot car video and posted a comment about his son being trapped in a hot car. AND he remembered the K-9 death in the hot car back home in Alabama. So much so, that his 'greatest fear' was leaving his child in a hot car. So I don't see where he would need to google anything else.

He knew all that he would have needed to know - it was lethal.

 

[ShHolmz]

The judge suggested the attorneys look up Harper vs State, 1981.

I think this is the case but wonder what she is trying to communicate to them:

http://law.justia.com/cases/georgia/supreme-court/1982/38123-1.html

Harper v. State

Annotate this Case
249 Ga. 46 (1982)

287 S.E.2d 211

HARPER v. THE STATE.

38123.

Supreme Court of Georgia.

At approximately 10:30 p. m. on the night of November 22, 1980, Eva Sue Dean, Fay Hall, Horace Hamilton and the defendant, Willie James Harper, left Dean's home in Rome. They drove to the defendant's house where he went in and got a gun, which he gave to Dean to carry in her purse. They then proceeded to the American Legion in Cartersville. There the two women sat at the bar while the two men went into a back room to shoot pool. With the defendant taking side bets, Hamilton played and won consistently. Because Hamilton's winning streak was causing some unpleasantness, after about 30 minutes the defendant came out and got his gun. Hamilton continued to win, causing the other players to get upset. In the last game played, Hamilton won. When Charles Garnigan said he wasn't going to pay, the defendant approached him and shoved him in the neck with the gun. The gun fired, fatally wounding the victim. The defendant and his companions then left; two days later the defendant turned himself in to the police. Subsequently he was convicted by a jury of murder and sentenced to life imprisonment.

1. The defendant enumerates as error the admission of his statement to police. At a Jackson-Denno hearing the police officer who interrogated the defendant testified that he explained his rights to the defendant and that the defendant signed a waiver form and then made a statement, with the officer taking notes. When the officer then said he wanted to get the statement on tape, the defendant said he wanted an attorney. The officer stopped all interrogation and let the defendant call his attorney. The defendant testified that he asked for an attorney before he gave his statement.

*47 Having heard this conflicting testimony, the trial court ruled that the statement "was voluntarily given after he had his Constitutional Rights explained to him." We find no error. Jackson v. Denno, 378 U.S. 368 (84 SC 1774, 12 LE2d 908) (1964); Crawford v. State, 245 Ga. 89 (2) (263 SE2d 131) (1980).

2. In his statement, the defendant described his weapon as a.38 caliber gun and said that after he left the scene of the crime, he threw it out of the car window. On May 18, 1981, Horace Hamilton accompanied the district attorney and an investigator to a point on Highway 92, where they retrieved a .38 caliber automatic pistol from a ditch. Both Horace Hamilton and Eva Sue Dean testified that this gun looked like the defendant's gun. The defendant himself testified that it was not the same gun, but admitted that it was the same model, same color, and same size as his; that it had a clip, a hammer and a safety like his; and that he did not know anything about it that was different from his.

The defendant objected to its admission into evidence because there was no proof it was the same gun as that used in the crime. The trial court admitted it, finding it was shown to be the same gun by circumstantial evidence. We find no error. Moore v. Illinois, 408 U.S. 786, 798-800 (92 SC 2562, 33 LE2d 706) (1972); Herlong v. State, 236 Ga. 326 (2) (223 SE2d 672) (1976); Gunn v. State, 245 Ga. 359 (4) (264 SE2d 862) (1980).

3. Defendant also enumerates as error the trial court's failure to give two charges which he requested. Having examined the evidence and the requested charges, we find that the requested charges were not adjusted to the evidence in this case. Booker v. State, 156 Ga. App. 40 (4) (274 SE2d 84) (1980), revd. on other grounds, 247 Ga. 74 (274 SE2d 334) (1981); Stevens v. State, 247 Ga. 698 (9) (278 SE2d 398) (1981).

Judgment affirmed. All the Justices concur.[

BBM - I am not a lawyer but there has been some talk of Ross continuing to speak to LE after invoking his right to a lawyer and before said lawyer arrived. Just my guess and I could very well be wrong!

 

[blue22]

According to the heat study conducted in the car, what would the temperature have been at 11:21? Anyone have that handy?

At 11:35, it was 88 degrees at the car seat. That is time when the car seat temp matched the outside temp. At 12:45 the car seat temp was 98 degrees with the outside temp still being 88. The interior got above 100 degrees shortly before 1:00.

On 6/18/2014 the outside heat was 86 at 12:00. 87.8 at 1:00

 

[Hope4More]

I don't see any reason to believe he needed to do any searches on hot cars and babies. He already had seen a report on the father who became an advocate and he related so closely with him that he said he wants to do the same thing. He already watched the vets' hot car video and posted a comment about his son being trapped in a hot car. AND he remembered the K-9 death in the hot car back home in Alabama. So much so, that his 'greatest fear' was leaving his child in a hot car. So I don't see where he would need to google anything else.

Maybe what to say to make himself sound like a victim of forgotten baby syndrome? Wasn't that one of the critiques of his interview and then exchanges with Leanna? That he didn't say explicitly- well I THOUGHT I dropped him off at daycare?

 

[Hope4More]

He went out there to survey/gauge the situation.

-Why no one discovered Cooper all morning?
-Why no urgent intercom announcement - owner of *advertiser censored* automobile, come down immediately!
-Did anything happen while he was out to lunch?

Because Cooper was asleep when peeps walked right by the car.

The State can't have it every which way. If Cooper was alive in the car at 12:45pm , as the State's scientifically unsound recreation was meant to demonstrate, then we are to believe at 11:21 Cooper was alive and awake, but wasn't screaming or crying loudly enough to be heard by someone a few feet away from the car, nor had he been any of the times folks walked by between 9:30 and 11:21.

Does that make any sense to you?

And throwing in- if Cooper in his carseat was so impossible to miss, how was it none of those people walking by saw Cooper?

 

[arkansasmimi]

According to the heat study conducted in the car, what would the temperature have been at 11:21? Anyone have that handy?

I have some notes but was having buffering problems the time and missed the time line on temps. 10/19/2016 Dr David Brandi was the witness that did the heat in car test. << that should help find the video
He drove the car for 30 min with the a/c on and parked it at 8:22 am (RH didn't park until close to 9:30am)

 

[blue22]

I have some notes but was having buffering problems the time and missed the time line on temps. 10/19/2016 Dr David Brandi was the witness that did the heat in car test. << that should help find the video
He drove the car for 30 min with the a/c on and parked it at 8:22 am (RH didn't park until close to 9:30am)

They parked at 9:00 I thought, with the air having been turned to I think 67. I could be remembering wrong

Eta: my apologies, they said the a/c was set to what the car had been set to. No specific temp noted. They drove the car until it was at the full operating temp. They started monitoring temps inside the car at 9:00. It was 65 degrees in the car at 9:00 am