Trial - Ross Harris #4

[katydid23]

But his drive from CFA to work was exactly the trip he took most days. That is the auto-pilot part of his drive.

No, because many times he took Cooper through the CFA drive through, then dropped him at daycare. So I don't think it was at all unusual to turn towards the daycare.

And the baby's car seat is inches away from the drivers seat. I don't understand how he can block him out in 30 seconds when he is only a few inches away, and can be seen out of the corner of his eye when he looks to the right.

 

[Hope4More]

Since is impossible for RH to make the call your theory makes sense to me. Unless some other cop actual had possession of the phone. JMO.

Piper seized his phone and had sole possession of it until she gave it to Stoddard. This sequence was written about at great length in Staley's ruling denying the DT's motion to suppress electronic evidence, a motion predicated in part by the DT's contention the phone had been illegally seized by Piper.

 

[katydid23]

On what evidence do you base your certainty that RH saw Cooper at lunchtime? Even if he did see him (which i don't believe) how could he have known Cooper's state without even putting his head in the car or pausing to look through the window?

If he saw an unmoving Cooper he would have had no way of knowing if Cooper was asleep, unconscious, or dead. Why would he bother to put himself on a surveillance camera, involve friends , fake an errand, just to not have enough time to figure out if Cooper was dead?

Just to play Devils Advocate, what if he already knew He would be dead, since he had seen videos and read about hot car cases already.

What if the reason that he brought his friends back to his car was because he PLANNED to discover the body while his friends were there as the supportive audience. But it went south when they drove away really fast because of a car that was pulling out.

So now he had to make certain he did not put his head in the car or linger too long, because ehe knew it was all on camera.

 

[GA_Peach]

3rd call made by RH was to HD switchboard. The 4th call was to the same number, at 4:25:57.

RH had been told to stop resisting, struggled with LE, had been handcuffed, had his phone seized, and had been put in the back of Piper's car by 4:27, all within that one minute after the number was dialed (redialed) (butt dialed).

He didn't make the call. Piper , per testimony and court documents, had his phone from the time she seized it until she personally turned it over to Stoddard.

This is the first I have heard of 4 calls being made from Ross's phone. Do you know who testified to this, or where/when this was entered into evidence? Here's the information that I have about Ross's calls from crime scene:

1) To LH - lasted around 14 seconds
2) Short call to LAA
3) Long call to LAA - began at 4:25.xx and ended at 4:31.xx, Ross's phone was confiscated at 4:27.xx

I have only listened to about 95% of the evidence so it's very possible that I missed this, but I am quite surprised to hear of a fourth call from the scene.

 

[RANCH]

Piper seized his phone and had sole possession of it until she gave it to Stoddard. This sequence was written about at great length in Staley's ruling denying the DT's motion to suppress electronic evidence, a motion predicated in part by the DT's contention the phone had been illegally seized by Piper.

Looks like it has to be Piper who dialed the phone.

 

[PenElaine]

Hi former CMJA folks and new (to me) posters. Been following this case sporadically since baby Cooper was left to die. I recall in early forums that JRH went to college after he got married and LH worked full-time while her hubby enjoyed college life at a relatively late age ((26-27?) I'm guessing he got a taste for this lifestyle, had classes with young girls. Maybe get he was a BMOC (Big man on Campus) - hey he already had a career in LE!

So once he has his degree from 'Bama", is pressured into a baby and all the responsibilities that entails, he longs for the "good old days" of college life. We saw a couple of photos of him at football games with precious Cooper. Hard to party with a baby in tow.

He can't be too committed to a potentially great career with HD if he sees a job at ChikFilA as a viable alternative.

Apps like Kik and Scout give him access to young girls - types he likely saw at college every day. Dang, he couldn't get their time of day when he shared classes with them. Now he's a successful web designer with one of the country's leading retailers (translate to a naive teenager = rich!!!). Hot stuff!

Wife of 10 years is not responsive in the bedroom. Son is a drag to bring to Roll Tide games. Buy-bye.

All JMHO but I stand on he side of guilty. To the max.

 

[Hope4More]

BBM

I am not sure if that is really true, according to what Ross said in the interview. He said ' the manager [CFA] knows Cooper well, we go there a lot ....usually in the drive through...' [paraphrasing]

So how much of an unusual routine was it really?

I have not seen any cases of FBS so far, where the 'forgetting' happened within 30-60 seconds of buckling the child in the car seat. That is going to be a big hurdle for Dr Diamond to get over, imo. Especially given the texts that same morning, complaining about needing a break from his kid.

RH told Stoddard he took Cooper to CFA 2-4 times a month, but hadn't in fact taken him even that frequently for at least several months.

I don't remember him telling Stoddard the manager knew Cooper, but if he did, that was untrue, because the manager testified he'd never met Cooper before the 18th.

 

[katydid23]

So you're saying he committed crimes himself, including obstruction of justice, to protect his friend? Is that easier for you to believe that believing he simply didn't remember?

No, not saying that. Just saying that he may have chosen to say as little as possible about that day. Maybe he didn't think it was important. Maybe he thought it would needlessly harm his friend in the eyes of the investigators. Plenty of friends choose to stay quiet if not asked specific questions. Maybe he forgot or maybe he just chose to keep his mouth shut.

 

[arkansasmimi]

One thing I see is that Cooper's head completely covers the Chicco logo stitched into the back of the seat. Looking at various images the logo seems to be situated somewhere between maybe 2" to 4" from the top - just a guess from pics. This comes from Googling Chicco Keyfit 30. So his head may actually be about an inch from the top but it's certainly not 5 1/4" from it. Hopefully the jury will have seen more pics of Cooper in his car seat. In any case his height exceeded the recommended limit. So much for Ross knowing "all the regulations from watching Youtube videos" about the car seat. What a giant ball of hot air.

View attachment 103707
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/396316835934755840/

again, just going from measurments from the CSI testimony and the autopsy report. and that is the difference.

 

[Hope4More]

Looks like it has to be Piper who dialed the phone.

Afraid so, and saying that because Stoddard, after seeing the phone logs, had to know that too, but instead of looking at the evidence and accepting it, he held to his mistaken initial certainty that RH was speaking to someone on the phone, that the person he was speaking with was likely involved in some way, and that the person he was speaking with was most likely Ms. Gray, the poor daycare teacher he proceeded to terrify to get her to admit to his version of the not truth.

And Stoddard maintained every single one of those fictions, under oath, at trial.

 

[pocketaccent]

ghomnoreah?

:laugh:

I just googled ghomnoreah to see if it isn't one of the Caribbean islands. You know, just to make sure. Off to clear my cache.

 

[Hope4More]

This is the first I have heard of 4 calls being made from Ross's phone. Do you know who testified to this, or where/when this was entered into evidence? Here's the information that I have about Ross's calls from crime scene:

1) To LH - lasted around 14 seconds
2) Short call to LAA
3) Long call to LAA - began at 4:25.xx and ended at 4:31.xx, Ross's phone was confiscated at 4:27.xx

I have only listened to about 95% of the evidence so it's very possible that I missed this, but I am quite surprised to hear of a fourth call from the scene.

The call records were introduced when Stoddard was on the stand. It was during cross when Kilgore made Stoddard look at them (it took literally minutes, with court stopped, for Stoddard to look up and face Kilgore), then Kilgore marched him through the narrative and tick tock of the calls i just posted.

 

[RANCH]

Afraid so, and saying that because Stoddard, after seeing the phone logs, had to know that too, but instead of looking at the evidence and accepting it, he held to his mistaken initial certainty that RH was speaking to someone on the phone, that the person he was speaking with was likely involved in some way, and that the person he was speaking with was most likely Ms. Gray, the poor daycare teacher he proceeded to terrify to get her to admit to his version of the not truth.

And Stoddard maintained every single one of those fictions, under oath, at trial.

I hope the jury is paying attention to these facts and are not distracted by all of the sexting evidence.

 

[EquallyDivided]

On what evidence do you base your certainty that RH saw Cooper at lunchtime? Even if he did see him (which i don't believe) how could he have known Cooper's state without even putting his head in the car or pausing to look through the window?

If he saw an unmoving Cooper he would have had no way of knowing if Cooper was asleep, unconscious, or dead. Why would he bother to put himself on a surveillance camera, involve friends , fake an errand, just to not have enough time to figure out if Cooper was dead?

IMO, I believe he planned to "discover" Cooper with the audience if his friends, but he either chickened out, lost his nerve, or they drove off to quickly for it to work.

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[katydid23]

RH told Stoddard he took Cooper to CFA 2-4 times a month, but hadn't in fact taken him even that frequently for at least several months.

I don't remember him telling Stoddard the manager knew Cooper, but if he did, that was untrue, because the manager testified he'd never met Cooper before the 18th.

I guess I don't understand why he said everyone knew Cooper there at the restaurant, and why he talked about taking CFA food to the day care staff and calling in on the days Cooper was late, etc. It sure sounded like he was making a case for him taking Cooper there quite a bit.

 

[Hope4More]

I guess I don't understand why he said everyone knew Cooper there at the restaurant, and why he talked about taking CFA food to the day care staff and calling in on the days Cooper was late, etc. It sure sounded like he was making a case for him taking Cooper there quite a bit.

A. He was guilty, and under suspicion for killing his son, and wanted to convince LE he loved Cooper and spent more time with him than he actually did.

B. He was innocent, but under suspicion for killing Cooper, was trying to convince Stoddard he was making a mistake, and exaggerated.

C. He was innocent, under suspicion for killing Cooper, felt guilty and responsible, and was exaggerating the time spent with Cooper at CFA to......hmm. That one doesn't seem to go anywhere.

D. None of the above.


Btw- the CFA for teachers was a very occasional thing.

 

[RANCH]

A. He was guilty, and under suspicion for killing his son, and wanted to convince LE he loved Cooper and spent more time with him than he actually did.

B. He was innocent, but under suspicion for killing Cooper, was trying to convince Stoddard he was making a mistake, and exaggerated.

C. He was innocent, under suspicion for killing Cooper, felt guilty and responsible, and was exaggerating the time spent with Cooper at CFA to......hmm. That one doesn't seem to go anywhere.

D. None of the above.


Btw- the CFA for teachers was a very occasional thing.

I'm sure that RH knew he was under suspicion by LE for purposely killing Cooper so he may have felt that exaggerating the good times they spent together would help in mitigating that suspicion.

In my opinion, a guilty or a not guilty RH could act this way. It's a wash for me.

 

[arkansasmimi]

Wish thst question was asked of day care...or a sign in sheet presented. I had to sign in when I dropped my kids off.

RH had to badge in and out when took Cooper per testimony. If you go back and listed to Stoddard Cross this week you will see the video of 6 days that RH took Cooper to school 4 of those days of of 6 Cooper is laying on RH shoulder. LH took him some too.

 

[justkk]

I am fully aware that Cooper is dead. That doesn't change the fact that the jury has to decide if they believe the police that this was not an accident. When the defense points out all the mistakes police made, it could raise reasonable doubt that the police made the correct conclusions.

The thing is, at this point I believe this was intentional for reasons that I don't think have much to do with mistakes police made.
The biggest issues for me have to do with the proximity of RH to Cooper when he was in the car for that short drive. The fact that RH sat in car for 33 seconds before exiting and shutting the door, after reaching over to his right to get his briefcase and his drink (That's a really long time "alone" In your car - I tried it). And the short distance/time to where he "must" have forgot Cooper.

ETA- also, meant to add that the other thing that defies logic to me in addition to what I listed above, is that RH got into his vehicle that had been heating up his now dead child for 7 hours and we are to believe that he did NOT notice anything... Smell (YES, I think there would be a smell and not because any of the LE said so) of hot urine, sweaty child, something. And that he got into the vehicle, put his briefcase on the passenger side floor, (possibly moved the lightbulbs from the driver seat to the passenger seat) got his big frame into that car WITHOUT his eyeballs traveling just a BIT to the right??

These ILLOGICAL things are the biggest factor to me. These are also things that really don't have anything to do with the police investigation - they are just facts.
JMO


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[Hope4More]

IMO, I believe he planned to "discover" Cooper with the audience if his friends, but he either chickened out, lost his nerve, or they drove off to quickly for it to work.

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I don't think this is what happened (but am open to the possibility), but imo a much better explanation for lightbulbs at lunch was that he had forgotten Cooper--not as in FBS, but a flat out forgetting as in mind moved on to lining up 36 women to text/sext that day, went into work, "bantered" with his buds (his words), sexted, and at some point WAS cued and remembered Cooper.

Rather than running out freaking out, or at least to check, he assumed Cooper was dead by then but didn't know for sure. He thought it would look suspicious if he went out to lunch alone (he never did) and just as bad if he went out to his car and came right back in . So, he had friends pick him up then drop him off near his car, with the lightbulbs as an excuse to check his car.

Cooper was dead already (and ME report on stage of rigor mortis suggests this was so), but RH hadn't had time to think through what came next, so waved bye to friends and went back to "work."