Trial - Ross Harris #8

[Rocco]

Yes, and LH/LT testified that she thought the doll's head looked too big so the State had the doll's circumference of the head measured last night and the doll's head is actually a half inch smaller than Baby Cooper's little head. I admire Det. Stockinger for being the fantastic unbiased rebuttal witness that he was today.

I liked Stockinger too. His curt 'I'm just telling it like it is' answers were refreshing after listening to other witnesses beat around the bush, even when they were asked yes/no type questions.

 

[JudyBolton]

One more thought about the recent actions of the DT. Whatever piece of information came to light was all encompassing. It did not affect one or two witnesses. It actually brought their entire case to an abrupt stop. I can only think of one piece of evidence that would cause such an immediate halt.

If what was in the FBI file was so compelling, why wouldn't the State have entered it into evidence?

A smoking gun is the only thing explains everything. I believe that the DT attorneys were blindsided. It would also explain MK's obvious frustration with Ross. Am I missing something?

Can you elaborate? If it is a "smoking gun" why would the State not have already used it?

 

[Zoobiegirl]

One more thought about the recent actions of the DT. Whatever piece of information came to light was all encompassing. It did not affect one or two witnesses. It actually brought their entire case to an abrupt stop. I can only think of one piece of evidence that would cause such an immediate halt.

If what was in the FBI file was so compelling, why wouldn't the State have entered it into evidence?

A smoking gun is the only thing explains everything. I believe that the DT attorneys were blindsided. It would also explain MK's obvious frustration with Ross. Am I missing something?

BBM I am new to this trial following, (as is obvious :laugh:I am sure), but what would have been a smoking gun here? I mean would it have to be something like RH saying he did it deliberately? If it was in the FBI file, what sort of thing could that be? do we have enough info to speculate?

 

[katydid23]

I thought on cross Stoddard said it was "articles."

MY feeling is if it was something so shattering it could derail the defense, it would have been entered into to testimony. Why wouldn't the prosecution jump on information that devastating? It doesn't make sense to leave it out. IMO.

Here is what comes to mind, after further thought...

What if Dr Diamond elicited something during his interview with Ross, that would be really harmful to the DT's case....HOWEVER, the state would not be able to enter that grenade into evidence until Dr Diamond's testimony. I am pretty sure that they could not discuss it without having Diamond on the stand.

So MAYBE that is why they dragged their feet for so long before turning the report over? If they had done so weeks ago, the DT would have had the heads up and found a way around it?

 

[katydid23]

Can you elaborate? If it is a "smoking gun" why would the State not have already used it?

IF it was something that Dr Diamond elicited during an interview, then I don't think the State could discuss it with anyone but Dr D. He would need to be on the stand to have it entered into evidence, I believe...maybe I AM WRONG, ...?

 

[MsJosie]

I totally missed that about the car, :shame:

Here is what comes to mind, after further thought...

What if Dr Diamond elicited something during his interview with Ross, that would be really harmful to the DT's case....HOWEVER, the state would not be able to enter that grenade into evidence until Dr Diamond's testimony. I am pretty sure that they could not discuss it without having Diamond on the stand.

So MAYBE that is why they dragged their feet for so long before turning the report over? If they had done so weeks ago, the DT would have had the heads up and found a way around it?

Possibly the information, even if they articles, could involve other FBI sec investigations....and RH got involved in...we may never know.

 

[DeDee]

Here is what comes to mind, after further thought...

What if Dr Diamond elicited something during his interview with Ross, that would be really harmful to the DT's case....HOWEVER, the state would not be able to enter that grenade into evidence until Dr Diamond's testimony. I am pretty sure that they could not discuss it without having Diamond on the stand.

So MAYBE that is why they dragged their feet for so long before turning the report over? If they had done so weeks ago, the DT would have had the heads up and found a way around it?

Immediate grounds for a mistrial would have been granted to Kilgore if the State intentionally withheld FBI evidence from the DT to the detriment of the defendant's right to a fair trial.

 

[DeDee]

Does anyone recall which Pretrial Hearing this piece of evidence with the FBI was discussed? I'd like to watch it. TIA

 

[arkansasmimi]

I will never get caught back up! Darn real life...

I find it interesting that (as we have all conversed about) the AR measurements. The length does not add up to 33 inches. The only measurement that was addressed was the head circumference.
Cooper height 3/3/14 was 2ft 7in (31inches)
AR 6/19/14 has 33 inches

Cooper head circumference 3/3/13 19.09 in
AR 6/19/14 19 1/2 inches ** State/Dr. Frist said this was a typo?

Doll that used head measurement 11/3/2016 by Det. Stockinger 18 1/2 (around biggest part of head- he "eyeballed it", ADA Jesse Evans took pics as he held measuring tape)

Kilgore asked if he knew that had been errors in orig car seat measurement placement
Stockinger NO
Kilgoreid know that colleague had to come back up and remeasure because of error made
Stockinger: Did hear about that

Did you know about the errors made by the M.E?
No
Shows photo by LH mother of Cooper 4/20/14, asked if that a more reliable photo
Evans: OBJ - argumentative -sustained

Kilgore: would you agree, there was a lot of room for errors on measurements in this case
Stockinger: I guess you could say that
Kilgore: there is no evidence that this is not exactly how Cooper looked in that car seat
Stockinger: No, because I have not ever seen him in the car seat.

 

[GA_Peach]

Can you elaborate? If it is a "smoking gun" why would the State not have already used it?

I don't believe that the State is aware of its existence or the rules of evidence would prohibit the State from being able to introduce it.

Here is what comes to mind, after further thought...

What if Dr Diamond elicited something during his interview with Ross, that would be really harmful to the DT's case....HOWEVER, the state would not be able to enter that grenade into evidence until Dr Diamond's testimony. I am pretty sure that they could not discuss it without having Diamond on the stand.

So MAYBE that is why they dragged their feet for so long before turning the report over? If they had done so weeks ago, the DT would have had the heads up and found a way around it?

I think that it is something along the lines you mentioned above. I believe that incriminating evidence was brought to light either by:

1) An oral statement made by Ross.
2) New evidence that was uncovered during the lunch break, perhaps through an interview. Since it was recently discovered, the State was unaware of it. If the DT continued, they would have been required to turn it over to the State.

While I have absolutely no proof that incriminating evidence was found, it fully explains the recent events. It's Ocaam's razor. What else could it be? What else would cause the DT to promptly rest its case? It's clear that was not the DT's plan heading into lunch on Thursday, but then something changed during that hour.

I do believe that the FBI files are significant in some manner, but I think that they may be completely independent of Thursday's lunchtime discovery. There's a reason the State kept dragging their feet on turning the files over.

 

[arkansasmimi]

The State has had to concede many errors and JMHO this was all brought to the attention (at least in front of jury) by the Defense. Then the State within days rushed and redid the figures (ea time ADA Jesse Evans was the one taking photos) Then, Grimstead again left out a measurement on his last report. This all played out in front of jury. It shows much room for reasonable doubt on any measurements taken. * When asked about the car seat to dash 10/15 & 10/16/16 there was also questions about the way orig measurment taken vs the new. This all goes towards placement and what could be see. Then you have "someone" messing with the car seat (the extension was pulled out) and this was done with the photos Grimstead took on 7/2/14, the first scans 7/8/14 of car at Crime Scene Shed, and also at the hot car reconstruction. So all those are not factual to 6/18/2014

Kilgore made the point on the Rebuttal witness that errors were made and it was left there. Kilgore wants the car seat brought back into the court room and it will be. He will no doubt point out where Cooper head was in the car seat. And the fact that the measurements in Cooper height do not match up. JMHO

** Something else that we found out on Rebuttal, the Autopsy Report was NOT admitted into evidence. I think this was stratigic by Lumkin and by Kilgore.
Lumkin read it into the record.. in front of the jury he had Dr. Frits to affirm each measurement. *on Direct that is when Evans went up and had correct the 'head' measurement... that why Evans had Stockinger to measure the doll head 11/3/2016. BUT Evans did not have the height measurements of the AR corrected. You know that Def will make an issue of this. Stoddard has made the HEAD OVER TOP OF CAR SEAT into testimony.

AR
Crown -heel 33 inches

crown-shoulder 8
shoulder-heel 23.5
31.5 inches

crown -rump 14
rump-heel 17.5
31.5

March 3, 2014 well baby check up: 2ft 7 in... 31 inches

Measurements seat to top of car seat (where butt sits to top edge of car seat per Grimstead)
19.25 inches (19 1/4 in)
-
14 inches (AR crown to rump)
5.25 inches from crown of Cooper head to the top edge of car seat. **And only 1.5 inches over the 30 inch mark not 3 inches.

 

[Pugnolia]

"On behalf of Ross the Defense rests."

I wonder if Ross and his Legal Team had some disagreements during lunch or earlier today, especially following such a bad day as yesterday for the Defense Team. That, coupled with the loss of Dr. Diamond (for whatever reason), could have knocked the wind out Ross's sail, and he could have said he was through.

I find it hard to believe that new information is just coming through for either the State or the Defense. Isn't that sort of thing presented during Discovery?

Whatever the reason is, I'm sure we are all waiting with baited breath to learn.

I've followed since the first day (mostly lurking) and have really appreciated all of your informative posts!

 

[Safeguard]

I am racking my brain trying to come up with a plausible reason for Dr. Diamond to pull out or the DT not to use him. Because of the expense of an expert witness, there is a lot of thought that goes into hiring one. This usually includes the expert spending time reviewing the records. This being a high profile case, I cannot imagine Dr. Diamond was unaware of the crucial points before he agreed to testify.

So that leave the DT choosing not to use him. But WHY? :gaah:

Dr. Diamond obviously believes very much in FBS. Could be that he saw elements of that in this case, and agreed to say so.

However RH does not really fit the profile of parents that Dr. D has previously testified for, (Not an accused sex offender/ or other criminal element in the bunch, that I could find), maybe he had second thoughts about having anything to do with RH. Considering the absolutely vile character we now know he has?

I would certainly not want anything to do with 'helping' Ross, especially if my name would be professionaly associated with having testified in his defence.

 

[arkansasmimi]

The rebuttal witness also made the jury aware that he was on the phone with Lt Ferrell. He was asked by Kilgore, what the "I know, I know, I know's" were about. Witness does not remember.
Jury will be reminded of Ferrells testimony. He testified that he met Stockinger & Rassee in the parking lot and that he called Stoddard. This witness stated he was in the office when they got the call and that he called Stoddard and Murphy. Ferrell said he got down between CSI Shumpert and ME Inv Jackson at the scene by Cooper. Both of those witnesses testified different (impeached his testimony) Ferrell did not make a report until 8/2015, only after Stoddards asking. He said he "forgot"

This witness said that he and Rassee were in the office, only ones at the time along with Lt Ferrell. He was asked to respond to a deceased child left in a car. He testified HE contacted Det Stoddard and Murphy who where out in the field following up on some leads, to give them a heads up. Stoddard informed him would meet at the scene. Stockinger/Rassee were first to arrive on scene. Got some initial info from uniform guys. (Gallimore, Foglia, Piper) already on scene. RH already detained. Did not physically see Cooper. Already covered with sheet.

**Medical Records are in evidence but not the Autopsy Report ??? LMAO Evans says that Mr. Lumpkins already read into record the measurements.
[video=youtube;kuhKtzIDevo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuhKtzIDevo&index=1&list=PLoW1SIeAWaWa1BHJdr_EpBGK-U_weQTFd[/video]

 

[arkansasmimi]

JMHO, as far as Dr. Diamond... There is a lot that goes into play in who is called. The Defense has already made it clear in front of the jury (with the State OBJ and the Judge sustaining) every time something was referred back to the SW (which is where this investigation started). There had also been heated arguments over Dr. Diamond testimony that he was going to present. Moments prior to Kilgore OS, Boring spoke about notes from Dr. Diamond and were given to the Court Clerk sealed (just as the FBI info was given, marked so both don't get sent back with the jury in error). Whomever the witness was that was going to present the 50 slides, Boring already had big issues. JMHO, IF it was Dr. Diamond, I believe the Def, knew it was going to be an up hill climb and the Judge had already been leaning to the State on this and other issues as it was. Dr Brewer had already testified. He had already gotten a lot of info in (as Hope4More already posted very well) He had also referenced Dr. Diamond and his research. We do not know how the jury appeared to be taking in Dr. Brewer testimony. I trust that the Def knew their case and the info that would or would not be allowed by this judge. With that limitation it could have done more harm than good especially with him being the Expert in his field. The Jury should not know anything about Dr Diamond not appearing, at all. Should make no difference.

The Def has disproved ea of the "search" accusations made by the CCPD Detectives. The jury also has heard the State stay on their objections that the judge has already ruled that they cant talk about *advertiser censored*. Also they heard Boring tell Lumkin when trying to get information from Murphy (who wrote and swore the info was true) that if Def wanted to know *advertiser censored* they should call that witness. That is one reason why Lumkin asked for the 3rd Mistrial. Shift of burden told in front of the jury. This had happened time and time again. Even though the jury was not privy to all gone on outside their presence, I feel sure they smart enough to "get it". They heard Stoddard testimony. They heard all the other LEO. They heard ME, CSI. They heard the video interviews. You could hear LH voice and it did JMHO sound different than 100% no emotion. REMEMBER... Stockinger had been to the scene, he already KNEW about whatever he was told about RH actions and that RH was already in rear of Pipers patrol car.

 

[arkansasmimi]

Does anyone recall which Pretrial Hearing this piece of evidence with the FBI was discussed? I'd like to watch it. TIA

RBBM, It was not discussed at all. Matter of fact the Def did not know anything about it until it was told same morning that was told of the car re scan done 10/15 & 10/16/16.
Kilgore was just made aware of 10/24/16 here is prior to trial. And the State kept holding back the information from the Def, until Friday morning they gave info to court clerk. So the Def at the earliest would have gotten late Thursday afternoon. Possible Brady violation. Stoddard made a report about this information and Kilgore said was part of the investigation. So I think jmho this will go to wards the whole possible Dr. Diamond not testifying. At least on the part of possible Appeal point. When asked repeatedly Boring "forgot" to give to the Defense. 10/25/14 Kilgore on Cross asks Stoddard about the FBI binder.
[video=youtube;3QZeATJX4EI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QZeATJX4EI&list=PLoW1SIeAWaWa1BHJdr_EpBGK-U_weQTFd&index=45[/video]

 

[katydid23]

JMHO, as far as Dr. Diamond... There is a lot that goes into play in who is called. The Defense has already made it clear in front of the jury (with the State OBJ and the Judge sustaining) every time something was referred back to the SW (which is where this investigation started). There had also been heated arguments over Dr. Diamond testimony that he was going to present. Moments prior to Kilgore OS, Boring spoke about notes from Dr. Diamond and were given to the Court Clerk sealed (just as the FBI info was given, marked so both don't get sent back with the jury in error). Whomever the witness was that was going to present the 50 slides, Boring already had big issues. JMHO, IF it was Dr. Diamond, I believe the Def, knew it was going to be an up hill climb and the Judge had already been leaning to the State on this and other issues as it was. Dr Brewer had already testified. He had already gotten a lot of info in (as Hope4More already posted very well) He had also referenced Dr. Diamond and his research. We do not know how the jury appeared to be taking in Dr. Brewer testimony. I trust that the Def knew their case and the info that would or would not be allowed by this judge. With that limitation it could have done more harm than good especially with him being the Expert in his field. The Jury should not know anything about Dr Diamond not appearing, at all. Should make no difference.

I really cannot believe that they would pull their 'star' FBS expert, minutes before he was supposed to testify, just because they were afraid it would be an uphill battle on cross. That makes no sense to me at all. Boring is no Juan Martinez.

Brewer, their other memory expert was not a very effective witness, imo. He was 'AIGHT' as my kids say. But not very compelling or memorable. And by all accounts, Diamond is a very charismatic, engaging speaker. He can speak about FBS with great authority. Brewer did not do that. He suggested it was possible, but fell apart in the end at cross, imo. I don't think that Diamond would have folded like that when those possible triggers were discussed.

The only way that the DT would have pulled the plug on Diamond, imo, would be if they were supremely confident in the previous case they laid out and in the morning testimony. And I think we can all see by their demeanor, that was not the case. Kilgore looked angry and upset and kind of defeated, imo.

I don't think the judge would have put any more limitations on Diamond than she did on Brewer. And he seemed to have a lot of latitude to discuss the memory and the way that FBS works in cases like this. It was just kind of weak and sterile.

As to your statement that it will not be making a difference to the jury that Diamond did not testify...IDK that I agree. Sure, they didn't know about him being on deck and then suddenly going POOF. But I do believe that they noticed the last few days of the DT case fell flat and was disjointed. There was no momentum, no big finish, like one might expect.

Many people, myself included, thought the entire case was going to hinge on Dr D's testimony. A well put together PowerpOint with 50 slides and years of experience testifying about hot car cases. And he has won 95% of his cases.

The Def has disproved ea of the "search" accusations made by the CCPD Detectives. The jury also has heard the State stay on their objections that the judge has already ruled that they cant talk about *advertiser censored*. Also they heard Boring tell Lumkin when trying to get information from Murphy (who wrote and swore the info was true) that if Def wanted to know *advertiser censored* they should call that witness. That is one reason why Lumkin asked for the 3rd Mistrial. Shift of burden told in front of the jury. This had happened time and time again. Even though the jury was not privy to all gone on outside their presence, I feel sure they smart enough to "get it". They heard Stoddard testimony. They heard all the other LEO. They heard ME, CSI. They heard the video interviews. You could hear LH voice and it did JMHO sound different than 100% no emotion. REMEMBER... Stockinger had been to the scene, he already KNEW about whatever he was told about RH actions and that RH was already in rear of Pipers patrol car.

Calling for a mistrial is routine. I have never seen a trial where someone did not ask for a mistrial, at least a few times.

They did hear Leann testify and would have heard her emotions coming through. I think she did HERSELF a lot of good by taking the stand. But I am not sure she really helped her ex husband all that much. jmo :moo:

 

[katydid23]

I am trying to find a more extensive description of the jurors. Here is a rough sketch:


The six-woman, six-man jury includes a nutritionist, mechanic, a former jury foreperson, a grandmother of six whose policemen father was killed in the line of duty, two nurses and a 19-year-old college student.

http://www.ajc.com/news/breaking-ne...for-ross-harris-trial/RHdD4KcRZfERzAezEJDV7O/

 

[arkansasmimi]

11/1/2016 Joey Dessmith, the neighbor of LH and RH. Testified she was NEVER contacted by any Det from CCPD. And first contacted by the DA March 2016.
On Cross by State, she agreed the LEO was at the home 6/18/14, the Def Inv followed up with her in a phone interview at her work. .... *** I do not think there was a statement done by the Det by this witness.

Yet 10/25/2016 Stoddard testified under oath speaking of neighbor... 50:53 mark....."and what you learned from her was.. OBJECTION HEARSAY>>>
Stoddard flipping pages back and forth... Kilgore said your kinda like the ringmaster of a circus... Stoddard very true...
Stoddard that he "believes they did" Kilgore asks did he interview her, no.. did Det Murphy? OBJs Hearsay ...
only thing Stoddard has to share is Whisper and chats...that Stoddard said lead up to his death.

Stoddard going on and on about RH erect penis in same gallery with picture of his sleeping son is proof of his DOUBLE LIFE>
[video=youtube;yj-8JhHysdc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj-8JhHysdc&index=41&list=PLoW1SIeAWaWa1BHJdr_EpBGK-U_weQTFd[/video]

 

[katydid23]

here we go:


Ross Cavitt WSB TV
October 3 ·
Harris Trial UPDATE:
Here’s a look at the jurors selected to hear evidence in the Ross Harris case. There are 12 jurors plus four alternates. The alternates won’t know they are alternates until the end of the testimony.

1. Single woman with no kids. Works in customer service and retail. Her father is a former local police chief. She uses social media and watched “People vs. OJ.”

2. Single man with no children. Born and raised in Brunswick. Said he wanted to serve on this jury when asked. Works in an automotive shop not far from the courthouse.

3. Married woman with a two year old daughter. Husband works in construction, she is from a military family. Has an uncle in prison who she visits. Had some knowledge of the case, but said she heard some people say it (Cooper’s death) was an accident, others say it was on purpose.

4. Single woman who has three kids. A nutritionist at a local hospital. Her father is a cop, she likes to watch Criminal Minds. She’s heard about the case, and her initial thought was Harris was guilty but she admits she hasn’t heard the evidence.

5. Married woman with three grandkids. She’s a retired nurse and has served on juries before. Her brother was killed in Washington DC and she attended the trial.

6. Married to a retired longshoreman, a registrar at a local high school. Two older sons and six grandchildren. She served on juries before, and was foreperson before. Not big on social media, her father killed in the line of duty as a police officer when she was 12. She says if she is on the jury she’ll make sure fellow jurors follow the law.


7. Man who is married with two kids. Works in building maintenance, wife is a banker. Watches some crime shows, didn’t know a lot about the case.

8. Man who is married but has no children. Draftsman who looks for a local architect. Wife is a nurse. He texts, uses Facebook, watches MSNBC. Said he figured out he was called for Harris case and said he remembered the case and that it had “looked bad” for Harris.

9. Man who is single. A nurse at a local facility dealing the addiction and mental health. Has had a brother arrested multiple times. Only heard of the Harris case recently.

10. 19 year old single man, a student. Only person in this group who said he had heard nothing about the case. Likes to watch documentaries about serial killers and “Making a Murderer.”

11. Woman who is married with two kids in their 20s. A registered nurse whose husband is friends with the former District Attorney in Glynn County. He works at Federal Law Enforcement Training Facility. Has family in Cobb, but doesn’t visit often. Can be impartial in trial.

12. Married man with three young kids. A mechanical technician and a Navy veteran. Says wife recognized the Judge from news reports but otherwise knew little about the case.

13. Woman who is married with four older children and four grandchildren. Said she knew someone killed in a homicide. Saw the case on the “nightly news” but believes she can judge the case based on the evidence and the law. Says seeing all the news media gathered “heightened the stress” for serving.

14. Married man with a 13 year old daughter. A retired carpenter who uses a voice-box to speak due to undisclosed medical issue. Saw the case in the paper several times and said his wife had an opinion that Harris was guilty. But he told lawyers he could discount her opinion and make up his own mind. “Always have,” he said.

15. Married woman with one child. Takes care of second homes in the area and initially thought the Harris case was a “tragic accident” based on what she’d first heard. No use of social media, likes “Judge Judy” and followed the Casey Anthony trial. Was one of few jurors who thought the case was an accident.

16. Single man with a 23 year old son. He’s a welder who initially responded he had formed an opinion about Harris’ guilt but later said he had not. Served on multiple juries, including a murder trial. He’s been arrested himself for DUI “multiple times” but says “it was my fault, every one of them.

Ross Cavitt WSB TV [twitter]