Trial - Ross Harris #9

[arkansasmimi]

Have a wonderful Sunday afternoon! :autumn:

 

[minor4th]

But how often do you forget what you just did? And to be clear, I am not talking about forgetting about a thought. How often do you forget an activity, one that requires you to interact with your environment, that you just completed?

Let's take the refrigerator example that Dr. Brewer used. You get off the couch, walk over to the refrigerator, and open the door. You are staring at the refrigerator and cannot remember what you need. However, do you also forget that you were just sitting on the couch watching television? That's what Ross did. Not only did he forget to take Cooper to day care, but he also forgot that he just ate breakfast with Cooper. He forgot two separate items within 40 seconds. Am I supposed to believe that Ross had two (nearly?) simultaneous memory failures? It's just not reasonable to me.

BBM - I take a medication every morning, and it occasionally happens that right after I have taken the medication, I cannot remember whether I just took it or not. I mean, I can be standing there with the prescription bottle in my hand and a glass of water and I can literally not remember if I just took the medicine 30 seconds ago.

IMO this happens because I have taken this medication every morning for the last 15 years. It is so rote and routine, that I do it without consciously paying attention to doing it. When trying to recall, it is pointless to try to trace my steps back and recreate what I just did - I have so many memories/images in my head of taking the medicine, it would be impossible to know whether I was thinking of the medication I just took or just replaying in my head the action I've taken thousands of times. I have to ask my husband if I just took the medicine or if I only got the prescription bottle out and then got distracted.

 

[minor4th]

State was "getting that info to Def" on Wed, and turned it in to the AFTER Judge after the Def said didn't have anymore witnesses after lunch Thurs.

Also I would have to go back and listen to Brewer testimony for both Direct and Cross, but it appeared to me that Brewer had been speaking prior with the Defense longer than Aug 16, 2016 Hearing, and had spoken to the State also and didn't appear to me that he was orig a witness in place of Dr Diamond. JMHO more like an addition to.

I honestly have no idea what happened. I was just trying to come up with something that made sense to me in the context of things you have to plan for and deal with in the middle of a trial.

 

[minor4th]

So safe to say he didn't have a strong support base of friends/acquaintences with whom there was meaningful & tenured history.

Like, I'm pretty antisocial (in the literal, not the clinical sense) but I have a lot of friends who know me intimately and have known me for a long time.

They know I'm not a perfect parent. I lose my temper, I sometimes cuss, I've missed important childhood plays, etc., but they also know I am a loving parent who would never harm one of my kids. For example: Two years I drove them 4 hrs a day to a private school because it was best suited for their needs but I often moaned & complained about the horrendous drive. When someone describes another in terms of NEVER having witnessed him/her lose their cool or show frustration with their toddler, I immediately discredit the testimony as having stretched the truth or not knowing the defendant on a personal level.

Everything I DO is for my kids, but I'm not always outwardly 'perfect & loving' about doing it.

What you describe are either people related to RH or really only knew him in a very shallow sort of way (ie; describe him in terms of what they observed of him at church or wherever.)

He actually did have a strong support base, including family and friends.

 

[minor4th]

On cross, Dr. Brewer testified that the absence of the CFA bag would have been a trigger.

The State did show video of Ross entering the Tree House with a cup and a bag of food on at least one occasion.

Did the DT ever enter into evidence that Ross ate in his car? I don't recall that part of the trial.

I don't think Brewer said any of those things would have been a trigger or should have been a trigger. He said they could have been a trigger - he also explained how none of those things would have been an effective trigger because in Ross' mind, Cooper was at day care.

 

[SuperTmo]

You are probably referring to my post.

Ross did not leave a bag of CFA food in the car. When Ross went to CFA without Cooper in the morning, he normally utilized the drive-thru. When he arrived at work on those mornings, he had a CFA cup AND a bag of food. On June 18, Ross had a cup but not a bag of food. The cup itself would have acted as a trigger/cue. The absence of a bag of CFA food also would have been a trigger/cue.

I am sorry for the confusion, and I hope that this clarifies my earlier statement.

Thank you! That makes perfect sense. I am super sensitive to smell and will throw up if my car smells like food lol. I leave the windows open when I park in the garage after bringing dinner home because it airs out the smell. I was thinking perhaps RH left food in the car to claim he didn't notice an odor from Cooper because of the rancid CFA, or something like that, since I think he is as guilty as the day is long! Thanks for clarifying though!

 

[Hope4More]

Hope, you would be masterful in the jury room as foreperson. I do hope that this jury has someone as passionate as yourself about JRHs innocence of intentionally killing his son. Do not think for one moment that your eloquent argument is falling upon deaf ears.

I watched the PC Hearing in a livestreamed ChatRoom. There was one after the other inaudible gasps as the testimony from Stoddard was placed on the record into Cooper's murder investigation. However, I had done my homework and vetted this family and their friends first. Hence, I came to the trial with a no nonsense approach that this mad man premeditated a life that no longer included his son.

Perhaps, I awoke feeling generous, to find myself almost willing to give JRH the benefit of the reasonable doubt. But, no. JRH was walking in darkness as a veil covered his eyes when he allowed evil to enter his repetitive thoughts, his written or left unwritten words, whether spoken or left unspoken, and years upon years, or for six of the last eight years where they were a married couple, that ultimately led him to a lifestyle of illicit deeds and illegal actions because JRH, admittedly, has no conscious, without which, one cannot truly love.

Thank you for that, though really, I'm not a passionate supporter of his innocence, just a strong believer that the State must prove his guilt, with evidence. IMO they failed to do so, at least on the charge of malice murder.

 

[SuperTmo]

And as alleged by State, (no video shown or obj that I remember) it was posed in a question to Brewer, 4 out of 30 days RH carried a bag in. So that jmho means he ate in the car.

Did he go to CFA every day? No wonder they were having money issues.

 

[MsMarple]

BBM - I take a medication every morning, and it occasionally happens that right after I have taken the medication, I cannot remember whether I just took it or not. I mean, I can be standing there with the prescription bottle in my hand and a glass of water and I can literally not remember if I just took the medicine 30 seconds ago.

IMO this happens because I have taken this medication every morning for the last 15 years. It is so rote and routine, that I do it without consciously paying attention to doing it. When trying to recall, it is pointless to try to trace my steps back and recreate what I just did - I have so many memories/images in my head of taking the medicine, it would be impossible to know whether I was thinking of the medication I just took or just replaying in my head the action I've taken thousands of times. I have to ask my husband if I just took the medicine or if I only got the prescription bottle out and then got distracted.

I saw the same thing with my mom although she had multiple meds - it was concerning. I ended up buying a pill organizer for her. Every Sunday she refilled the little compartments. Eventualy I had to take charge of dispensing her meds because she had reached a point where she depended on me to keep her safe.

If you knew, positively, that missing a dose of your med would result in your death would you take some sort of precaution against forgetting? Would your husband insist on it? Or would the two of you agree that it was your and his worst fear and often talk about it but take no action to prevent it? IMO that wouldn't make any sense. And it doesn't make sense that Ross and Leanna did exactly that.

 

[SuperTmo]

Several have had the opinion that JRH intentionally left Cooper, fully intending to sign in to work or make an appearance then return and take him to daycare. But *something* distracted his attention (sexting?) and he forgot Cooper was in the car.

My question is - would that make a difference in the jury's decision as opposed to just forgetting at the traffic light within minutes of leaving CFA?

Another question - if he somehow did remember Cooper on or around lunch, realized it was too late to save him and waited to drive to another location to "discover" him - is that malice murder?

I honestly think that the lunchtime lightbulb incident is very damaging to his story and may influence some jurors who don't want to believe he did this intentionally.

I would say if he did initially forget somehow and then remembered him at lunch but didn't do anything to help him it is malice murder. He would not have known for sure if Cooper was dead and unable to be revived unless he pulled him out and got him help. I think Cooper was still moving a bit, and RH saw through the window, or Cooper was making noises and RH heard when the door was opened so he promptly shut the door and walked away.

 

[Paige SC]

He actually did have a strong support base, including family and friends

Most family will support the accused regardless of guilt. As for the rest, I guess we will disagree on what constitutes a 'strong support base.'

 

[momoftwocrazies]

What are your thoughts about the tape that was played on Friday, of Leanna finding out. 1. What were they rebutting? 2. What's the strategy here? Why are they dragging her back into this?

By the way, if I was in on the murder or my child, I'd over act. I wouldn't sit quietly and calmly. I do think she was in total shock. I'm just confused what the state is trying to say with that recording. Weird.

 

[minor4th]

I saw the same thing with my mom although she had multiple meds - it was concerning. I ended up buying a pill organizer for her. Every Sunday she refilled the little compartments. Eventualy I had to take charge of dispensing her meds because she had reached a point where she depended on me to keep her safe.

If you knew, positively, that missing a dose of your med would result in your death would you take some sort of precaution against forgetting? Would your husband insist on it? Or would the two of you agree that it was your and his worst fear and often talk about it but take no action to prevent it? IMO that wouldn't make any sense. And it doesn't make sense that Ross and Leanna did exactly that.

There's no comparison, and I'm not trying to make one. Just pointing out that it's certainly possible to not remember something you just did, as difficult as that is to conceive.

I take one medication, and if I do forget to take it there will be physical symptoms that will alert me within an hour or so (nothing serious).

 

[lisette]

What are your thoughts about the tape that was played on Friday, of Leanna finding out. 1. What were they rebutting? 2. What's the strategy here? Why are they dragging her back into this?

By the way, if I was in on the murder or my child, I'd over act. I wouldn't sit quietly and calmly. I do think she was in total shock. I'm just confused what the state is trying to say with that recording. Weird.

I think the main thing they wanted to show with the tape was Leanna saying that leaving Cooper in the car was her biggest fear and that SHE AND ROSS HAD DISCUSSED IT (more than once, I think). The point being that he should have taken extra steps to make sure that didn't happen, and also, that his interest in that and the pet video showed the possibility that the idea was planted in his mind. That was what I took from them using the tape in rebuttal...JMO

 

[minor4th]

Most family will support the accused regardless of guilt. As for the rest, I guess we will disagree on what constitutes a 'strong support base.'

Guilt or innocence has nothing to do with whether he had a strong support base.

He had a number of friends and family to testify about his relationship with Cooper. He also had work friends he ate with every day. He was in a church band and was described by all as very social. None of this prints a picture of a guy who was socially isolated or without support.

 

[minor4th]

What are your thoughts about the tape that was played on Friday, of Leanna finding out. 1. What were they rebutting? 2. What's the strategy here? Why are they dragging her back into this?

By the way, if I was in on the murder or my child, I'd over act. I wouldn't sit quietly and calmly. I do think she was in total shock. I'm just confused what the state is trying to say with that recording. Weird.

Good question. I was wondering what exactly they were trying to rebut. It almost seemed to me that they wanted to imply Leanna was in on it so the jury shouldn't believe her testimony.

 

[SuperTmo]

I predict a verdict on Tuesday morning because I will be chaperoning a field trip. I always miss the verdicts.

 

[monkeypants]

BBM - I take a medication every morning, and it occasionally happens that right after I have taken the medication, I cannot remember whether I just took it or not. I mean, I can be standing there with the prescription bottle in my hand and a glass of water and I can literally not remember if I just took the medicine 30 seconds ago.

IMO this happens because I have taken this medication every morning for the last 15 years. It is so rote and routine, that I do it without consciously paying attention to doing it. When trying to recall, it is pointless to try to trace my steps back and recreate what I just did - I have so many memories/images in my head of taking the medicine, it would be impossible to know whether I was thinking of the medication I just took or just replaying in my head the action I've taken thousands of times. I have to ask my husband if I just took the medicine or if I only got the prescription bottle out and then got distracted.

My mom used to do the same thing...I got her a month size pill container that has days of the week on the compartment covers. She would get her refill and immediately put them in the holder in the right dosage...voila no more issue.

That was just for your issue.

I cannot equate a baby that you just had a very special breakfast with that is positioned at your elbow, that had just spoken the location the car was to be headed as the same thing as your pills. Sorry.

 

[monkeypants]

I would say if he did initially forget somehow and then remembered him at lunch but didn't do anything to help him it is malice murder. He would not have known for sure if Cooper was dead and unable to be revived unless he pulled him out and got him help. I think Cooper was still moving a bit, and RH saw through the window, or Cooper was making noises and RH heard when the door was opened so he promptly shut the door and walked away.

And what if cooper saw RH and weakly cried out to him for help and RH closed the door on him AGAIN?

 

[Paige SC]

BBM - I take a medication every morning, and it occasionally happens that right after I have taken the medication, I cannot remember whether I just took it or not. I mean, I can be standing there with the prescription bottle in my hand and a glass of water and I can literally not remember if I just took the medicine 30 seconds ago.

IMO this happens because I have taken this medication every morning for the last 15 years. It is so rote and routine, that I do it without consciously paying attention to doing it. When trying to recall, it is pointless to try to trace my steps back and recreate what I just did - I have so many memories/images in my head of taking the medicine, it would be impossible to know whether I was thinking of the medication I just took or just replaying in my head the action I've taken thousands of times. I have to ask my husband if I just took the medicine or if I only got the prescription bottle out and then got distracted.

Some things such as forgetting if you just took your meds are normal. I do that at least twice a week. I've never forgotten how to take my medication, however. I've forgotten to pay bills and I've left my wallet behind in the grocery store. ‎I've also put peanut butter in the fridge and have no recollection of ever doing it. Pretty sure I've never put my baby in a fridge, though.

Medication, peanut butter & bills aren't babies. I've never left my baby behind in the grocery store. Have you? I never forgot to feed my toddler but many, many times I forget to eat.

Human are unique in that we have memory and even though we are prone to forgetting things, we also come equipped with motherboard containing vast data banks known as the subconscious and unconscious. This makes it possible (even likely) to forget certain things but never forget others.

We don't remember if we just took OUR meds but we're pretty good about remembering to give our kids THEIR meds. We don't *forget* to go to work every day, even though it's as routine as taking our daily meds. I might leave my purse in a hot car for seven hours in June but I'd never leave my baby in one. I OFTEN forget where I put my carkeys (it's quite pathological) but I've never misplaced my children. Have you ever misplaced your child or left them in a hot car for seven hours?‎
‎