Trial - Ross Harris #9

[DexterMorgan]

Wasn't most of his text replies during the relevant 9-10 am hours consist of like 2 word replies.

I didn't see him truly engaging in full length texting. He replied things like Agree or something simple.

So his defense should have said he forgot because he was worried about getting fired that day for missing the deadline for his assignment or something. Idk

 

[monkeypants]

Wasn't most of his text replies during the relevant 9-10 am hours consist of like 2 word replies.

I didn't see him truly engaging in full length texting. He replied things like Agree or something simple.

So his defense should have said he forgot because he was worried about getting fired that day for missing the deadline for his assignment or something. Idk

But strolled in late and took lunch and left early...
:gaah:

 

[NCTeacher]

I predict a verdict on Tuesday morning because I will be chaperoning a field trip. I always miss the verdicts.

LOL. I'm a teacher and incidentally I am OUT on Wednesday for a doctor's appointment (which I conveniently scheduled the day after the election in case I need some time to recuperate, ) I am HOPING for a Wednesday verdict. Certainly not Tuesday. For the love of God and all that is holy, the verdict and the election cannot compete or I will go crazy!!!!

 

[monkeypants]

His coworkers said he spoke of cooper all the time, even showed them pics if he got a new shirt etc...but that morning when someone says hey Ross how ya doing? He doesn't say I'm fantastic...had a great daddy and son breakfast today!

 

[LibertyandJustice4]

---------The defense touched on how Dr. Diamond worked and how he would be used in these types of cases. He is initially paid $5,000 to look into the case and investigate. Then, after he investigates, he is paid another $5,000. But Diamond said he will only testify in cases he determines to be accidents.------------------------------

RSBM
I wonder exactly how Dr. D feels as though he can make that determination.

 

[Boodles]

BBM - I take a medication every morning, and it occasionally happens that right after I have taken the medication, I cannot remember whether I just took it or not. I mean, I can be standing there with the prescription bottle in my hand and a glass of water and I can literally not remember if I just took the medicine 30 seconds ago.

IMO this happens because I have taken this medication every morning for the last 15 years. It is so rote and routine, that I do it without consciously paying attention to doing it. When trying to recall, it is pointless to try to trace my steps back and recreate what I just did - I have so many memories/images in my head of taking the medicine, it would be impossible to know whether I was thinking of the medication I just took or just replaying in my head the action I've taken thousands of times. I have to ask my husband if I just took the medicine or if I only got the prescription bottle out and then got distracted.

I have the same issue. I literally forget and wonder "did I take my meds?" But, there are differences. First, it's taking meds, not the welfare of my child that's in question (and I won't die if I forget my meds one day, so it's not a life/death matter), but second and more importantly, I remember to wonder whether I took my meds! I don't forget about meds altogether, I just can't recall whether I took them. I do a reverse review, and sometimes find a cue to remind me whether I did or not, but sometimes it's just a big blank. So I decide what to do: take more or let it slide. But I think about the meds, and you do, too! You just can't recall your action.

Ross didn't think about Cooper? Nothing triggered him all day?

 

[LibertyandJustice4]

I found one where the mother intentionally left her kids in the car to freeze to death. (They survived). https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...LpqDq4AQJrPeCU0vCXW51A&bvm=bv.137904068,d.cGc

And several where the kids were left in a freezing car either by negligence or child endangerment:

http://www.kiro7.com/news/milton-father-charged-leaving-baby-freezing-car-ov/39997405

http://time.com/4166719/couple-arrested-kids-cold-car/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-inside-freezing-car-watch-football-game.html

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...ght-freezing-car-dad-arrest-article-1.2105576

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/police-mother-leaves-baby-in-freezing-car-at-massachusetts-outlets/

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...4TxXe_jLF3-txrjnA&sig2=DmYeJvTnc3xEFPraHry0WA

RSBM even though the rest of your post was very good and I agree 100%.

Yeah, when I researched, I found a bunch done via neglect. It actually made me wonder if some of these summer parents didn't maybe take a shot of alcohol or something before driving off and forgetting, or something more mild along those lines that contributed to a distracted state of mind. If you take a couple shots of alcohol before going to work and don't say anything about it, no one is ever going to know that's what happened. Most of the winter ones were done on purpose or when the parent was doing something else such as drinking or gambling.

 

[Paige SC]

Guilt or innocence has nothing to do with whether he had a strong support base.

He had a number of friends and family to testify about his relationship with Cooper. He also had work friends he ate with every day. He was in a church band and was described by all as very social. None of this prints a picture of a guy who was socially isolated or without support.

Again, what you consider a strong support base isn't what I consider to be one.‎ People can have MANY acquaintances but lack meaningful relationships and true friendships.

My friends know me, they know my shortcomings and strong points. If testifying on my behalf, they would say I was a fabulous parent BUT they would also say they've witnessed me lose my temper with my kids. They'd say I desperately love my kids but that it chaps my a$$ to no end when they destroy the house or refuse to eat the dinner I spent *advertiser censored* hours making. They would point out I'm a loving mom but I didn't love all over my son after he took lipstick and drew on my brand new carpet with it.

If they said 'I've never seen her raise her voice to her son" or that 'she's ALWAYS loving towards him' or that they had no idea I was running a meth lab in my basement, simply put; they don't know me any better than the neighbor down the street knows me.

And for the record, I never said his guilt or innocence is dictated by his support system (or lack thereof.) It's MY OPINION however, that he lacks the ability to bond and develop meaningful relationships with people including his own wife and child. He's a garden variety sociopath void of a conscious. It's all about the exterior with RH because there is no interior.‎

 

[Nana46]

I am a lot the same way with meds....nothing life shattering but one I only take on Sunday.....so in order to really KNOW is I take it, I write it on the calendar....I made a conscious effort to prevent the did I/did I not/take it by only writing the name of the medicine. and a check mark on the date...otherwise I might wonder if I did or not as I do have that happen at times...and it is a multiple dose so not like taking only one pill....that is the reason I don't want to worry if I did or did not....and I don't even pick up the pen until I have taken the medicine....works for me but is probably way off topic and TMI,lol.

 

[DexterMorgan]

I think if the trial was closer to home ; He would have more attendees.

Plus people have to pay bills and work during his court hours.

But I'm sure they send him letters or give him money for jail snacks or whatever.

 

[monkeypants]

Again, what you consider a strong support base isn't what I consider to be one.‎ People can have MANY acquaintances but lack meaningful relationships and true friendships.

My friends know me, they know my shortcomings and strong points. If testifying on my behalf, they would say I was a fabulous parent BUT they would also say they've witnessed me lose my temper with my kids. They'd say I desperately love my kids but that it chaps my a$$ to no end when they destroy the house or refuse to eat the dinner I spent *advertiser censored* hours making. They would point out I'm a loving mom but I didn't love all over my son after he took lipstick and drew on my brand new carpet with it.

If they said 'I've never seen her raise her voice to her son" or that 'she's ALWAYS loving towards him' or that they had no idea I was running a meth lab in my basement, simply put; they don't know me any better than the neighbor down the street knows me.

And for the record, I never said his guilt or innocence is dictated by his support system (or lack thereof.) It's MY OPINION however, that he lacks the ability to bond and develop meaningful relationships with people including his own wife and child. He's a garden variety sociopath void of a conscious. It's all about the exterior with RH because there is no interior.‎

Ugh sorry for the OT but mine did the same with a bright pink on tan carpet. Pm me if you know how to remove

I totally agree with you on what's true friends would say under oath, imo Ross has acquaintances that didn't do him any favors

 

[Nana46]

I hope I don't get this hooked on another trial anytime soon,lol......the Casey Anthony and Jodie Arias trials literally wore me out.....I swore I would not get into another one like those but here I am dang it!

 

[ScotAng]

Apropos of nothing being discussed at the minute. Kinda. David Diamond related, for anyone interested.

I was scouting about outside w/s, reading others' opinions on how each side done, and the spec re Dr Diamond's non-appearance, etc. I'd read the links posted here about him and some of his own words. I really looked forward to hearing his testimony and was so disappointed, like most of us, that we didn't get to hear him.

It got my mind wondering about him some more. Some here mentioned how well he comes across, and as I've too much time on my hands (awol hubs), I watched a few of his presentations on Youtube. One titled Demonisation and deception in Cholesterol Research intrigued me as it seemed a real departure from his 'norm', so I watched it. Then watched another - along similar lines, in relation to obesity. Cynics amongst us, ie me, could argue this diversion as another money spinner for him. I don't believe so - I realise I'm arguing against my self here....

I thought I'd be bored along the 'heard it all before' lines. I had heard a lot of it before, but he has a way with him, so I watched 'till the end. I agreed with a lot of what he said, and learned some things. He had the audience (and me) laughing within the first minute. He's very articulate, but a comfortable speaker. He has an easy, open, and I thought, honest air about him. It does him no harm he's also easy on the eye. Disclaimer: just an ob, not meant to be sexist - looks would NOT sway me as juror.

I'm cynical about FBS, a cynic by nature admittedly, though always open to persuasion and debate.

The 11Alive reporter Duffy (?) commenting after Brewer's testimony, said the jury were so interested in him, that it was the most engaged she'd seen them. To the extent some jurors were nodding along. I was even more interested in hearing Diamond's testimony then.

He made use of many graphs, charts, quotes, slides, etc., in the presentation I watched. I have no doubt in my mind he was the '50 slides' witness. He was a crucial witness for the defence. He is very big on honesty. It has me seriously considering his non appearance being relative to Brewer's testimony/cross. imo

 

[minor4th]

RSBM even though the rest of your post was very good and I agree 100%.

Yeah, when I researched, I found a bunch done via neglect. It actually made me wonder if some of these summer parents didn't maybe take a shot of alcohol or something before driving off and forgetting, or something more mild along those lines that contributed to a distracted state of mind. If you take a couple shots of alcohol before going to work and don't say anything about it, no one is ever going to know that's what happened. Most of the winter ones were done on purpose or when the parent was doing something else such as drinking or gambling.

For sure there were some where alcohol or drugs were involved.

 

[momoftwocrazies]

Some of you have mentioned Coopers funeral.... can someone link the video to that? Thanks!

 

[NCTeacher]

His coworkers said he spoke of cooper all the time, even showed them pics if he got a new shirt etc...but that morning when someone says hey Ross how ya doing? He doesn't say I'm fantastic...had a great daddy and son breakfast today!

I'll admit, I did not watch the early testimony because it would be too much for me to handle emotionally. Did he tell a co-worker that they had a great daddy and son breakfast day?? Or were you being facetious?

 

[Safeguard]

Ugh sorry for the OT but mine did the same with a bright pink on tan carpet. Pm me if you know how to remove

I totally agree with you on what's true friends would say under oath, imo Ross has acquaintances that didn't do him any favors

OT:
Hairspray gets out lipstick(Also removes ink!). Google for detailed instructions. (I've used it, it did work, sometimes took a few washes though.)

 

[gitana1]

No, but the more there are, in such a short time from the 'memory lapse', the greater likelihood one's memory would be triggered. And Dr Diamond spoke about that in other cases where clients memories were triggered and they ran screaming to the car to try and save their dead children. [ Baby RayRay was one example linked upthread somewhere.]

And imo, after reading a dozen cases of FBS, this particular case does not fit the scenario.

People say that it only 'takes a second' to forget. But that has to be taken into context. In other cases, there are a few things that add to the likelihood of the FBS kicking in.

Undue Stress, fatigue, sudden Change in Routine, and the time needed to forget and to create a false memory, to replace the reality.

I don't see that Ross had all of that. How stressed was he that he takes the baby to sit down breakfast, researches a cruise for his wife and himself, has 7 women to engage in conversation, goes to lunch, leaves work early for a movie, etc. How tired is he if he didn't just go home after work instead? And it was not a change of routine. He drove him to DC almost every day. And he often took him through the drive thru of CFA before dropping him off, so I don't buy that sudden change of routine= 'automatic lapse' in memory scenario here.

Within that first 40 seconds, how does he erase Cooper's presence from his memory bank and create a new false memory, all while there are memory clues surrounding him. And while he is having an ongoing conversation about needing a break from him. I just don't think it is possible. In the other cases there is a much longer drive, and the parent has time to be lulled into a new reality. They would have time to get into deep thoughts and then have a lapse and a false memory created in it's place.

But in 40 seconds, while his day care is visible in the rear view mirror, and the baby's seat is inches away, and he is reading the text from the woman, saying she needed a break from family duties? IO just have a really hard time accepting that he innocently forgot. It is MORE likely, in my jaded opinion, that he just decided to pull the trigger that day and make a bold ugly move for freedom and a new life.

I understand those who feel the state hasn't proved malice murder. I don;t think that's a ridiculous or "stupid" position to take. There's definite logic behind it. There just seems to be a great division between those who feel forgetting a child under these circumstances is possible and those who don't. And it's true, the state has the burden.

For me, I look in part at my own life. I have had those horse to barn moments many, many times. I'm driving along to a location and suddenly find myself driving the wrong way, but to a direction - like work or home - that I drive frequently. So I get the possibility of the brain instantly dumping a memory of something routine that you just did, like closing the fridge door, or even strapping baby in the car seat, combined with autopilot that can cause a harried, tired or distracted parent to forget where they were going.

But I know for a fact that with me, that autopilot driving sensation occurs after a few minutes of driving. Not right when I pull out of the driveway. Not while I'm still parked. Not while I'm at an intersection. Because the mechanism that causes that brain lull seems to kick in when we are doing a task that involves moving without thinking or decision making or being alert. So that would be driving on a highway, freeway, long road without many stops. Not at an intersection where you have to be alert for the change of the light, or oncoming traffic, etc. It really seems like the lull happens when you're just driving along in a stretch where you don;t have to brake. Or pause much. And didn't Ross sit at the intersection for a while before deciding to keep going forward?

 

[La Louve]

Things that tip me toward the malice murder side of the fence:

Coopers parents have stated they were aware of the risk, it was their biggest fear, yet they did nothing to prevent it from happening. This does not make sense. It's like they stopped one step short from completing the problem solving process. Both of them are college grads iirc, worked in jobs that required problem solving, showed problem solving skills in other parts of their lives, so I can't reasonably believe that when it comes to leaving their child in the car they turned into the stupidest people on the planet and put absolutely no measures in place to prevent it from happening.

I've had similar to the pill problem and have then counted out pills on the counter, doing the math to see if there's one extra. I also often forget if my garage door has shut completely when I leave for work in the morning. Sometimes the routine image of it in my brain - and the fact that it's morning and I am not mentally as sharp as I am later in the day - makes it hard for me to remember correctly. If that's the situation I then drive around the block to drive by my house and check the door. And never once have I found the door open when I when back to check.

But Cooper's parents didn't do anything to solve the most scary problem they were aware of, and I can't find any reasonable explanation in defense of that.

We used to have a saying when I was growing up in the Pleistocene - "accidentally on purpose" - often applied to unplanned pregnancies. Having followed this case since the day it hit the news and WS, my gut tells me Cooper's death wasn't purely accidental but rather an accident on purpose.

Another thing that bothers me and I hate thinking about is the lunchtime light bulb drop off. If Cooper wasn't already dead, he was likely suffering greatly. I really can't get past that . I've yet to read a reasonable defense of that one.

Just my $0.02

Really appreciate the variety of discourse here. I would not want to be a juror on this case.

 

[GA_Peach]

No, but the more there are, in such a short time from the 'memory lapse', the greater likelihood one's memory would be triggered. And Dr Diamond spoke about that in other cases where clients memories were triggered and they ran screaming to the car to try and save their dead children. [ Baby RayRay was one example linked upthread somewhere.]

And imo, after reading a dozen cases of FBS, this particular case does not fit the scenario.

People say that it only 'takes a second' to forget. But that has to be taken into context. In other cases, there are a few things that add to the likelihood of the FBS kicking in.

Undue Stress, fatigue, sudden Change in Routine, and the time needed to forget and to create a false memory, to replace the reality.

I don't see that Ross had all of that. How stressed was he that he takes the baby to sit down breakfast, researches a cruise for his wife and himself, has 7 women to engage in conversation, goes to lunch, leaves work early for a movie, etc. How tired is he if he didn't just go home after work instead? And it was not a change of routine. He drove him to DC almost every day. And he often took him through the drive thru of CFA before dropping him off, so I don't buy that sudden change of routine= 'automatic lapse' in memory scenario here.

Within that first 40 seconds, how does he erase Cooper's presence from his memory bank and create a new false memory, all while there are memory clues surrounding him. And while he is having an ongoing conversation about needing a break from him. I just don't think it is possible. In the other cases there is a much longer drive, and the parent has time to be lulled into a new reality. They would have time to get into deep thoughts and then have a lapse and a false memory created in it's place.

But in 40 seconds, while his day care is visible in the rear view mirror, and the baby's seat is inches away, and he is reading the text from the woman, saying she needed a break from family duties? IO just have a really hard time accepting that he innocently forgot. It is MORE likely, in my jaded opinion, that he just decided to pull the trigger that day and make a bold ugly move for freedom and a new life.

I wholeheartedly agree with all of this. How does Ross forget when he is surrounded by memory clues? For me, that is the one question that I cannot overlook.