trial thread: 3/21/2012

[dilbert]

I think the knife wasn't used because it would cause a mess of blood and Rafferty wanted to avoid that. He allegedly walked around without any pants on during this whole phase of the crime, he didn't even bother putting them back on again probably to avoid getting any more blood on him. JMO

I have always wondered how he got his pants off but was able to leave his shoes on? I always have a difficult time getting my pant legs over my shoes, do you think he took his shoes off to take his pants off, then put his shoes back on again?

 

[ChaChaCha]

Don't you think the defense would've questioned Tara if that was the case. They didn't go there which imo suggests there was no revenge motive. It was a thrill kill and sadly, Tori was the one. If not Tori, it would've been another innocent little girl.

It aint over til the fat lady sings. That is exactly where the defence is going with this ... TLM being "mildly vindictive" - they are painting her in vibrant colors using her own words and photos. If you search the phrase "mildly vindictive" from the beginning of the Tori threads, it becomes readily apparent that at one point, when Tori had not been returned to TM by the next morning, she was quoted as saying that someone was being mildly vindictive in keeping Tori from returning home from school. Also at that time there was a huge ruckus that TM and JG owed a large amount on a drug debt .... said to be $30k?... which both of them vehemently denied.

If you recall TM's testimony last week, she was specifically asked by the Crown about whether at that time she owed money to a third party on account of a drug deal. She answered no, but did admit that JG had ripped someone off for drugs/money.

Fast forward to the trial when TLM was asked whether she knew TM or JG ... TLM had met JG more times than she had met TM when he bought oxys from TLM's mother. No need to interrogate TM ... that ship has sailed. It begs the question though whether TLM's beef was with JG? In any case, there was no way that either TM or JG could have foreseen the future when they met TLM ...

BUT it is my opinion that the defence is going to go down this road ... that the kidnapping was all TLM's idea ... as evidenced by the prison writings.

My grandma always told me that a leopard don't change its spots - of course she was talking about men at the time, but it goes for most people - TLM included.

JMO

 

[antiquegirl]

I have always wondered how he got his pants off but was able to leave his shoes on? I always have a difficult time getting my pant legs over my shoes, do you think he took his shoes off to take his pants off, then put his shoes back on again?

Only to discard them again a few minutes later off the side of the highway?

 

[swedie]

Good question HK and the only answer I can think of is fear, in that things had escalated so far out of control and he was in it up to his neck.

Just imo.

FEAR?! Sorry I can't see a grown man of 28 years being afraid of some gangster wannabe chick. Many reports from women claimed he was a cry baby but his means of crying had nothing to do with fear. No offense Rose but I do not believe MR was afraid. :moo:

 

[antiquegirl]

So, hammer blows to the head were chosen over a knife to cut down on blood loss? Head wounds from blunt force trauma bleed like a son of a gun. If any of you have ever had a child accidentally smash their head into a piece of furniture, you'd know what I mean. I once took my toddler to emergency because she bumped into the corner of a table and we couldn't get it to stop bleeding. It turned out to be nothing, thankfully, but the amount of blood was scary. If the aim was to have little or no blood in a premeditated murder of an 8 year old, I think strangulation or suffocation would have been the best bet. (And I apologize for being graphic here.)

JMO

 

[swedie]

Taken from the police video transcripts;



She was just trying to take in the surroundings?? Alrighty then...

http://www.am980.ca/Other/McClinticVideoTranscript.pdf

Yes so she could give a better description to the police if and when they caught her and MR. She obviously did pretty good with her description of the landmarks and surroundings for Det. Smyth to find Tori's remains. :moo:

 

[flipflop]

In the interview, every time TLM was asked a question that she wasn't quite sure of how to answer, she took a long pause, to formulate her response. She made very little eye contact with the detective.

Then, this little meek and mild whiny voice asked ... "Can I have a smoke"?

She is only big and bad up against a defenseless, innocent little child.

:moo::moo::moo:

In the interview, I noticed that when asked a question about the actual murder she hummed and hawed, blew her nose, thought about it for a bit and then answered with a low, slow and broken comment with no eye contact or she said I don't remember. If she was asked about the area, she seemed to answer a bit faster, firmer voice and more detailed comments and actually looked at Smyth when doing speaking. JMO-the conversation about the murder was a lie, therefore she had to think about what she said before speaking. The conversation about the scene was the truth, which is easier to recall and this conversation showed a bit more confidence.

 

[Hello_Kitty]

Good question HK and the only answer I can think of is fear, in that things had escalated so far out of control and he was in it up to his neck.

Just imo.

Here is the transcript of the video:



http://www.am980.ca/Other/McClinticVideoTranscript.pdf

This is much easier to handle than her sniveling and sniffling.

 

[ChaChaCha]

Yes so she could give a better description to the police if and when they caught her and MR. She obviously did pretty good with her description of the landmarks and surroundings for Det. Smyth to find Tori's remains. :moo:

Just standing around, waiting for her turn ... in any case, that is what she says now ... the nice TLM, the one who abducted a child, bought a hammer, and used to write bad letters and remininced at her sentencing about the time that she and Tori spent together....

Hmmm, she doesn't seem too credible to me ... its whichever way the wind blows at the moment.

JMO

 

[Hello_Kitty]

In the interview, I noticed that when asked a question about the actual murder she hummed and hawed, blew her nose, thought about it for a bit and then answered with a low, slow and broken comment with no eye contact or she said I don't remember. If she was asked about the area, she seemed to answer a bit faster, firmer voice and more detailed comments and actually looked at Smyth when doing speaking. JMO-the conversation about the murder was a lie, therefore she had to think about what she said before speaking. The conversation about the scene was the truth, which is easier to recall and this conversation showed a bit more confidence.

And apparently (according to Smyth) she described the "sex part" with the same confidence as she is discussing the area.

 

[ChaChaCha]

And apparently (according to Smyth) she described the "sex part" with the same confidence as she is discussing the area.

It is her description of the abuse that actually makes me believe that it did indeed happen as she says ... I won't go into details, but one statement in particular gave me the chills. While parts of her police statement and testimony at trial appear to be self-serving, in my opinion there is a lot of truth in that part of her testimony.

 

[swedie]

I have always wondered how he got his pants off but was able to leave his shoes on? I always have a difficult time getting my pant legs over my shoes, do you think he took his shoes off to take his pants off, then put his shoes back on again?

I have seen nothing stating yet that MR left his shoes on. Could you please find that information for me? He would have obviously taken his shoes off, then his pants. Why would he need his shoes on while raping an eight year old in the backseat of his car? Doesn't make sense to me. :waitasec: Once he was finished his sexual torture of Tori, he may have put his shoes back on because we know the ground was cold. For some people the cold ground would be no problem to walk on. And being he was on drugs, the cold wouldn't bother him. I'm sure he was having a big adrenalin rush going on also. He more than likely put his shoes back on to carry Tori's body to the rock pile and could have gotten blood on them then, this would be the reason for pitching them out his car window. :moo::moo:

 

[Wondergirl]

After watching how confident Rodney was in the media scrum today, regarding both versions of TLM's testimony, I feel sure that LE has the evidence it needs in this case.

It's my opinion, that both TLM and MTR were both fulfilling sick fantasies that day.

Rest peacefully, little Tori, justice will prevail.

Raw Video: Day 10 Comments from Rodney Stafford:

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/03/21/19531576.html

 

[roseofsharon]

FEAR?! Sorry I can't see a grown man of 28 years being afraid of some gangster wannabe chick. Many reports from women claimed he was a cry baby but his means of crying had nothing to do with fear. No offense Rose but I do not believe MR was afraid. :moo:

I agree, I don't think he was afraid of TLM, I meant he was in so deep, so he had to go along with TLM. His fear ... LE. Just imo.

P.S. I think this is why he was kissing her butt, while she was in jail on another matter.

 

[roseofsharon]

I haven't heard TLM once say that TS was crying. Have I missed that somewhere. IMO, a child would have been hysterical after such an act.

Why would MR need to remove pants, couldn't they have been down to his ankles, shoes on?

Not saying this didn't happen, however, the whole descriptive by TLM is just too crime novelish. I don't know how else to describe it.

Just IMO

 

[swedie]

This link is of "The Unsent Letter" theory I mentioned in an earlier post. I would not be surprised if the detention centre(s) TLM was in when she wrote those letters, had her do these writings for therapeutic reasons. Thus being how the defense was able to get their hands on them. They had been saved in TLM's files. TLM was putting all her pent up rage, suffering and emotions to paper and she was wanting to give out (in her mind only) some of the suffering she endured in her 18 years before this crime. Just so happens when MR gave her the opportunity to bring all that pent up stuff out, she either reacted upon it or retracted back to the state of being that abused, suffering child she was. TLM may now be claiming she is the one who hit Tori with the hammer because she is finding inner peace in prison and is quite willing to remain there. Whereas, if she ended being released in 15-25 years down the road, that thought alone could cause her great panic and stress. Just my theory and opinion. These types of people are not born this way, they are made this way through neglect and abuse to name a couple. TLM very well could also have suffered from FAS. Whatever her situation is, I sure hope she now gets the help she so deserved far too many years ago. :moo:

http://www.freelancewriting.com/articles/a-powerful-journaling-tool.php

 

[dilbert]

About MR taking his pants off, did he takes his shoes off first, then take his pants off, assault Tori, throw her out of the car then boot her with his bare feet? That had to have hurt. (his foot)

 

[swedie]

I haven't heard TLM once say that TS was crying. Have I missed that somewhere. IMO, a child would have been hysterical after such an act.

Why would MR need to remove pants, couldn't they have been down to his ankles, shoes on?

Not saying this didn't happen, however, the whole descriptive by TLM is just too crime novelish. I don't know how else to describe it.

Just IMO

Sharon there have been many tweet where TLM said Tori was crying and begging "T T don't let him do this to me". Tori asked TLM not to leave her with MR after TL took her for a piddle in front of his car. Tori begged TL not to leave her with MR. TL claims she sat in the front seat and held Tori's hand briefly while MR was assaulting her, but it got to be too much for TL and she let go of Tori's hand and ran away from the car. She said she couldn't bare to be there in the car.

MR removed his pants so he wouldn't get blood from Tori on them. Not to be disgusting here, but we're talking about a full grown man penetrating a tiny little eight year old girl.

IMHO it's not novelish, it's too nightmarish. To think about what Tori went through is just totally disgusting. I bet these two will both spend their lives in jail in segregation. I am praying they do. I really cannot see it any other way. "It's not about who did what, it's about who was involved, they did this together". :moo:

 

[flipflop]

About the MR taking his pants off, did he takes his shoes off first, then take his pants off, assault Tori, throw her out of the car then boot her with his bare feet? That had to have hurt. (his foot)

Smyth did ask TLM in the interview if MR had his shoes on when she returned VS to the car. She said "I don't remember"

JMO I believe MR removed his pants to avoid getting anything on them, therefore removing his shoes prior to his pants, then slipping shoes back on when he got out of the car.

 

[matou]

I would think MR put his shoes back on. There was snow on the ground. JMO