trial thread: 3/7/2012

[Wondergirl]

Defence puts mom on trial

Tara McDonald never flinched as she sat in the witness box and was tarred and feathered as a terrible mother. Not enough that she lost her precious daughter Tori to murder, that her little girl was stolen, raped and viciously hammered to death. Not enough that she had to wait 103 days before her child's remains were finally found and her eight-year-old Princess Chubchubs could be laid to rest.

Not enough that she suffered the rumours and innuendo of accusation that swirled around not only her small city of Woodstock, but the nation as well.

No, on top of all that, McDonald, 33, had to take the stand and be grilled as if she were the one on trial for killing Tori Stafford and not Michael Rafferty, the pasty man sitting in the prisoner's dock.

But before the tough questioning from Rafferty's defence lawyer, prosecutors tried their best to blunt what was coming by having McDonald herself testify about the unsavoury parts of her story.


http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/03/07/19474236.html

 

[ChaChaCha]

So what you're saying is that MR is wasting the taxpayers money and taking up valuable court time by pleading not guilty and taking this to trial to get his version of the story out there to try to lessen his own culpablility and try to paint himself in a better light, even though he did actually participate in this crime?

Maybe he should have confessed and saved a lot of time, money LE effort and heartbreak right after it happened if he wanted to get his story out for public consumption first? :waitasec:

He could still have pled guilty with his own statement of facts and let the public compare both his statement and TLM's statement to decide who was the most evil.

I guess he's trying to prevent that dangerous offender designation? Does anyone know if that is even up for consideration?

MOO

Exactly!!! The end result is the same! He was there - he participated in one form or another and the Crown can prove it - but they are trying to mitigate their losses by pleading that he was duped or blindsided by TLM . At this point it is NOT in my opinion about whether he is technically guilty as charged - they are trying to beat a murder rap. Never mind the dangerous offender designation - in the end he will receive the same sentence as TLM. Depending upon of course whether the jury feels sorry for him or if the Crown educates them as to the letter of the law. Just saying ... law clerk here lol!

 

[Salem]

I don't get that ~ she plead guilty to murder...she got life in prison...she didn't cut any deals...how much worse could it get??

I don't have an answer. It is interesting.... maybe she was embarassed to admit that she knew Tori and didn't want to make herself look worse then she already did? Maybe she still felt the need to hide the drug connection? Maybe she didn't realize that she wasn't going to get a "sweet" deal? It is hard to imagine what she was thinking, but it sure is beginning to look like she lied.... That must be what the prosecutor was referrering to? Originally, I thought he said that for strategical purposes, but now I'm thinking he said it because it is true and the Crown is also going to have work against this lack of credibility from TLM.

:moo:

Salem

 

[Wondergirl]

More info at this article:

n the first visit, Terri-Lynne was leaving as they were coming in, McDonald said.

On the second visit, she and Carol McClintic discussed breeding their Shitzu dogs. She and Goris were in Carol's bedroom, sitting on a futon mattress, when Terri-Lynne came in, McDonald testified.


"She was very, very under the influence. I'm not sure she even knows we were there that day."


McDonald said she and Goris gave up the idea of breeding the dogs, and Carol McClintic called a few times, upset about the failed deal.


In McClintic's house, jurors heard, police found McDonald and Goris's phone number written on a liner note from a 2003 hip hop CD called Cheers by rapper Obie Trice.


McDonald testified the handwriting was her own.


"I left it there to discuss the dogs."


Police also found part of a cigarette package, with the same phone number, and the address 647 Francis. St. That's the residence to which McDonald and Goris moved in early April 2009.


McDonald testified she didn't recognize that handwriting as either hers or her partner's.


Outside court, Derstine was asked about his second day of cross-examination that focused on the possibility Tori knew her abductor more than previously believed.


"Only one person can really answer that question who's still alive and that person is going to be testifying next week," he said, referring to McClintic.


http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/03/07/19473926.html

 

[antiquegirl]

Wasn't it reported after TLM was arrested she told police she knew Tara but did not know Tori was her child? I use to post here in the beginning. One of the few that never believed Tara was involved. Justice will soon be served.

From today's media Tweets:

Linda Nguyen‏@LindaNguyenPN

McD says #ToriStafford had done poster about not talking to strangers. No way she wouldve gone w someone she didn't know

 

[Wondergirl]

I think it's possible that Tori thought she was going with someone she "knew", because TLM had been grooming her with the ruse of walking her dog.

I don't see how it really changes much, except that a poor 8 year old was duped into her death.

 

[ChaChaCha]

I don't have an answer. It is interesting.... maybe she was embarassed to admit that she knew Tori and didn't want to make herself look worse then she already did? Maybe she still felt the need to hide the drug connection? Maybe she didn't realize that she wasn't going to get a "sweet" deal? It is hard to imagine what she was thinking, but it sure is beginning to look like she lied.... That must be what the prosecutor was referrering to? Originally, I thought he said that for strategical purposes, but now I'm thinking he said it because it is true and the Crown is also going to have work against this lack of credibility from TLM.

:moo:

Salem

I have to agree with you on this one. I recall that her lawyer was "extremely busy" and TLMs guilty plea came down the pipe awfully fast ... perhaps they were negotiating for a sweet deal and she didnt want to paint herself as any worse than she was. All that carp she said at her sentencing too, about carrying Tori in her heart grrrr!

I am sure that TLM's credibility will be at stake.

Now my question is: Were TLM and MR charged with exactly the same crime?

Did TLM\s charges include sexual abuse?

Why has no one asked which of the pair was the sexual abuser? Given TLM's background, I believe that it is entirely possible that she was twisted that way too.

 

[nobodyzgirl]

Defence puts mom on trial

I thought the defence went pretty easy on her. The Crown was the one that called her to the stand as their witness and the defence is allowed to cross examine the Crown's witness, they are trying to create reasonable doubt. I found TM to contradict herself while she was on the stand JMO

 

[Wondergirl]

My opinion is that there is actually more than 1 person who is still alive that knew if TLM had met Tori before. Possibly a few. But, probably won't see him on the witness stand.

Oh, yeah. Is TLM credible or isn't she? Derstine seems to think that she IS BELIEVABLE, if what he is alluding to here is that TLM knew Tori.

I guess maybe some things will be believable, and others not, depending on if it suits the purpose. JMO

Outside court, Derstine was asked about his second day of cross-examination that focused on the possibility Tori knew her abductor more than previously believed.

"Only one person can really answer that question who's still alive and that person is going to be testifying next week," he said, referring to McClintic.


http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/r.../19473926.html

 

[justbetweenus]

I think it's possible that Tori thought she was going with someone she "knew", because TLM had been grooming her with the ruse of walking her dog.

I don't see how it really changes much, except that a poor 8 year old was duped into her death.

I agree with this. And just because a mother teaches, and believes a child would never go off with a stranger doesn't mean they won't.

 

[Wondergirl]

Blatchford: Defence slyly suggests Tori's mom bears some blame

By Christie Blatchford, Postmedia News March 7, 2012

Tara McDonald is the mother of Tori Stafford, the eight-year-old Woodstock, Ont., girl who disappeared on her way home from school on April 8, 2009, and whose partially naked remains weren't found for 103 days.

Michael Rafferty is the blocky 31-year-old man accused of first-degree murder, kidnapping and sexual assault in the little girl's slaying. He is pleading not guilty; his trial here began Monday.


Dirk Derstine is Rafferty's lawyer.


These people intersected in Ontario Superior Court Wednesday at Rafferty's trial in what can only be described as a telling, and less than flattering, illustration of the state of defence lawyering in Canada, circa 2012.


And the lesson is, nothing and no one is sacred in the defence of an accused person like Rafferty - not the mother who not only had to testify about her daughter's last morning but also about her own drug addiction, and not the then 10-year-old brother who didn't walk his sister home that day (but only because he first walked a younger boy home, as he always did, and because by the time he walked by the school again, minutes later, his sister had been kidnapped).


Derstine spoke in a mild tone as he cross-examined McDonald. He was mercifully brief. He was not remotely uncivil.


Yet he managed nonetheless to suggest, slyly and never directly, that she bore some responsibility for what happened, or at the least was a lousy parent.


The lawyer in fact laid the groundwork for this approach the day before, when, in his cross-examination of Laura Perry, another mother who was at the school that day, waiting for her own kids, he called her ``a prudent parent'' because, as he put it, ``That's the safe thing to do.''


http://www.canada.com/Blatchford+Defence+slyly+suggests+Tori+bears+some+blame/6267568/story.html

 

[matou]

Why would MR drive past the school at 9:04am and then again at 3:05 pm unless he was trolling. Was he seeing how fast he could get through the area? Was he looking for a kid who was late for school? Was he looking for a kid who was let out a bit early? He was at the Esso at 3:20 so where was he from 3:05 until 3:20? Just driving around and around? Was he going through the steps with TLM? Maybe he was practicing or building up the nerve to seeing it through. This shows premeditation to me. JMO

 

[antiquegirl]

I don't have an answer. It is interesting.... maybe she was embarassed to admit that she knew Tori and didn't want to make herself look worse then she already did? Maybe she still felt the need to hide the drug connection? Maybe she didn't realize that she wasn't going to get a "sweet" deal? It is hard to imagine what she was thinking, but it sure is beginning to look like she lied.... That must be what the prosecutor was referrering to? Originally, I thought he said that for strategical purposes, but now I'm thinking he said it because it is true and the Crown is also going to have work against this lack of credibility from TLM.

:moo:

Salem

Dr. Gregory House - "Everybody lies."

Some people are just habitual liars. There isn't always an explanation, but I can't wait to find out if there is here.

JMO

 

[maxfactor]

Why would MR drive past the school at 9:04am and then again at 3:05 pm unless he was trolling. Was he seeing how fast he could get through the area? Was he looking for a kid who was late for school? Was he looking for a kid who was let out a bit early? He was at the Esso at 3:20 so where was he from 3:05 until 3:20? Just driving around and around? Was he going through the steps with TLM? Maybe he was practicing or building up the nerve to seeing it through. This shows premeditation to me. JMO

It certainly looks like he was on a mission that day. He could have been looking to see how many parents were around too. Drives past the school at 9:04, shortly after writes "good things are comming my way" on his FB. I'd say it was premeditated.

 

[antiquegirl]

Why would MR drive past the school at 9:04am and then again at 3:05 pm unless he was trolling. Was he seeing how fast he could get through the area? Was he looking for a kid who was late for school? Was he looking for a kid who was let out a bit early? He was at the Esso at 3:20 so where was he from 3:05 until 3:20? Just driving around and around? Was he going through the steps with TLM? Maybe he was practicing or building up the nerve to seeing it through. This shows premeditation to me. JMO

I was wondering the same thing. Why at those times? 9:04 is pretty early to be up and about if you're not working. Could at least one of those trips have nothing to do with the crime? Maybe he was driving TLM somewhere. Maybe he had to run errands for himself or his mother. Maybe he had a job interview. The possibilities are endless. It's not a huge town.

JMO

 

[margaret_diane]

My opinion is that there is actually more than 1 person who is still alive that knew if TLM had met Tori before. Possibly a few. But, probably won't see him on the witness stand.

Oh, yeah. Is TLM credible or isn't she? Derstine seems to think that she IS BELIEVABLE, if what he is alluding to here is that TLM knew Tori.

I guess maybe some things will be believable, and others not, depending on if it suits the purpose. JMO

See who on the stand? Who are you thinking of?

Didn't we hear (was it Derestine?) say recently that the evidence would show just how well TLM knew Tori -- or something to that effect? Was that Derstine who said that?

 

[dar107]

My thoughts are that there is more then dogs as the connection. How do you go from randomly meeting someone walking your dogs and end up discussing possible breeding.....to hey by the way do you have any oxys for sale? I wonder if J.Goris knew CM or TLM much better then has been publicized, I recall the neighbours saying they had seen JG at that house on several occasions, but not TM. The only blame here is on the person who has already confessed, and the one who is on trial ..... but I think the truth always deserves to be told and if Tori was targeted I hope the real story about this will come out in the trial. I know strange things happen and coincidences can be mind-boggling, but I just find it so hard to accept that TLM just happened to take the child of someone her mother sold pills too, someone she talked about breeding dogs with, someone who was in her house on more then one occasion, and have no idea that this little girl belongs that person. In the end nothing changes what happened to this precious little angel, nothing will ever be able to explain the why or how these things happen, how anyone can be so sick in there minds to hurt a child in any way, for any reason.

I was so hopeful when Tori was first taken that she would be found safe, and so heartbroken when we learned that this was not to be. Its been a long wait for this trial, I am praying everyday that justice is served, that Tori can rest in peace and that her family can stay strong with that little angel watching over them.

 

[antiquegirl]

More info at this article:

Just for the record:

So, if those are the two pieces of paper found with TM and JG's phone number on them, where did CM get this from the trial?

Cynthia Mulligan‏@CityCynthia

crown showing tara a photo found in McClintic's house - it's a photo of Tara and her bf with phone her #.

And another reporter quotes TM as saying she left one of the pieces of paper herself.

Linda Nguyen‏@LindaNguyenPN

McDonald says the first piece of paper she had left there when trying to breed their dogs

There are a lot of conflicting reports among the journalists. It's confusing. :waitasec:

 

[flipflop]

My thoughts are that there is more then dogs as the connection. How do you go from randomly meeting someone walking your dogs and end up discussing possible breeding.....to hey by the way do you have any oxys for sale? I wonder if J.Goris knew CM or TLM much better then has been publicized, I recall the neighbours saying they had seen JG at that house on several occasions, but not TM. The only blame here is on the person who has already confessed, and the one who is on trial ..... but I think the truth always deserves to be told and if Tori was targeted I hope the real story about this will come out in the trial. I know strange things happen and coincidences can be mind-boggling, but I just find it so hard to accept that TLM just happened to take the child of someone her mother sold pills too, someone she talked about breeding dogs with, someone who was in her house on more then one occasion, and have no idea that this little girl belongs that person. In the end nothing changes what happened to this precious little angel, nothing will ever be able to explain the why or how these things happen, how anyone can be so sick in there minds to hurt a child in any way, for any reason.

I was so hopeful when Tori was first taken that she would be found safe, and so heartbroken when we learned that this was not to be. Its been a long wait for this trial, I am praying everyday that justice is served, that Tori can rest in peace and that her family can stay strong with that little angel watching over them.

and was it a coincidence that TM's new address was written on a cigarette package found in TLM's house. Who told CM/TLM that they were moving there or why was CM/TLM interested in TM'S address????

 

[Amster]

Tori went too easily....I believe she did know TLM.