Trial Thread 7 May 2012 - Closing Arguments, Defense then the Crown

[Hello_Kitty]

I am looking forward to a verdict. I will, however, very much miss spelling defence with a "c" and calling the prosecution "The Crown". Lol, I am easily amused. JMO

Oh are you American? The Crown is the Queen in case you are curious?

 

[Heliotrope]

Just got to the end of 33 pages, whoo.

It was frustrating to listen to that today, but I was very pleased to see Justice Heeney warn the jury just prior that a suggestion from the lawyer does not make it so.

If the jury strips away the what-ifs and relies on the new and / or corroborating information that the defence provided, well, they could fit it on the head of a pin. The defence may not be obliged to provide evidence showing innocence, but if they could provide any independent testimony from witnesses that would clearly contradict any of the crown evidence, that'd be good.

For example, "My client was with his girlfriend, Stacey, on the night of the crime." Then calls Stacey to the stand, and she swears under oath, "He was with me on the night of the crime." Ta da! There was none of that.

As to their one witness, I said it before and will say it again, TLM could have just walked in the front door and out again to keep moving and avoid making contact with any of the many parents that I'm sure were standing around. It was not an 'aha' moment for me.

I'm looking forward to tomorrow - does anyone know - can the lawyers use a presentation while they're making arguments? Defence really didn't have anything, but the Crown has a lot of images that could have a big impact. Can they run a Power Point summarizing their evidence concurrently, or is it just an old-school speech? TIA.

 

[tmhco]

Oh are you American? The Crown is the Queen in case you are curious?

Yes, we are so boring. Thank you, i think calling them "The Crown" is fabulous!

 

[Salem]

RaffertyLFP: Derstine suggests McClintic cut her hair not because it got gum stuck in it but to change her appearance

On MSN, Rafferty said "he thought he had it all, but all is lost."

McClintic removed lots of her hair, after getting gum in it. Derstine says "bad Michael" makes her alter her appearance. Not herself.

Ummmm..... hair dye????

 

[crazyladi]

I was reading the tweets just now and it said that derstine said that according to Tlm using BA's tools were heat and Had to head to home depot.

Now if I was going to use the word heat like in the sentence that derstine has brought forth it seems to me mtr knew what the plan was and she told him it was heat so go to home depot. Almost as if he suggested whatever tools he had from BA.

Does everyone know what I am getting at or saying? Lol

Hard to type on iPhone

 

[tmhco]

Thanks for joining us through this case tmhco. :O)

i don't know what is about VS but she grabbed my heart. Crime knows no borders. You would think our own crime would keep me occupied,

I do have a special interest in female crimes against children for some reason or another. Motherhood, I suppose. Goes against every fiber of my being. JMO

 

[Salem]

BBM

RaffertyLFP: Derstine turns to the missing back seat of Rafferty's car. He notes Rafferty's neighbors tesitified that he took the seat out in late March

Derstine says the crown will say Tori was raped in the back seat. McClintic was asked to cut chunks out, she testified.

Derstine notes a neighbor of Rafferty's said he saw the seat out if the car in March, before Tori went missing.

RaffertyLFP: Derstine said there was no evidence there was a back seat in the car on April 8

This isn't true though, because there is a scrap of fabric from the back seat and it had blood on it. Tori's IIRC.

Salem

 

[Hello_Kitty]

I was reading the tweets just now and it said that derstine said that according to Tlm using BA's tools were heat and Had to head to home depot.

Now if I was going to use the word heat like in the sentence that derstine has brought forth it seems to me mtr knew what the plan was and she told him it was heat so go to home depot. Almost as if he suggested whatever tools he had from BA.

Does everyone know what I am getting at or saying? Lol

Hard to type on iPhone

Are you saying that Derstine contradicted himself? Cuz if so, he has done that a few times today.

 

[tmhco]

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com...in-closing-argument-at-stafford-murder-trial/

I know I have been waiting for this!

 

[Heliotrope]

Ummmm..... hair dye????

I'm having a flashback to the 90s - Austin Powers.

"One Swedish-made body part enlarger"
"That's not mine, baby"
"One receipt for said Swedish-made body part enlarger signed by Austin Powers"
"Er..."

If you were born in the 90s or later, never mind.

 

[crazyladi]

Are you saying that Derstine contradicted himself? Cuz if so, he has done that a few times today.

To me it seems that mtr might have told derstine about Tlm saying it was heat to use BA's tools so she suggested to go HD. That is how I feel about what happened. However I think mtr forgot to mention his part in this convo. I think he knew what was going on and he suggested to use BAs tools and she said that would be heat so let's go to home depot. He hands her the money and goes into buy it. To me he intended to kill tori and Tlm said don't use BA's tools because we will get caught.

Make sense now lol. Man I need to get to the computer I hate typing on an iPhone it sucks

 

[Jezbel]

Just got to the end of 33 pages, whoo.

It was frustrating to listen to that today, but I was very pleased to see Justice Heeney warn the jury just prior that a suggestion from the lawyer does not make it so.

If the jury strips away the what-ifs and relies on the new and / or corroborating information that the defence provided, well, they could fit it on the head of a pin. The defence may not be obliged to provide evidence showing innocence, but if they could provide any independent testimony from witnesses that would clearly contradict any of the crown evidence, that'd be good.

For example, "My client was with his girlfriend, Stacey, on the night of the crime." Then calls Stacey to the stand, and she swears under oath, "He was with me on the night of the crime." Ta da! There was none of that.

As to their one witness, I said it before and will say it again, TLM could have just walked in the front door and out again to keep moving and avoid making contact with any of the many parents that I'm sure were standing around. It was not an 'aha' moment for me.

I'm looking forward to tomorrow - does anyone know - can the lawyers use a presentation while they're making arguments? Defence really didn't have anything, but the Crown has a lot of images that could have a big impact. Can they run a Power Point summarizing their evidence concurrently, or is it just an old-school speech? TIA.

I know at one point today the defence was using picture boards if that helps

 

[Heliotrope]

To me it seems that mtr might have told derstine about Tlm saying it was heat to use BA's tools so she suggested to go HD. That is how I feel about what happened. However I think mtr forgot to mention his part in this convo. I think he knew what was going on and he suggested to use BAs tools and she said that would be heat so let's go to home depot. He hands her the money and goes into buy it. To me he intended to kill tori and Tlm said don't use BA's tools because we will get caught.

Make sense now lol. Man I need to get to the computer I hate typing on an iPhone it sucks

I'm lost on this one - did they borrow tools at BA's house, or did he suggest they borrow tools? If so, how could he not have known what was coming?

 

[crazyladi]

Exactly what I asked before. Derstine threw it out there today during closing and I found it odd. There was no mention in BA's testimony or cross but he threw it out there today so if we are to believe this story that is how I think it went down making mtr well aware if not the mastermind. Don't rapist have tool kits? Anyways all I am saying is either derstine is trying to mess with everyone or he has just put his client in a position he said his client was not capable of doing

 

[Alethea Dice]

BBM

This isn't true though, because there is a scrap of fabric from the back seat and it had blood on it. Tori's IIRC.

Salem

The blood on the piece of fabric was too small to be tested.

McLean's testing on the grey material found chemical indications of blood, though none was visible, and while DNA from at least two people, one being male, was present, the minuscule amount of it meant it was unsuitable to be tested further, she said.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/04/11/michael-rafferty-trial-dna-stafford_n_1417867.html

HTH

 

[crazyladi]

The blood on the piece of fabric was too small to be tested.



http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/04/11/michael-rafferty-trial-dna-stafford_n_1417867.html

HTH

Ya it was minimal amounts because as to Tlm they thoroughly cleaned the car except they forgot about this piece

 

[Heliotrope]

Ya it was minimal amounts because as to Tlm they thoroughly cleaned the car except they forgot about this piece

Not surprised he didn't mention that little piece of fabric, that was fabric on top and foam on the bottom (consistent with car seat cushion).

It's one of many, many pieces of physical evidence that closely tie in with TLM's statement.

Interesting how way back in the May 09 interview (one of the early confession videos with Smyth), she talked about the rape happening in the rear passenger side doorway - and lo and behold, that's where the blood was found. I believe that would have been before forensic results on his car would have been available.

 

[Alethea Dice]

Ya it was minimal amounts because as to Tlm they thoroughly cleaned the car except they forgot about this piece

Aside from TLM's testimony, there is no proof that they cleaned the car at all - nothing to back up that statement. And she conveniently couldn't remember where that car wash was. I would think if they had cleaned the car that thoroughly, the scrap of fabric wouldn't have even been there. It would have been tossed out or in the vacuum cleaner.

JMO

 

[snoofer]

Thanks.
This 1 twitter feed was very telling, IMOO. Someone mentioned in previous statements he would bring up "men's rea" as a legal argument.

The crux of Derstine's argument is that direct evidence points to McClintic, but only her testimony points to #Rafferty
7 May, AdrianMorrow

Derstine explains mens rea: you must intend to commit a crime to be guilty. If you do it accidentally, it's not a crime, he says
7 May, AdrianMorrow


Thanks everyone for tweets, links, etc.
Again, I am hours behind on today.

seems he through out every conceivable idea of what could have happened without saying what HIS client said happened. WTH? Wants the jury to pick one?? MOO

 

[snoofer]

Aside from TLM's testimony, there is no proof that they cleaned the car at all - nothing to back up that statement. And she conveniently couldn't remember where that car wash was. I would think if they had cleaned the car that thoroughly, the scrap of fabric wouldn't have even been there. It would have been tossed out or in the vacuum cleaner.

JMO

k......so why IS one scrap left? JMO