TRIAL Week One - Ross Harris 3 October 2016

[Pamela_Brewer]

Yes I was a bit surprised by the officer's demeanor too, considering they were dealing with someone who had just lost their child. We can only hear the audio hear though, there's no video evidence to show what kind of body language was going on, maybe Ross and his body language warranted a harsh tone. Or maybe the officer's body language was the reason why Ross swore at them in the first place. But based on hearing the audio only - IMO the officer instigated the aggressive tone of their interaction.

Edit to add: It also sounded like the officer lost their temper after Ross swore, not very level headed of a trained professional to do this in an emotive situation. It only makes me like the officer less, and not judge Ross for swearing at them.

He showed up in a public parking lot in his personal vehicle with a dead child.
To trained response, he had not "just" lost his child. The child had passed hours ago.
Cuff him and secure him in the cruiser, then ask questions. No one really knew what had happened other than he was riding around with a dead child.
I would think that is standard procedure period. The language they used didn't help matters. That's for sure.

 

[CarolinaMoon]

There is one witness I would like to hear from.. the person on the phone with Ross when LE arrived. It would answer a lot of questions for me.

 

[Inthedetails]

He showed up in a public parking lot in his personal vehicle with a dead child.
To trained response, he had not "just" lost his child. The child had passed hours ago.
Cuff him and secure him in the cruiser, then ask questions. No one really knew what had happened other than he was riding around with a dead child.
I would think that is standard procedure period. The language they used didn't help matters. That's for sure.

I agree.

For Ross, imo, knew for hours that his child was dead. (I think he did forget him in the car but remembered at lunch, so by after-work time, he had had a few hours to absorb the news....he was faking that he just found out.)

For LE, they have no idea what happened when they first arrive at a call. Their responsibility in this scene was with the victim, and if the father interferes with that, he does need to be removed so LE and rescue workers can do their job. LE is not there to comfort a distraught father as first priority when they have a dead child to attend to - and to figure out how this child died. They've seen many horrible scenes, and they are trained to manage a scene so they can figure it out....and that might look harsh in hindsight. JMO

 

[Cinnalauda]

I agree.

For Ross, imo, knew for hours that his child was dead. (I think he did forget him in the car but remembered at lunch, so by after-work time, he had had a few hours to absorb the news....he was faking that he just found out.)

For LE, they have no idea what happened when they first arrive at a call. Their responsibility in this scene was with the victim, and if the father interferes with that, he does need to be removed so LE and rescue workers can do their job. LE is not there to comfort a distraught father as first priority when they have a dead child to attend to - and to figure out how this child died. They've seen many horrible scenes, and they are trained to manage a scene so they can figure it out....and that might look harsh in hindsight. JMO

Yes, I agree the police could see the child has been dead for some time, but in recent terms, he had just lost his child that day. True, the police did not know at that point whether there was foul play and needed to deal with him. But swearing back at him isn't professional or, I'm sure, advised when dealing with an emotive person.

How was the father interfering with them dealing with the victim?

 

[Inthedetails]

Yes, I agree the police could see the child has been dead for some time, but in recent terms, he had just lost his child that day. True, the police did not know at that point whether there was foul play and needed to deal with him. But swearing back at him isn't professional or, I'm sure, advised when dealing with an emotive person.

How was the father interfering with them dealing with the victim?

I agree that LE swearing isn't professional.

The father was yelling at LE. I think that is interference. I would find it hard to do my job if someone was yelling at me and not following direction.

 

[Pamela_Brewer]

"Police said Harris made a phone call after discovering his son was dead, but did not call 911. When an officer told him to get off his phone, Harris yelled “F*ck you! before being handcuffed." Said CNN

http://heavy.com/news/2014/06/justin-ross-harris-murder-left-baby-in-car-dead/

 

[Cinnalauda]

I agree that LE swearing isn't professional.

The father was yelling at LE. I think that is interference. I would find it hard to do my job if someone was yelling at me and not following direction.

Well I'm not sure about it being interference in legal terms, but I get what you're saying. (Genuine question: is yelling / swearing an arrestable offense in the US?)

 

[Inthedetails]

How did he ever get any work done? He comes in late, searches for cruises, sexts teenagers, goes to lunch, sexts and then leaves early. what a screw up.

Exactly. I think he was immature to the max, not willing to grow up and actually do the work on a daily basis of being an employee, husband, father. What he wanted to do is play.

I don't think he intentionally killed Cooper, but I do think he is responsible of neglect which resulted in the death of his child.

By the way, I'm really grateful for everyone posting the court happenings here. THANK YOU.

jmo

 

[popsicle]

Yes, I agree the police could see the child has been dead for some time, but in recent terms, he had just lost his child that day. True, the police did not know at that point whether there was foul play and needed to deal with him. But swearing back at him isn't professional or, I'm sure, advised when dealing with an emotive person.

How was the father interfering with them dealing with the victim?

They are in the field working a dead baby case. The dad, who may or may not have killed this baby, is not emotional but is resistant and cursing... I have no problem with what the Officer said. jmo

 

[Inthedetails]

Well I'm not sure about it being interference in legal terms, but I get what you're saying. (Genuine question: is yelling / swearing an arrestable offense in the US?)

He wasn't arrested for swearing. He was removed from the scene and put in a police car.

 

[Hope4More]

Ignoring the sexting for a minute, there were signs that something was going on in the Harris marriage, starting in May. May marked their 8-year anniversary. According to msm, in January Leanna talked about having another baby. However, by May:

Hi

http://people.com/crime/hot-car-toddler-death-friends-react-to-justin-ross-harris-murder-charges/

Add to that some financial troubles (Ross had charged his credit cards up to a high amount), coupled with his being passed over for promotion at Home Depot. He also applied for a job at Chick-fil-a and didn't get it. Today we learned that he stopped texting pics of Cooper at daycare, though we don't know why.

Now, adding in the sexting, well, it paints a picture of a man unhappy in his marriage. Was he also unhappy about being a dad? Hopefully we'll find some answers during the trial. I guess what I'm saying is that it isn't all that far fetched that Ross would eliminate a child that he imagined was standing in the way of his freedom - you can divorce a wife but a child, not so easy.

There's nothing unusual about being unhappy in a marriage, temporarily, while going through a bad spell, or even long term. Harris apparently didn't try to hide the fact he was having marital problems, or that he was going outside his marriage as a result. Apparently even Leanne knew, to some extent, that Harris was being unfaithful to her. No great big awful double life secret there.

All the more reason for Leanne to be more tuned in to how Harris was with Cooper. By her account, whatever unhappiness Harris might have felt about his marriage did not spill over to how Harris felt about Cooper, or how he treated him. There is no indication at all that Harris neglected or mistreated Cooper, much less abused him in any way. Leanne apparently will testify that Harris loved Cooper more than anything in the world.

So the jury will be asked to believe that Harris, for no discernable reason, and without exhibiting any prior behavior that suggested he had come to see Cooper as a burden, just decided one day to kill his baby, and deliberately chose a manner of murder he knew for a fact would cause Cooper the maximum amount of pain and suffering.

It just doesn't add up.

 

[Cinnalauda]

He wasn't arrested for swearing. He was removed from the scene and put in a police car.

No, sorry I wasn't saying he was arrested for swearing, it was a separate question: whether it is an arrestable offense.

 

[Inthedetails]

There's nothing unusual about being unhappy in a marriage, temporarily, while going through a bad spell, or even long term. Harris apparently didn't try to hide the fact he was having marital problems, or that he was going outside his marriage as a result. Apparently even Leanne knew, to some extent, that Harris was being unfaithful to her. No great big awful double life secret there.

All the more reason for Leanne to be more tuned in to how Harris was with Cooper. By her account, whatever unhappiness Harris might have felt about his marriage did not spill over to how Harris felt about Cooper, or how he treated him. There is no indication at all that Harris neglected or mistreated Cooper, much less abused him in any way. Leanne apparently will testify that Harris loved Cooper more than anything in the world.

So the jury will be asked to believe that Harris, for no discernable reason, and without exhibiting any prior behavior that suggested he had come to see Cooper as a burden, just decided one day to kill his baby, and deliberately chose a manner of murder he knew for a fact would cause Cooper the maximum amount of pain and suffering.

It just doesn't add up.

I do think Ross loved Cooper. I also think he wasn't up to the task of caring for him day-in and day-out, and I think his wife had an idea that Ross didn't always do what he was supposed to do....but it never crossed her mind that Ross would intentionally kill the baby.

I don't think he intentionally killed him either, but he did end up killing him out of his selfishness.

jmo

 

[Inthedetails]

No, sorry I wasn't saying he was arrested for swearing, it was a separate question: whether it is an arrestable offense.

Hindering a police investigation is a crime.

(Edited to add: Just a reminder that Ross was not arrested for hindering a police investigation. He was put into a police car. )

 

[Pamela_Brewer]

I think today ot is for the week. I don't think they are having the trial Thursday or Friday due to "Matthew" & the uncertainty of where landfall will be.

 

[Cinnalauda]

Hindering a police investigation is a crime.

(Edited to add: Just a reminder that Ross was not arrested for hindering a police investigation. He was put into a police car. )

Thanks. I'm not saying he was arrested for that either...it was just a question to determine whether his swearing could have been interpreted as interfering (or hindering) like someone suggested earlier. And whether that is arrestable. I know he wasn't arrested for it.

 

[Hope4More]

I'm wondering if his wife wanted the texts because she knew Ross had a habit of leaving Cooper in the car, or because she simply didn't trust him to be responsible with the task. Maybe he was chronically late for work (which I kind of recall he was?), and having a text at least kept him on a schedule. I'm not thinking the daily texts were cute momentos for a photo album, but were a way of the wife making sure daily routines were followed.

And then he stopped sending texts. He just couldn't keep up with the daily responsibility. That's my opinion of him - not able to keep up with being an adult.

Again, I think he left Cooper in the car "on purpose" - intending to pop into the office to make an appearance that he was there, with the plan to quickly go back to the car and drive him to daycare. This would mean any phone text he sent to his wife would be "late," but he wasn't sending photo texts anymore so he didn't have that reminder to prove himself as doing what was required.....and he forgot.

I think he got distracted with sexting.

And I think he remembered at lunch.

I had the same thought about why he took and sent photos of Cooper arriving at daycare.

I think the timing of his ceasing to do so, 2 weeks before Cooper's death, is probably not inconsequential, but that it has nothing to do with premeditation. That same two weeks before, iirc, is when Leanne left and returned from visiting her family, and when she installed the new car seat in her car.

It's interesting that neither parent transferred the new car seat to Ross's car, but the fact is, it was as much Leanne's responsibility as it was Ross's to make sure either each car had an appropriate car seat for Cooper, or to do the work of transferring the new car seat from car to car as needed.

I think Leanne probably had told Ross she was concerned he might leave Cooper in the car (whatever the basis for that concern), which is why her first thought that day was that he'd done so. And I'd be willing to guess part of what was going on in their marriage for those weeks is that he was chafing at being "told what to do" by her and blew her off, which would explain, IMO, that even at the scene his biggest fear seems to have been how angry Leanne was going to be.

---



I don't believe anymore that Harris took Cooper to work intending to run in and out and then forgot. If that was his intention he would have to have formulated the thought, and IMO, there were too many cues that would have prompted him to remember - including pictures of Cooper on his desk, the text or email about the cruise, mentioning Cooper in his online texting/sexting.

I think he either left Cooper in the car on purpose, or he genuinely forgot he was there, even in that very short amount of time. IMO, he didn't have any intention of harming Cooper.

 

[Inthedetails]

Thanks. I'm not saying he was arrested for that either...it was just a question to determine whether his swearing could have been interpreted as interfering (or hindering) like someone suggested earlier. And whether that is arrestable. I know he wasn't arrested for it.

I used the word interference, but I wasn't using it in a legal term but in a logistical way. LE are the authorities in a crime scene. If you don't follow orders and then say "F.U." to an officer, you are defying their authority. I don't think LE should respond by swearing in return, but I have no problem with LE asserting their authority when responding to the death of a child and the adult in charge of caring for that child is defiant to LE orders to get off the phone.

Whew. Think I'm done with this topic for awhile.

jmo

 

[keeponsearching]

I try hard to separate my emotions from cases. I started really thinking about that morning JH and Cooper went to breakfast. Really hard to think about Cooper after JH closed his door. No child should ever have to suffer. I hope they have witnesses on the stand that will talk about how chatty Cooper was. I haven't had a toddler in years, but I remember they are super nosy and always asking why, and what.

 

[Cinnalauda]

I used the word interference, but I wasn't using it in a legal term but in a logistical way. LE are the authorities in a crime scene. If you don't follow orders and then say "F.U." to an officer, you are defying their authority. I don't think LE should respond by swearing in return, but I have no problem with LE asserting their authority when responding to the death of a child and the adult in charge of caring for that child is defiant to LE orders to get off the phone.

Whew. Think I'm done with this topic for awhile.

jmo

Haha thanks that's all I was wondering. Me too!