Still Missing Turkey - Jamal Khashoggi, 59, Washington Post columnist, Istanbul, 3 Oct 2018

[AtticusFitz]

This OpEd speaks for itself. I concur!


Opinion | Why King Salman Must Replace M.B.S.

 

[kaen]

First I'll admit, I have no idea who Jamal Khashoggi was, nor why he was killed. I don't know much about politics so please don't think I'll be able to get into an intelligent conversation about them.

I am asking why people think the USA should do something? We have so many problems here, on USA soil, that I just don't see how we can take on the world's problems. We can't get our own taken care of.

We sure can't afford to lose thousands of our people in another war.

Other countries probably don't agree with the way we do things here, but can you imagine the outrage if another country came here, and demanded we do things the way their country does?

From my humble perspective, besides this man living and working in this country, there is massive human rights issues associated with his killing. This same leader has jailed women for demanding rights. There are numerous reports that many Yemini people have been bombed and killed purposely by the Saudi's with bombs bought from the US (U.S. Stands By Saudi Arabia, Despite Criticism Over Civilian Casualties In Yemen). The killing of people by any government should be highly scrutinized. In WWII, many countries stepped back and refused to intervene in the actions of the Germans and the result was a systematic genocide that expanded as they marched across Europe.

You are so right that this group has done something similar before. Otherwise, how would the man with the bonesaw and the acid know what to do. Mr. Khashoggi was not their first but certainly sends a message to anyone who see that speaking out against the policies will be dealt with severely.

While I have no interest in being the world's keeper, I don't think it is right to stand back and allow any entity to slaughter one or many of its people just because they have lots of money or oil or whatever. If our leaders don't step in, when does the horror become repugnant enough.

When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn't a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.


Martin Niemöller

 

[petedavo.au]

ABC News on Twitter
EXCLUSIVE: Turkish officials played Sec. of State Pompeo an alleged audio recording of Jamal Khashoggi's murder inside Saudi consulate in Istanbul, senior Turkish official tells @ABC. Pompeo was also given a transcript of the recording, the official says. Pompeo listened to an alleged recording of the murder of Jamal Khashoggi: Source ABC News on Twitter

 

[petedavo.au]

I just can’t get my head around having the ability inside you to do this to this to an innocent human being. How can you put headphones on and get on with doing that?

It just makes you wonder what atrocities go on in that country and others that we are unaware of.

Apparently he was famous for inventing a mobile autopsy van for attending mass deaths which could process people in seven minutes flat. I presume that it could've been quite noisy in there, so it's probably understandable that he'd also come up with ways to ameliorate such inconveniences or annoyances.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

IMO I think the "winners" will be the warmongers.

Who are the warmongers?

 

[petedavo.au]

Jamal Khashoggi: Turkish police search forest and seaside city for remains of missing journalist Police search forest and seaside city for remains of missing Saudi journalist via @abcnews
Extract» "Authorities widened the geographic focus of the search after tracking the routes and stops of cars that left the Saudi consulate and the consul's residence on October 2, the day Khashoggi was last seen, the senior officials said."

Khashoggi's killers may have dumped his remains in Belgrad Forest adjacent to Istanbul, and at a rural location near the city of Yalova, a 90-kilometre drive south of Istanbul, the officials said.

"The investigations led to some suspicion that his remains may be in the city of Yalova and the Belgrad forest, police have been searching these areas," one of the officials said.

A "farm house or villa" may have been used for the disposal of remains, the official said.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Other countries probably don't agree with the way we do things here, but can you imagine the outrage if another country came here, and demanded we do things the way their country does?

rsbm

Respectfully, that’s not the issue at play here.

Universal Declaration of Human Rights

pdf link: https://treaties.un.org/doc/publication/unts/volume 999/volume-999-i-14668-english.pdf

Additionally, murdering innocent people is illegal everywhere.

It’s especially egregious if it is, indeed, a government-sponsored assassination of a prominent, respected journalist who wrote for US and international news organizations.

It would be a chilling attack on America’s first amendment right protecting freedoms of press and speech in addition to violating civil rights and international compacts prohibiting such crimes.

ETA: What’s possibly worse is that the U.S. might have known about this plot and for whoever reason actually failed to intervene, essentially becoming complicit in the plot. The “reminder” that the victim/journalist was not an “American citizen” is telling, imo. He worked many years for US news agencies.

It’s chilling.

 

[Fairy1]

ABC News on Twitter
EXCLUSIVE: Turkish officials played Sec. of State Pompeo an alleged audio recording of Jamal Khashoggi's murder inside Saudi consulate in Istanbul, senior Turkish official tells @ABC. Pompeo was also given a transcript of the recording, the official says. Pompeo listened to an alleged recording of the murder of Jamal Khashoggi: Source ABC News on Twitter

Pompeo is now denying he heard the recording. The writing is on the wall here, so to speak.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

This "cloak-and-dagger" behavior is bewildering, imo. Their wording/phrasing is intriguing.

bbm

Mike Pompeo on Khashoggi disappearance: 'I don't want to talk about any of the facts'

Before Pompeo left Riyadh on Wednesday after the meeting, a reporter asked him if the Saudis had indicated whether Khashoggi was "alive or dead."

"I don't want to talk about any of the facts," Pompeo responded, and the Saudis "didn't want to either." Instead, the Saudis just want "the opportunity to complete this investigation" into Khashoggi's disappearance, Pompeo said, adding that it is "reasonable" to let them do so.
​

Pompeo listened to an alleged recording of the murder of Jamal Khashoggi: Source

Yesterday, on his way back from Istanbul, Pompeo was asked if he had heard the audio.

"I don’t have anything to say about that," he said.

President Trump has been publicly asking to hear the recording. Pompeo met with the president at the White House on Thursday morning to brief him on his visit to Turkey and Saudi Arabia, where he met with Saudi King Salman and Crown Prince Mohamed bin Salman.

It is unknown whether Pompeo shared the transcript with the president, but soon after the meeting the president changed his tune.

While earlier in the week the president questioned whether the audio recording existed and cautioned against blaming Saudi Arabia for Khashoggi’s disappearance, on Thursday afternoon his administration abruptly canceled a visit to Saudi Arabia by Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin to attend a large investment conference hosted by the Crown Prince, whom Turkish officials have reportedly claimed was behind Khashoggi's killing.

Later in the day, Trump told reporters that "it certainly looks like" Khashoggi was dead.​

 

[Fairy1]

I think we ALL should hear the audio. Maybe that'll wake up those who don't want to care.

 

[kaen]

The slippery slope of condoning the behavior of bad actors has always bitten world leaders in the butt. Just because a country or regime has something another country wants should not (in my opinion) absolve any crimes or sins. I felt that way about Myanmar, China and so on. To see the leadership of our country possibly make this deal is more than concerning because they are ultimately making a deal with the devil. When will we hold the Saudis accountable--- what will be the line in the sand?

 

[gregjrichards]

I think we ALL should hear the audio. Maybe that'll wake up those who don't want to care.

I care but personally I don’t think I could listen to the audio it would be absolutely harrowing.

 

[kaen]

I think we ALL should hear the audio. Maybe that'll wake up those who don't want to care.

I don't know if I could listen to it but I agree that making it public would create transparency and allow for a fuller dialogue. Sunlight is the ultimate disinfectant as they say.

I feel for Khashoggi's children: to know the terror and pain of your father, to know that your father was cut apart alive with a medication that likely kept him alert but unable to scream, to know that these animals enjoyed killing him, to know that they dissolved his body and scattered him to the wind. How could anyone even want to give this leadership any room to defend themselves?

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

I'm really having a hard time wrapping my head around statements like this.

Especially if there's the realistic possibility those arms could be/are being used to empower fascist, non-democratic, totalitarian regimes who kill employees of American businesses while, at the same time, silencing criticism of the government.

Pat Robertson: Don't risk arms deal over one man's killing

 

[kaen]

I'm really having a hard time wrapping my head around statements like this.

Especially if there's the realistic possibility those arms could be/are being used to empower fascist, non-democratic, totalitarian regimes who kill employees of American businesses while, at the same time, silencing criticism of the government.

Pat Robertson: Don't risk arms deal over one man's killing

He had said this about the Orlando nightclub massacre:

Robertson said that liberals are facing a “dilemma” because they love both LGBT equality and Islamic extremism, and that it is better for conservatives like himself not to get involved but to instead just watch the two groups kill each other.

“The left is having a dilemma of major proportions and I think for those of us who disagree with some of their policies, the best thing to do is to sit on the sidelines and let them kill themselves,” he said.

 

[Fairy1]

I care but personally I don’t think I could listen to the audio it would be absolutely harrowing.

I agree and me neither. But it would certainly help to turn the abstract into reality for those who are able to pretend it didn't happen at all or that it meant nothing.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

I'm speechless, @kaen. OMG

 

[Fairy1]

Trump praises Gianforte, recounting his assault on reporter

At a Thursday rally in Missoula, Montana, the president praised Republican congressman Greg Gianforte and recounted his assault on Guardian reporter Ben Jacobs.

“Greg is smart, and by the way, never wrestle him,” Trump joked after Gianforte made brief remarks at the microphone.

“You understand that? Never. Any guy that can do a body slam, he’s my kind of…” Trump continued, mimicking the wrestling move as his crowd cheered him on. “He’s my guy.”

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

From Politifact: Trump's claim of no Saudi financial ties is misleading

"Saudi Arabia, I like the Saudis," Trump said at a July 2015 rally. "I make a lot of money with them. They buy all sorts of my stuff. All kinds of toys from Trump. They pay me millions and hundred of millions."

We decided to take a closer look at transactions between Trump and Saudi business partners.

We found no evidence that Trump or the Trump Organization owns property or invests in Saudi Arabia. However, Trump has profited from business dealings with Saudis dating back at least to the 1990s, and his hotels continue to generate revenue from Saudi interests.​

 

[Fairy1]

Jamal Khashoggi: Turkish police search forest and seaside city for remains of missing journalist Police search forest and seaside city for remains of missing Saudi journalist via @abcnews
Extract» "Authorities widened the geographic focus of the search after tracking the routes and stops of cars that left the Saudi consulate and the consul's residence on October 2, the day Khashoggi was last seen, the senior officials said."

Khashoggi's killers may have dumped his remains in Belgrad Forest adjacent to Istanbul, and at a rural location near the city of Yalova, a 90-kilometre drive south of Istanbul, the officials said.

"The investigations led to some suspicion that his remains may be in the city of Yalova and the Belgrad forest, police have been searching these areas," one of the officials said.

A "farm house or villa" may have been used for the disposal of remains, the official said.

I don't believe they'll ever find his remains. You don't chop up a human into little pieces so that he'll be found, IMO. They will have done everything in their power to obliterate him from the face of the earth. What were they so afraid of? Hmmmm.