GUILTY Turkey - Sarai Sierra, 33, NY woman murdered, Istanbul, 21 Jan 2013 - #1

[ToutCa]

My comment was not directed at morality. Why do you oppose Scott?

It's not relevant to the case, just me being cranky -- I'll msg about it in private.

My point with the Scott quote was the US/Euro tourists, esp. female, do not realize how (usually bad) they look in the eyes of the local people.

You're right, but I would cut the "esp. female" and just say that most tourists of any origin usually look strange to locals -- and are unaware or choose to be unaware of local perceptions. Financial and power gaps between tourists and locals accentuate the danger of encounters; so too does cluelessness to local culture...

No idea yet how relevant any of that may be here.

 

[ToutCa]

Several Turkish news sources state cause of death, translated as GUNSHOT, but "BLOW TO HEAD" according to other translations.

That's crazy and sounds like organized crime to me if GUNSHOT is true. (As other users downthread point out, BLOW TO HEAD is far more likely).

Police sources and the Prime Minister of Turkey also relate vague talk of courier stuff and say more detentions are to come soon:

Istanbul Police Chief Hussein Capkin said, an American tourist was killed by shot in Saria per Sierra definite, continuing investigations into the incident.

Prime Minister Erdogan came to say goodbye to Prague journalists at Atatürk Airport with the discovery of the body of an American woman tourist Saria Sierra Hussein Capkin answering the questions, "Work in progress. Forensic medical report are not out yet. Was killed by getting shot and killed per for sure. the other side of the work. sure to find the information you need to work a little more, "he said. Capkin, Saria'nın as tourists wandered in Istanbul, in the direction of the courier said it was not any detections.

http://www.haberturk.com/gundem/haber/816902-flas-sarainin-olum-nedeni-belli-oldu

http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/gundem/22510583.asp

BETTER TRANSLATION OF POLICE CHIEF'S COMMENTS:

Questions about the murder of an American Sarai Sierra Chief Capkin, "No work in progress. Forensic medical report came out, but was killed by getting shot as per the final. The other side of the work. Exact information you need to work a bit in order to achieve," he replied.

Journalists, "What information about the people who were arrested more than 10 people" on the question of Chief Capkin, "to say something about them in advance so right now be seen in the work," he said.

Members of the press, an American photographer, "What is the purpose presence in Istanbul?" Hussein Capkin on the question, "As a tourist traveling alone." he said.

Sarai Sierra "or courier agent that" questions with regard to the "I do not have a determination," Chief Capkin replied.

http://www.radikal.com.tr/Radikal.aspx?aType=RadikalDetayV3&ArticleID=1119749&CategoryID=77

 

[ami]

It's a good point, and well taken. We all take risks every day. How much risk is acceptable to us is a personal decision.

I am reminded of when the space program chose a teacher to go into space. My mother, also a teacher, said that she would never do that, no matter how much she wanted to, because she had us at home. And we all know what happened to that teacher. To her the risk was worth it.

So, my risk taking days are pretty much over, at least until my kid is done college.

At the same time, if I died on a risky trip or taking part in a risky activity, YES, I would bear some respsibility. Of course, in this case where a woman was murdered, a murderer is to blame. I just wish she had been a little more careful, for her kids.

(Thanks to Snoopster for articulating the balance between risk and living life so much better than I've managed to do in this thread! lol)

Yep - most of us probably drive, which is one of the most dangerous activities you can engage in. Will we give up driving to be safer? If you live in some parts of the US we have a higher crime rate than Turkey - how does anyone justify raising their kids here? If we got randomly shot, would we expect people to point to a country with a lower crime rate and say, "Well if she valued her kids, she would have moved to Japan and walked everywhere..."

I don't see Istanbul as a "risky trip" whatsoever. Because I've traveled and even lived in so many places with so much more crime (including places in the USA with a lot more crime than Turkey).

I don't know. I'm a woman with kids, I travel alone periodically and have my entire adult life. I've met so many women who have done the same, safely despite the risks, and who have brought their experiences back to enrich their world and others'. Teachers and doctors and artists, etc. - heck, I even lucked into staying at Jane Goodall's once and if there was ever a naive solo female traveler, she was it. And thank God she was. I think what people fail to see - because it doesn't make the news - is that for every one newsworthy death there are tens of thousands of women traveling alone safely and happily.

I do think she took some risks that would have given me pause, but then I wasn't there and don't really know how she arrived at some of those choices. There are entire forums dedicated to people giving each other travel advice. Thorn Tree on Lonely Planet comes to mind - and I've met up with folks from other countries to - for instance - join in on camping safaris that are less expensive if you get a group of 10 or so. I shared a tent with a grandma from Germany. Maybe my safety was luck of the draw, while Sarai's was the unfortunate flip side. I don't know. I think I just relate too much to her and it makes me really defensive on her behalf.

 

[ami]

I wonder if her tour guide in Amsterdam and Turkish dude know each other from the same online community she met them both... (Forgive me if this has been covered already)

Actually yes I think the A'dam tour guide did mention something about the "guy she was meeting up with in Turkey" being shady somehow. He also expressed uneasiness about the man whose apartment she was renting.

This is why I think there's something to this: A'dam tour guide would have no way of knowing ANYthing about the Landlord except by Sarai telling him. Landlord was not (as far as we've ever heard) part of IG. He was just someone she booked a room with. So if A'dam tour guide thought that Landlord was creepy, it was because of something Sarai told him while she was in Amsterdam. And that was A'dam tour guide's FIRST response on IG upon hearing she was missing - that someone she was meeting up with in Istanbul was sketchy and that the Landlord was also giving him bad vibes. Now the sketchy meetup he could have known about from IG chats, but the Landlord was definitely from info Sarai shared with him.

 

[tardislass]

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/po...eport.aspx?pageID=517&nID=40383&NewsCatID=341

Latest from the English- Turkish newspaper is that she died of a head wound(gun shot). No evidence of drug couriers, or signs of sexual assault. In fAct she was fully clothed and all her jewelry was intact. It's possible the witness is wrong or she made it up it.

The last sightening of her was in Sirecki at 1.15pm which makes it all the more strange that no one saw her since Sirecki is home to many shops, restaurants and tourists. It's possible that a rogue cab driver did something- if heard some harrowing stories. But I'm still thinking maybe she was photographing the walls and came upon something she shouldn't have..drugs,etc. I still am suspicious of Taylan and his text-saying he'll be there and does she has wifi. It sounds to meet like they were going to meet at her place. Otherwise, why ask about wifi on a bridge?

Very odd and sad. I can believe she was robbed but the lack of any other trauma and that she wasn't found until yesterday, only make sense if it was a criminal gang.

 

[ToutCa]

Turk press: Time of death said to be approx. ONE WEEK AGO:

Is estimated that about a week before the murder was committed to the examination.

LINK

That's vague, but could fit the timeline of her being placed there Tues. evening.

If true, it appears to cast doubt on the theory she stumbled on something on the 21st and was killed on the spot -- police have also already stated she appears to have been killed elsewhere and transported.

It's sad and very strange -- none of our theories easily account for the current apparent facts.

 

[ToutCa]

1st Published source claiming missing phone/iPad found with body:

Shackle AND CHAIN ​​HAS BEEN TAKEN: about 2 meters away from the body in a blanket, blanket Sarai'nin While fetching the location of the body is expected to use. On the blue pants, sweaters and coats and wrist gold chain, gold earrings in the ear of the woman taken, he noted. The left side of the Sierras, where pension ipad, camera and cell phone were found.

BBM

LINK

Why are they claiming a camera was found? I thought she had no camera.

And if true, and body was placed there TUES, how was phone activated (supposedly) 30th and 31st? Was phone placed more recently?

 

[Wanderlust]

If the story that Sarai's body was dumped in the place where it was found is true, I wonder why her killer (/s) chose such a central area. Istanbul is a very large city. Why not dump the body somewhere on the outskirts of the city? Why dump it next to one of the busiest roads (Kennedy Avenue) in Istanbul? It would seem to me like her killer(/s) was taking a big risk of being caught. Did he want the body to be found quickly? Or did he just want to make it look like Sarai had been killed at the spot?

 

[necco]

This keeps getting weirder and weirder. What on earth happened? This no longer sounds like anything we've come up with. This sounds like an outright execution. I'm beginning to think even our wildest suggestion is inadequately odd to cover what happened to poor Sarai. Could she have stumbled across some criminal enterprise?

 

[michellemarls]

I'm shocked that Sarai was shot. This seems to place a whole new twist motive for me. Yes, i could see being stabbed fitting a robbery gone wrong...but shot?

IMO there seems to be something more complex going on here than what we have discussed so far.

Is it coincidence that Sarai brought here flight dates to return home forward?
Why did she seem to be walking with her head towards the floor in the CCTV footage? (Although that could be misinterpretation)
Why is that right on the very day Sarai was to leave for home that she was murdered?

Something bigger is going on here in my opinion...

 

[ToutCa]

This keeps getting weirder and weirder. What on earth happened? This no longer sounds like anything we've come up with. This sounds like an outright execution. I'm beginning to think even our wildest suggestion is inadequately odd to cover what happened to poor Sarai. Could she have stumbled across some criminal enterprise?

I agree, necco, I'm completely baffled right now.

Why was she (apparently) abducted and killed in parts unknown? What was the motive? At the moment (but this could change as information comes out) robbery and sexual assault seem out.

Was Taylan/TK involved in any way?

Is there an Amsterdam connection?

Is it a crime of passion or retribution of some kind by an organized gang?

 

[necco]

I wonder if she could have photographed something she should not have. I know I've done it inadvertently and ended up having a very long conversation with a member of the armed forces here in the US.

 

[michellemarls]

US citizen Sierra dies of head trauma

Istanbul- Huseyin Capkin, head of Istanbul Security Department, said that US citizen Sarai Sierra died of a head trauma.

Capkin told reporters on Sunday that the report of Forensics Department was not ready yet, but it was certain that Sierra was killed by a blow in the head.

Capkin denied the claims that Sierra was an agent or a courier.

http://en.cumhuriyet.com/?hn=396624

So many conflicting reports. This is a recent report...i think we will have wait for the confirmation of cause of death

 

[tardislass]

US citizen Sierra dies of head trauma



http://en.cumhuriyet.com/?hn=396624

So many conflicting reports. This is a recent report...i think we will have wait for the confirmation of cause of death

Thats what other English sources have said as well.

 

[michellemarls]

Sarai Sierra, NYC woman missing in Turkey, killed by blow to head police say

[quoteTurkish police say a New York City woman who went missing and was later found dead in Istanbul had suffered a fatal blow to the head.

Istanbul police chief Huseyin Capkin said Sunday that forensic experts had not concluded their autopsy report on the victim, Sarai Sierra, but that it was "clear" the head injury caused her death.
][/quote]

http://newyork.newsday.com/news/new...y-killed-by-blow-to-head-police-say-1.4552049

 

[ToutCa]

Good catch, guys, I'm giving up on Google Translate, as it keeps leading me astray.

If it was a "blow to the head", where does that lead us?

Back to Taylan/TK? Where?

 

[vesa]

Sarai Sierra's body found near graffiti; husband says she was drawn to it

http://www.examiner.com/article/sarai-sierra-s-body-found-near-graffiti-husband-says-she-was-drawn-to-it?cid=rss

http://www.haberte.com/polis-adliye/kayip-amerikali-sarainin-cesedi-bulundu-h97930.html

 

[Dion]

US citizen Sierra dies of head trauma

Istanbul- Huseyin Capkin, head of Istanbul Security Department, said that US citizen Sarai Sierra died of a head trauma.

Capkin told reporters on Sunday that the report of Forensics Department was not ready yet, but it was certain that Sierra was killed by a blow in the head.

Capkin denied the claims that Sierra was an agent or a courier.

http://en.cumhuriyet.com/?hn=396624

So many conflicting reports. This is a recent report...i think we will have wait for the confirmation of cause of death

I'm glad the head of security is on record as saying that Sarai was not "an agent or a courier".

There has been so much bad reporting, and coupled with the language barrier, it has been almost impossible at times to figure out what is going on.

 

[jcamille]

My thoughts after reading all of the posts:

1) 'Receipts' for $10-$15,000 - The way I am reading this is that she withdrew $10,000 to $15,000 from her bank account while on her trip and that the 'receipts' are ATM receipts. Hence, they think she spent a large amount of money during her trip because she withdrew the money from her bank.

2) Spending $10-15K on this trip - I've traveled to Europe three times, each time with very nice accommodations, shopping, excursions, meals, etc. and didn't spend that much.

3) Walking with her head down. I don't think she was trying to shield her face from the security camera. I walk with my head down when I am deep in thought without even realizing it.

4) My theory - I think she was taken on 1/21 by someone who found out she was leaving earlier than expected and didn't want her to leave. Once he restrained her from leaving, he couldn't just let her go. She has been missing since 1/21, but the story didn't break in the media until about 1/25 (a week ago). When the story broke and it became big news, the person who had her, had to get rid of her and killed her. I find it interesting that her body was found dumped, a day after the prime suspect was released from police custody.

I don't think she was a drug mule. There's just no evidence to support that possibility other than the money.

 

[ami]

1st Published source claiming missing phone/iPad found with body:



BBM

LINK

Why are they claiming a camera was found? I thought she had no camera.

And if true, and body was placed there TUES, how was phone activated (supposedly) 30th and 31st? Was phone placed more recently?

She used her phone as her camera (at least on IG) and that would be her American Samsung Galaxy phone, according to her IG posts. She had that with her for taking photos, and I'm guessing that was what was found with her and what was said to be "activated" via skype in the last few days.

So far they've told us she had a stab wound, was dropped from a high place and had head trauma... I'm guessing some of this is a translation issue and some is probably speculation. But most agree that she still had her things with her - so not robbery? And at least at this point they're saying it was not sexual assault. So if it wasn't sexual assault or robbery, what other motive is there?

And I wonder if they are still going with the witness account of seeing a man drop her body there at night?