GUILTY Turkey - Sarai Sierra, 33, NY woman murdered, Istanbul, 21 Jan 2013 - #1

[ToutCa]

For one the tram does not cover the same route. The train tracks of from the train, the tram is different. The tram actually take a sharp turn away from where she would have been walking, so the tram would not have been an option to get to that spot.

Also I was trying to establish a time line more to figure out when she would have become a missing person, not to accuse her of cutting it close.

I've ridden the tram, I know the tram.

If she was in a mad rush, she could have taken the tram to Sirkeci (and walked from there). She didn't.

From the times she was spotted on video, she is taking a leisurely stroll across town, totally normal for a tourist.

As for what exact time she disappeared...all indications point to very shortly after 1:15pm when she appeared on video at Sirkeci. Her family started efforts to find her when she did not get off her flight home the next day, Jan. 22 4:50pm at Newark.

 

[ThinkHard]

I now doubt she ever left the Sirkeci/Sarayburnu area. She walked almost in a straight line miles across town and is last seen on video a few hundred meters (continuing in a straight-ish line) from where her body is found.

She's never seen on any footage after that.

MOO... something happened right there -- at the hands of Taylan or an unknown party or parties.

Oh btw quick question, where did you see where the last time they saw her on surveillance was? I was under the impression she was last spotted at 1:15 by the train station ( far more then a few hundred feet from where her body was found). Was there a spotting of her after that?

She would have taken the road that runs the outside of the golden horn to get there. On the other side of the wall from her location is topkapi and gulhane park.

 

[ThinkHard]

I've ridden the tram, I know the tram.

If she was in a mad rush, she could have taken the tram to Sirkeci (and walked from there). She didn't.

From the times she was spotted on video, she is taking a leisurely stroll across town, totally normal for a tourist.

As for what exact time she disappeared...all indications point to very shortly after 1:15pm when she appeared on video at Sirkeci. Her family started efforts to find her when she did not get off her flight home the next day, Jan. 22 4:50pm at Newark.


Thus, this does

Right but the Sirkeci stop on the tram is where it takes a sharp turn toward sultanahmet. She could have take the tram to that stop, but from there it still would have been a half hr walk to where her body was located.

 

[ToutCa]

She wouldn't neccasarily need hrs and hrs. It's only about a 15-20 boat ride to the Asian side depending on what district your trying to get to.

I believe evidence would have surfaced by now if she made such a trip.

I do not believe she would have initiated such a trip after 1:15pm if she needed to be at the airport by mid-afternoon (as you suggested earlier).

BUT I DO BELIEVE you may very well be right she was intending to go by boat to the Asian side. And that she may never have intended to go to the city walls, but that either Taylan lured her there, or someone unknown lured her there on her way to the boats. That's a strong possibility, and another brilliant insight.

 

[ToutCa]

Right but the Sirkeci stop on the tram is where it takes a sharp turn toward sultanahmet. She could have take the tram to that stop, but from there it still would have been a half hr walk to where her body was located.

Agreed.

But she did NOT take the tram. So she wasn't in a hurry as of 10am, 11am, noon, 1pm that day...

 

[lavy]

I think that's why there is so much confusion on the topic. Another example of strange and sometimes inaccurate reporting by the media. :banghead:

I don't want to keep mentioning this, I promise this is the last time I am saying this but the media is extremely annoying. The new article in cnnturk has a sentence saying

"Her family said, Sierra was visiting Istanbul after Denmark." Seriously WTH?
Hurriyet has the same sentence. :furious:

For one the tram does not cover the same route. The train tracks of from the train, the tram is different. The tram actually take a sharp turn away from where she would have been walking, so the tram would not have been an option to get to that spot.

Also I was trying to establish a time line more to figure out when she would have become a missing person, not to accuse her of cutting it close.

I think the point here was she already walked long way that day from her room to Sirkeci and she could have used the tram for a part of the journey to travel faster. We still don't know if she was aiming to reach that spot when she left.

Also if her aim was ONLY to see the bridge and then go to asia she wouldn't have walked to Sirkeci. There are 2 main pier's on both sides of bridge. They are very visible she wouldn't have missed them. The ferries are more often from there.

 

[CMac2]

Something else interesting- possible coincidence, but quite frankly I've had enough of those- is that the number of people LE still have in custody pretty closely matches the number of people from Turkey that SS was known to have communicated with during her trip.

There for 4 people total- Taylan and 3 others. Taylan's not in custody at the moment, but Turkish police say 3 other people are.

Did these four people know each other outside of their friendship/acquaintance with SS?

 

[CMac2]

I don't want to keep mentioning this, I promise this is the last time I am saying this but the media is extremely annoying. The new article in cnnturk has a sentence saying

"Her family said, Sierra was visiting Istanbul after Denmark." Seriously WTH?
Hurriyet has the same sentence. :furious:
QUOTE]

Denmark?! LOL. I'm sorry- I had to laugh. All I can hope is that they got Denmark and the Netherlands confused, and we are NOT about to learn of yet another trip 1600 mi away from Istanbul to have to chew on. :floorlaugh:

 

[ToutCa]

Oh btw quick question, where did you see where the last time they saw her on surveillance was? I was under the impression she was last spotted at 1:15 by the train station ( far more then a few hundred feet from where her body was found). Was there a spotting of her after that?

She would have taken the road that runs the outside of the golden horn to get there. On the other side of the wall from her location is topkapi and gulhane park.

As far as I know, you are 100% correct.

Some of the sleazier Turkish press mentioned at one point very briefly she was filmed at 2pm (1400 hr) at Galata Bridge, but that was dropped, never specified, never confirmed, and never stated by any respectable source. You can poke around and see if you find anything about that -- I assumed it was one of the many FALSE stories bandied about.

 

[looking4answers]

Something else interesting- possible coincidence, but quite frankly I've had enough of those- is that the number of people LE still have in custody pretty closely matches the number of people from Turkey that SS was known to have communicated with during her trip.

There for 4 people total- Taylan and 3 others. Taylan's not in custody at the moment, but Turkish police say 3 other people are.

Did these four people know each other outside of their friendship/acquaintance with SS?

I don't think this means anything, I think this is a coincidence. True the police is not telling us everything they know. Yet if we are led to believe that Taylan was the LAST person she contacted to meet with and did not contact any others in that time period to meet nor leave even a message for any others that she was to be in that area, then I doubt that they would have been able to find and meet her there. Unless you are suggesting they all 4 were friends. I get the impression, she likes to get to know random IGers, and they are not all friends. Just people she felt had quality pictures. So I don't think they necessarily if at all knew each other.


I still think a car could have grabbed her around there, which would explain not seeing her on a camera after, but also the lady witnessing a car coming back to the area with an older man dragging a body out just last tuesday. I have my doubts about this theory and tend to agree something happened that day in that area to her, but "what if". Also, wasn't it mentioned previously that Taylan lived near here? Does he have a car?

 

[CMac2]

I don't think this means anything, I think this is a coincidence. True the police is not telling us everything they know. Yet if we are led to believe that Taylan was the LAST person she contacted to meet with and did not contact any others in that time period to meet nor leave even a message for any others that she was to be in that area, then I doubt that they would have been able to find and meet her there. Unless you are suggesting they all 4 were friends. I get the impression, she likes to get to know random IGers, and they are not all friend. Just people she felt had quality pictures. So I don't think they necessarily if at all knew each other.


I still think a car could have grabbed her around there, which would explain not seeing her on a camera after, but also the lady witnessing a car coming back to the area with an older man dragging a body out just last tuesday. I have my doubts about this theory and tend to agree something happened that day in that area to her, but "what if". Also, wasn't it mentioned previously that Taylan lived near here? Does he have a car?

I was wondering if all 4 knew each other. I don't know, some sort of photography club or something. She joined at least one of those in NY, and had met people from that club in the past, according to one of the US articles (maybe USA Today?? Can't recall for sure now).

I remember reading that Taylan lived in the area too, which is another one of those coincidence-type things that I just cannot believe is a coincidence. I've pretty much discounted altogether the woman's statement that she saw the men carrying the body last week. LE has said that she could not possibly have seen what she claims to have seen- men dragging a body out of an older model white car- because according to them, the area isn't accessible by car.

 

[Amster]

This was answered upthread. According to MSM, it is not believed she used a camera in the traditional sense. Rather, she took pics using her phone and uploaded them to IG.

Thanks for the answer. Does that seem odd to anyone but me??

 

[lavy]

She might not have ever made it to the Asian side, but the ferry boats are on that direct path too. Perhaps it was never be intention to go to that wall, perhaps it was her intention to get on a ferry and explore the Asian side. After all she did tell her family seeing the Asian side was part of her plan that day. She never said anything about exploring the walls.

I have to disagree with this idea. First of all sirkeci only has car ferry. She probably wouldn't go there.

Even if she did, it is very close to the bridge.

But again if her aim is to go to asian side she would take a boat/ferry from Eminonu just after the bridge.

There for 4 people total- Taylan and 3 others. Taylan's not in custody at the moment, but Turkish police say 3 other people are.

I am afraid we don't have any information about them. Even Taylan could be one of these three.

Denmark?! LOL. I'm sorry- I had to laugh. All I can hope is that they got Denmark and the Netherlands confused, and we are NOT about to learn of yet another trip 1600 mi away from Istanbul to have to chew on. :floorlaugh:

I am sure they confused it with Netherlands, they also missed the fact she was in istanbul before that trip but its just so...(I can't even find a word to say)

Oh btw quick question, where did you see where the last time they saw her on surveillance was? I was under the impression she was last spotted at 1:15 by the train station ( far more then a few hundred feet from where her body was found). Was there a spotting of her after that?

Its been said that she was seen in Sirkeci at 1:15, no mention of exact location though.

 

[looking4answers]

http://video.today.msnbc.msn.com/today/50692340/#50692340

 

[CMac2]

Thanks for the answer. Does that seem odd to anyone but me??

If she was a professional photographer, it would seem odd to me. But considering she was an amateur photographer, and really seemed to prefer sharing her pics online, it doesn't seem bizarre. Today's cell phones have excellent cameras on them- it isn't like it was even just a few years ago. Mine has an 8 MP camera with zoom, flash, etc, and is far from top-of-the-line. Plus, the cell phone provides the added ease of uploading the pics to IG (as well as FB, Twitter, e-mail, etc), which is really what she did almost constantly.

 

[looking4answers]

I was wondering if all 4 knew each other. I don't know, some sort of photography club or something. She joined at least one of those in NY, and had met people from that club in the past, according to one of the US articles (maybe USA Today?? Can't recall for sure now).

I remember reading that Taylan lived in the area too, which is another one of those coincidence-type things that I just cannot believe is a coincidence. I've pretty much discounted altogether the woman's statement that she saw the men carrying the body last week. LE has said that she could not possibly have seen what she claims to have seen- men dragging a body out of an older model white car- because according to them, the area isn't accessible by car.

Hmm that does not make sense. How can they say that? There is a major road just below the area she was found. Unless the woman witness was on the OTHER side of the area, and is saying she saw a car from there, which would be impossible as the road is on the other side, and YES a car cannot get up that small hilly area to the other side to be seen. I guess I do not have details about where the witness claims to have been in relation to the road, wall and hole.

 

[CMac2]

I have to go to a meeting right now. Y'all get this thing solved while I'm gone, would ya?

 

[ThinkHard]

Agreed.

But she did NOT take the tram. So she wasn't in a hurry as of 10am, 11am, noon, 1pm that day...

Well taking the tram from the Galata bridge wouldn't really have made a whole lot of sense anyway. It wouldn't really have saved her much time. There is a tram stop on the beyoglu side of the Galata bridge and the eminonu stop on the other side right in front of the spice market. Presumably she was walking across the bridge. Once she had crossed the bridge the eminonu stop and serkeci stop are in practically spitting different of each other. So the tram would have made no sense, no matter what her time line was. She would have only need the tram if she was planning to go to sultanahmet or back to kabatash to take the funakular to Taksim.

 

[bourne]

I now doubt she ever left the Sirkeci/Sarayburnu area. She walked almost in a straight line miles across town and is last seen on video a few hundred meters (continuing in a straight-ish line) from where her body is found.

She's never seen on any footage after that.

MOO... something happened right there -- at the hands of Taylan or an unknown party or parties.

I agree. I don't think she ever left the ruins.

I keep thinking it has to be Taylan. He lives near where she was found. He was the one who told her to meet him there, correct?

It's too much of a coincidence that Taylan's the last one to communicate with her and she was meeting him at the ruins where she was found. And why didn't he look for her or try to contact her after he didn't see her at the ruins? That is highly suspicious -- unless the cops have evidence that he had tried to contact her after she didn't show up via his phone messages?

I think she would only meet up the last day before she was due to fly home with someone she trusted and wanted to personally say goodbye to, and that would be Taylan. He was the only one who met with her several times prior to her going missing so he's the only one she appeared to have developed some feelings/trust for.

My theory is that Taylan and/or the group of people she met online via Instagram did her harm. They persuaded her to visit Turkey with the intention of wanting something from her -- but what? sex? money? her photographs? -- and then he and/or the gang lured her to the site where she was found.

Don't know how many times she was struck -- will have to wait for the ME report on that -- but I'm guessing one person struck and killed her while others watched and stole her Ipad, phone and jacket.

On the other hand, if her underwear was found lowered to her knees, then I don't think it's Taylan because if he had tried to rape her, why would he not pull her pants back on in order to hide the attempt at sexual assault? His being a man, he would know that a rape attempt would automatically point to him -- as he was the last man to communicate with her. So IDK

 

[ThinkHard]

I don't want to keep mentioning this, I promise this is the last time I am saying this but the media is extremely annoying. The new article in cnnturk has a sentence saying

"Her family said, Sierra was visiting Istanbul after Denmark." Seriously WTH?
Hurriyet has the same sentence. :furious:



I think the point here was she already walked long way that day from her room to Sirkeci and she could have used the tram for a part of the journey to travel faster. We still don't know if she was aiming to reach that spot when she left.

Also if her aim was ONLY to see the bridge and then go to asia she wouldn't have walked to Sirkeci. There are 2 main pier's on both sides of bridge. They are very visible she wouldn't have missed them. The ferries are more often from there.

The serkeci tram stop is right across from boat docks for ferries.

And to your point if she wasnt planning to go to the Asian side, what made her change her plans?