GUILTY Turkey - Sarai Sierra, 33, NY woman murdered, Istanbul, 21 Jan 2013 - #2

[CMac2]

I thought her sons went to public school. That the family was keeping them out of school? I thought their neighbor said her saw her taking the sons to school.

If this is true (homeschool) it would explain how the rest of the family is able to keep the kids from hearing about this at school.

 

[ThinkHard]

I have latino relatives. You're correct, they tend to be possessive and get jealous easily. So I don't know why Sarai's husband would have permitted her wife of two young sons to wander off on a solo trip overseas for 3 weeks except for the fact that her female friend had said she was supposed to accompany Sarai on the fantasy trip.

According to early versions of the story, the friend had "at the last minute" backed out due to financial constraints. But recent news articles quote the female friend as saying that she had backed out several MONTHS ago.

Which version is correct? Last minute backing out or months ago?

If it's months ago, it would likely be before payment was made on finalizing the airline ticket for Sarai. So Sarai could have also backed out then and I would think her latino hubby would want her to do so for her own safety. If the friend canceled last minute, well, the money was already paid, and since Sarai's family aren't wealthy, her hubby would probably not have minded as much her decision to visit foreign country solo.

What if both versions her friend has told each have a little truth. Perhaps her and sarai had talked about it. Sarai spoke about it with her husband, he agreed and said as long as her friend was going.

She talks to her friend again they start to look at tickets, her friend is like I can't go this is too much money. Sarai is bummed but still wants to go. She continues her plans and tells her husband the friend is going. The friend plays along. They decide they will make it sound like she only can't go last minute. Sarai's husband can't change is mind at that point because its throwing away a lot of money....

Ooooh here's a conspiracy for you...husband finds out wife lied and starts stalking her gmail account, finds out wife might be flirting around with guys in Istanbul husband is pissed. Husband hires hit man to kill wife in foreign country....do u think u can find a foreign hit man on line? (I'm not really serious about this theory just FYI)

 

[belimom]

I just glanced though and didn't see it although I could have missed it, does anyone think that T.K. could be making up the consensual sex knowing that they will find his DNA since theywhere able to find and talk to him?

Yes, I think a few of us are thinking along those same lines. Would make sense, wouldn't it? :furious:

 

[tardislass]

What if both versions her friend has told each have a little truth. Perhaps her and sarai had talked about it. Sarai spoke about it with her husband, he agreed and said as long as her friend was going.

She talks to her friend again they start to look at tickets, her friend is like I can't go this is too much money. Sarai is bummed but still wants to go. She continues her plans and tells her husband the friend is going. The friend plays along. They decide they will make it sound like she only can't go last minute. Sarai's husband can't change is mind at that point because its throwing away a lot of money....

Ooooh here's a conspiracy for you...husband finds out wife lied and starts stalking her gmail account, finds out wife might be flirting around with guys in Istanbul husband is pissed. Husband hires hit man to kill wife in foreign country....do u think u can find a foreign hit man on line? (I'm not really serious about this theory just FYI)

I think that's the plot of Angelina Jolie's next movie. And I'm sure you can find a hit an online though he might be an undercover cop.

 

[lavy]

I think maybe we assumed that, since it had been said that the boys have been kept rather secluded to be shielded from the news.

Maybe. I remember home schooling will be arranged so I assumed not.

Representative Michael Grimm has acted as a liaison for the family, working through diplomatic channels to aid in the investigation oversees. He says the FBI is now interviewing suspects in Istanbul as well, as many as a dozen, and scouring surveillance video captured from the many cameras that ring that city. He says he’s also approaching New York City’s School’s Chancellor Dennis Walcott about at home schooling support for Serai’s two young sons, ages 9 and 11. ”We are focused on getting Serai home at this point,” said Grimm.

Read more: http://pix11.com/local-news/stories/mom-missing-in-turkey/#ixzz2KANKYBpT

3) Istanbul has a sophisticated video surveillance system throughout the city

By the way some of Istanbul's surveillance cameras can be watched online. Not the normal ones but touristic and traffic ones.
I checked them, not very useful. Especially that we can reach to the recordings. It might be maybe helpful if you want to see the distances from the bridge etc.

 

[necco]

Ooooh here's a conspiracy for you...husband finds out wife lied and starts stalking her gmail account, finds out wife might be flirting around with guys in Istanbul husband is pissed. Husband hires hit man to kill wife in foreign country....do u think u can find a foreign hit man on line? (I'm not really serious about this theory just FYI)

Ok, but how do Moussad and the International InstaGram Drug Smugglers Union fit in?

 

[NewYork625]

I agree we shouldn't overgeneralize. But in order to understand the facts, we have to make some categorizations of what went on and the people involved. I am speaking about the husband as an individual within a particular cultural context. I don't think there's anything wrong with basing my evaluations of what I think happened on what I perceive him to be. How else would we judge if not by our own observations and experiences and knowledge?

I don't believe Ami is disagreeing with you, but stating that from his/her observation of her husband's behavior during an interview, he didn't seem to fit the stereotype.

 

[lavy]

Ok, but how do Moussad and the International InstaGram Drug Smugglers Union fit in?

Simple. When she is at the airport her luggage mixes with a drug smuggler's and Moussad been searching for the hired murderer (which is an ex member)

 

[Yashim]

I'm sorry for hurting your feelings. I'm just getting really sick of hearing about how ignorant so many Americans are about Turkey...I guess I'm a little defensive.

Turkey is a land of contradictions. And no one knows all about it. So while I enjoy and support ThinkHard's defending, I personally don't find such remarks or question any offensive.

20 years ago, on my way to the US for undergraduate studies, I met this nice gentleman from Montana. He was around 45-50. During the entire trip from Zurich to Chicago, he told me so many things about Turkey, not knowing that I was Turkish. And he seemed so full of BS, I just couldn't have the courage to say I was from Turkey until we landed at O'Hare. And now, 20 years later I learned most to be true. Exaggerated but true.

When thinking about this case, it'll help if you understand Turkish culture. Very unlikely to humiliate a dead person. And stoning people to death? That just doesn't happen for any reason. It would be interesting on Criminal Minds. Yet very un-Turkish. Just not part of the culture. What we have is kind of merciful, compassionate violence. Which makes us even more violent sometimes.

Just as no Turk would comment on how worn-out the casket they put SS's body in was. But I understand why some of you did.

 

[ThinkHard]

So assuming they use this method, it seems they can't trace anyone in the same area as she was from the CCTV. Hmm. You would think the perpetrator would have to walk back after he killed her

If they were familiar with the area couldn't they have walked to other way, perhaps a short cut through that wooded area into gulhane park?

 

[kmassoud]

Actually I'm conflicted here. On the one hand, I could see a healthy, fit woman, mother no less, wanting some freedom to explore and travel while she's still young. I don't see anything wrong with visiting a foreign country solo as long as you take precautions. I also don't see anything wrong with staying in a male friend's home as long as you trust them and they you, and there's an understanding about what behaviors you find acceptable in your relationship with each other.

When I was younger and fresh out of college and unwedded yet, I traveled to Europe, Asia, Australia on my own and visited relatives, friends and colleagues I knew there and even stayed in their homes -- to save expenses. Nothing strange about that.

I've not stayed with strangers I've met over the internet though except once and that was only because he knew two good friends of mine real well. So I felt I could trust him because he'd be accountable to not only me, but my two friends as well. And my two friends vouched for his affability and repute.

So IDK what Sarai was thinking. I tend to give her the benefit of the doubt though. I think she was just an innocent woman who wanted to see the world and take some nice photos and share them with the world while she was still young, and before she started school. She may have been a bit naive, but it's a hit-and-miss if you meet someone online. Even the most gentle, kind-hearted person online can turn into a monster when you meet them in real life. You just can't tell via the internet alone.

On the other hand, perhaps she was involved in something -- inadvertently and perhaps even intentionally. Perhaps there was something to be gained financially, etc. in her trip overseas. No one knows for certain. We'll just have to wait for the full investigation.

It's extraordinarily sad that a young life has been taken away, and that she leaves behind two very innocent little boys.

Okay....I haven't been able to read EVERYTHING...but here's what I'm thinking.....

A) I'm still concerned that a Puerto Rican husband would let his wife travel overseas with no issues. (this simply does not play into general reality....could I be wrong? Heck ya! But still....something is suspicious in my mind..and I KNOW Puerto Ricans) I've lived in a patriarchal family oriented structure and my mind continually says, "how did he accept this? HOW!? Even if he was a born and bred American, how many men would let their wives do this with 'no problem'?"


B) I have watched enough 'Locked-up Abroad' to know that things are rarely what they appear. She might have not been a drug-mule, but a GOLD-mule. Most Americans would not have much of an issue with transporting gold. It seems rather harmless, but if her financial situation is at is appears....it seems a not-very-evil way to make money.

C) Locked-up Abroad again: People who chose to be gold-mules OR drug-mules are rarely EVIL. They are simply in a situation where they have to choose the least evil....and transporting a bit of gold doesn't seem that bad. (Especially if you think you can get away with it because you are American). This MAY explain why her jewelry was not particularly important to the killer....what's a few grams compared with a larger amount of gold? Nothing.

D) Locked-up Abroad, AGAIN!: Most American's are naive. And most of us think that we can rise above any situation we face (health or international). Is it possible that Sarai got involved with people who she could not rationalize their criminality?

E) Because my marriage was miserable, I KNOW what it is like to think there is something better far away (we are ALL seeking love). Is it possible that Sarai DID go on her adventure in an attempt to find love? OF COURSE! All any of us want is to be adored and loved. I was the most faithful and moral of wives ever...but when placed in a situation where I thought I'd truly be loved (by a Middle Easterner) I chose hope over reality. I had only had sex with two people in my life, but I can assure you, at a certain point in my life I would have chosen love and passion over duty and values. Since we don't know what Sarai's marriage was like, I don't fell it fair to judge her on what she may or may not have done sexually. Americans are particularly caught up in 'morality'...but when push comes to shove, human-instincts win out.

Even if the New York Times article was not totally preposterous, I think we all need to view Sarai as a human who clearly had financial issues, and may have had emotional issues. (Clearly financial? Yes. If I were traveling overseas and wanted to change my flight, I have the credit to do it on my own without consulting my husband and having him transfer funds. If you are financially viable this would be an odd thing to do. I have NO money...but I AM financially viable. If I were NOT financially viable a) I would not go on such a trip and b) I would not change my flight plans considering they cost hundreds of $'s. I know not everyone is good with their money...but this was a pretty life-changing trip. She MUST have decided to leave early over something truly meaningful (or, perhaps she realized running drugs or gold wasn't for her???)

jmo.

 

[ThinkHard]

Precisely because they ARE out of school and therefore need more time and attention.

I think they are only out of school because they have kept them out of school to shelter them on purpose, not because there schools aren't in session. Winter break for there age group in the US typically end Jan 2. So they would have been in school the entire length of her trip. When she went missing , I think they pulled the kids from school to shield them.

 

[bet2173]

Maybe someone else has mentioned this but when SS was away there are posts on David's instagram account about cheating. One of them quoted from a facebook account goes like this "Don't cheat in relationship, if you are not happy then just leave. A real relationship is where you can tell each other everything & anything. No secrets, no lies."
Another one "stop cheating on your future with your past. It's over. There is only one direction & that is forward."

 

[ThinkHard]

Summers are really hot and humid. And during winter time, the sun sets around 17:00. For example, sunset was 5.06 PM on January 20th. No a great season to take photos or shoot movies.

Actually sometimes cold weather can b good for photography. The air is clear and crisp. In the summer it can be hazy.

She was also a New Yorker, and Istanbul in the winter is usually at least 15 to 20 degrees warmer then NYC.

As I type this it's 50 in Istanbul and 36 in New York (*F)

 

[CMac2]

Interesting...

Canan Gullu, the chair of the Federation of Women’s Associations in Turkey, wrote an open letter addressing Sierra: “You were born in a free country,” Gullu wrote. “You thought that this is a similar country to yours, and that you can go around and stay as you wish. But you died because of your presumption. We face violence every day. We’re being pushed around every day. Here it’s difficult to go out on the street, to attend celebrations on New Year’s Eve, or wear a skirt with a split. You just did not know about all this.”

and

That said, there is a growing problem with respect to gender equality in Turkey, and violence against women is alarmingly on the rise.
A United Nations report released in July 2012 states that women in Turkey experience more domestic violence than those in the United States and Europe. It revealed that 39 percent of women in Turkey have suffered physical violence at some point in their lives, compared with 22 percent in the United States and between 3 and 35 percent across 20 European countries.

http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/ori...er.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

I'm reserving judgment about this article, but I found it on Twitter and thought it provided food for thought- something to chomp on while we're waiting on updates.

 

[tardislass]

Turkey is a land of contradictions. And no one knows all about it. So while I enjoy and support ThinkHard's defending, I personally don't find such remarks or question any offensive.

20 years ago, on my way to the US for undergraduate studies, I met this nice gentleman from Montana. He was around 45-50. During the entire trip from Zurich to Chicago, he told me so many things about Turkey, not knowing that I was Turkish. And he seemed so full of BS, I just couldn't have the courage to say I was from Turkey until we landed at O'Hare. And now, 20 years later I learned most to be true. Exaggerated but true.

When thinking about this case, it'll help if you understand Turkish culture. Very unlikely to humiliate a dead person. And stoning people to death? That just doesn't happen for any reason. It would be interesting on Criminal Minds. Yet very un-Turkish. Just not part of the culture. What we have is kind of merciful, compassionate violence. Which makes us even more violent sometimes.

Just as no Turk would comment on how worn-out the casket they put SS's body in was. But I understand why some of you did.

I didn't comment on the coffin having helped handled my Grandma's, the cost of coffins are outrages- and why I want to be cremated.

Since you've been in the US, I'm sure you know that since Turkey isn't in news here perceptions come from the thought that all Middle Eastern countries(yes Americans think Turkey is in the MidEast) are the same. Not helping matters is our view if Muslim countries are places to fear. I often wish the news or PBS would do more programs about life in those countries. But perhaps if Istanbul wins the 2020 Olympic bid, things will change.

 

[necco]

B) I have watched enough 'Locked-up Abroad' to know that things are rarely what they appear. She might have not been a drug-mule, but a GOLD-mule. Most Americans would not have much of an issue with transporting gold. It seems rather harmless, but if her financial situation is at is appears....it seems a not-very-evil way to make money.

Kmassoud, THANK YOU, I said this in the previous thread two or three times, that should could have carried gold. There is also a market for smuggling antiquities out of Turkey which I also mentioned. Personally, I think if she smuggled something voluntarily, it would MUCH more likely have been gold or antiquities.

 

[CMac2]

I often wish the news or PBS would do more programs about life in those countries. But perhaps if Istanbul wins the 2020 Olympic bid, things will change.

The Olympics?! But how will the athletes compete with their heads covered?

KIDDING!!

 

[KrysJP]

This headline and article is totally unnecessary and disrespectful to SS and her family. How dare they state something like that not knowing facts! DM should be ashamed.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...g-Turkey.html?ito=feeds-newsxml#axzz2K9FqrKfZ

 

[tardislass]

Interesting...



and



http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/ori...er.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

I'm reserving judgment about this article, but I found it on Twitter and thought it provided food for thought- something to chomp on while we're waiting on updates.

I will just say that some of the skirts and heels I see on young Istanbul women in pictures, puts London and Paris to shame. That said, I don't think we can yet blame gender inequality for Sarai's death. While gender bias in Turkey is far behind the EU and US, it's stupid to place blame before having all the facts.