GUILTY Turkey - Sarai Sierra, 33, NY woman murdered, Istanbul, 21 Jan 2013 - #3

[KuriousKev]

Umm Helloo, I'm a little surprised there isn't any discussion about SS last speaking to her husband on the 14th and her kids on the 15th. Did they chat via skype after these dates? Was her father the last to speak to her regarding pick from EWR? I thought her husband said he spoke to her everyday?

 

[necco]

There is something besides "dopey in love" and "divorcing". If this trip was truly a voyage of self discovery, I can understand her not talking to her family for that long. Her children are not babies. They can handle "Mommy's far away and calling is difficult." If I'm abroad without my husband, we don't physically talk. Email. Facebook. Sure, but we don't talk.

 

[KuriousKev]

-Did she told you that she is going to Amsterdam and Munich? Did she went there to take photos too?

Yes. I don't know the people she was speaking to. Police is looking her emails to find out about people she was in contact to. They don't want me to share information in order to not to scare the suspects.

This gets more confusing by the day. I'm sure I read that Ammer (Amsterdam) stated on several occasions that he spoke with the husband about taking care of his wife-even referred to him as a tour guide, now it appears he is contradicting this in the above statement.

Very confusing. Is he now withholding from the press purposely? who knows

 

[Yellow]

Umm Helloo, I'm a little surprised there isn't any discussion about SS last speaking to her husband on the 14th and her kids on the 15th. Did they chat via skype after these dates? Was her father the last to speak to her regarding pick from EWR? I thought her husband said he spoke to her everyday?

Yeah it is not clear if there was no contact or whether they just did not Skype or physically talk, rather they just emailed.

If just email, I do not find anything odd about that...

If no contact at all for 7 days, not even to ask about children, etc., that would be odd

 

[belimom]

There is something besides "dopey in love" and "divorcing". If this trip was truly a voyage of self discovery, I can understand her not talking to her family for that long. Her children are not babies. They can handle "Mommy's far away and calling is difficult." If I'm abroad without my husband, we don't physically talk. Email. Facebook. Sure, but we don't talk.

True that they're not babies. But I can't imagine going that long without talking to my kids, especially if overseas. She Skyped with her dad and IM'd her sister (that last day, I believe?). She could've Skyped her husband and her kids just as easily. They have things they want to tell their mother - things from school (or if homeschooled then everything b/c they has been spending all day with her every day), something they did, etc. They were probably excited about their mom being in a foreign country and wanted to hear what she was doing.

Wasn't it even said that one of the reasons she was returning early was b/c she missed her kids? So why not call them?

When either me or my husband are away, our kids want to talk to us. And vice versa.

I think Sarai was preoccupied with whatever her reason was for going to Turkey. I think she needed a break (as one NY friend has said), but not just a normal need-to-get-away-and-relax break but more of a what-am-I-doing-with-my-life break. And I think she pulled away from that connection of wife/mother in order to do some deep soul searching. All speculation. But I can then maybe understand a bit more.

(But still... I couldn't go that long without talking to my kids. I'd miss them, they'd miss me.)

 

[looking4answers]

O

About the pants.....I keep thinking to myself, even if I were REALLY strong, moving a 100+lb dead body (by myself) would not be an easy undertaking, especially if it were pushed INTO or dragged out of a 'hole/cave'. If there was little room to navigate inside the crevice, it could be surmised that one would pull or drag the body by the clothing and shoes. It would be too difficult to push a dead body into a small area feet first, so I would assume she was put there head first and adjusted by the legs. I just keep imagining someone placing a dead body in a location where it can't be carried and laid down and I just don't think it would be very easy. Granted, I don't think we know EXACTLY where she was found, but the killer could have pulled her shoes off and then not wanted to try and put them back on. Also, the pants could have been pulled down along with the underwear simply by force of pulling on the legs of the jeans.

Assuming we are 100% sure that small 1m hole is where her body was found, and not the hole to the left under the arch?

If so, I am curious, how high the hole is off the ground? Doesnt seem too high, maybe 2-3 feet?

Also, the size is about a 1m across and 1 meter high?

Is there any other access to the cave inside, any other entrance?

If not, it would definitely require a single strong person to get her in.

Also, a person who is too large would seem to struggle to get in there themselves and then back out.

Would seem more than 1 medium sized people might helped move her in. Either youthful or somewhat athletic or nimble. Either that or very very determined to hide her there out of the way.

What about the possibility she was threatened to climb in or even climbed in of her own volition to take pics of more graffiti inside? This last one is possible and with not knowing how large the inside maybe someone was in there she didn't initially see and ambushed her.

Just some thoughts and questions

 

[necco]

True that they're not babies. But I can't imagine going that long without talking to my kids, especially if overseas. She Skyped with her dad and IM'd her sister (that last day, I believe?). She could've Skyped her husband and her kids just as easily. They have things they want to tell their mother - things from school (or if homeschooled then everything b/c they has been spending all day with her every day), something they did, etc. They were probably excited about their mom being in a foreign country and wanted to hear what she was doing.

Ever try to orchestrate a skype call around a 7 hour time difference, school schedules, work schedules and bedtimes? I have. You succeed in getting the call through about 1 in 10 times. Skype can also be quite finicky. Did she audio/video skype her dad? Just audio? Just text? Skyping as a verb can entail everything from a face to face chat to what is essentially a text message.

 

[belimom]

Ever try to orchestrate a skype call around a 7 hour time difference, school schedules, work schedules and bedtimes? I have. You succeed in getting the call through about 1 in 10 times. Skype can also be quite finicky. Did she audio/video skype her dad? Just audio? Just text? Skyping as a verb can entail everything from a face to face chat to what is essentially a text message.

We have worked with time differences, as my DH is an int'l consultant and travels globally. But not with Skype. I do admit it is hard - but a week? Seems like a long time. I know we disagree and I really do see your point. I just couldn't do it personally.

ETA: Now that I think about it, Necco, it is hard with cell phones. Many countries will not allow int'l calls with cell phones, many plans don't allow it, and if I recall correctly, when we lived in Egypt, we had to buy a calling card - and even that didn't always work. And we had to be the ones to call everyone - they couldn't reach us, meaning they could not initiate the call. With my DH, it's different. Because he travels for his company, he has a phone and calling plan that works. And he stays in hotels and can call from a landline if necessary ($$$$$). Sarai didn't have those options at her disposal. I can see that it would be difficult - I forgot that they couldn't easily reach her and also all the nuances of int'l calls from other countries.

And, he didn't say they didn't communicate. Only that they last spoke on that day.

 

[zarra30]

Ever try to orchestrate a skype call around a 7 hour time difference, school schedules, work schedules and bedtimes? I have. You succeed in getting the call through about 1 in 10 times. Skype can also be quite finicky. Did she audio/video skype her dad? Just audio? Just text? Skyping as a verb can entail everything from a face to face chat to what is essentially a text message.

I think I read in a couple of papers that they skyped or at least spoke up till the 20th. The 21st was only texts coming from her phone or Ipad.

 

[summerprincess]

Married New York mother told landlord she was SINGLE weeks before she was brutally murdered on trip to Turkey.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...told-landlord-single-woman.html#axzz2K4kTyOnk

 

[SophieRose]

O



Assuming we are 100% sure that small 1m hole is where her body was found, and not the hole to the left under the arch?

If so, I am curious, how high the hole is off the ground? Doesnt seem too high, maybe 2-3 feet?

Also, the size is about a 1m across and 1 meter high?

Is there any other access to the cave inside, any other entrance?

If not, it would definitely require a single strong person to get her in.

Also, a person who is too large would seem to struggle to get in there themselves and then back out.

Would seem more than 1 medium sized people might helped move her in. Either youthful or somewhat athletic or nimble. Either that or very very determined to hide her there out of the way.

What about the possibility she was threatened to climb in or even climbed in of her own volition to take pics of more graffiti inside? This last one is possible and with not knowing how large the inside maybe someone was in there she didn't initially see and ambushed her.

Just some thoughts and questions

I found these pictures several days ago taken of the hole during the daylight.

This one the hole is dark.
http://media.sondevir.com/250x190/2013/02/03/sarai-sierra3-copy.jpg

This one appears to have some light coming from the other side.
http://www.haberler.com/haber-resim...n-kupeleri-bulundu-iddiasi-4301623_5012_o.jpg

 

[kmassoud]

O



Assuming we are 100% sure that small 1m hole is where her body was found, and not the hole to the left under the arch?

If so, I am curious, how high the hole is off the ground? Doesnt seem too high, maybe 2-3 feet?

Also, the size is about a 1m across and 1 meter high?

Is there any other access to the cave inside, any other entrance?

If not, it would definitely require a single strong person to get her in.

Also, a person who is too large would seem to struggle to get in there themselves and then back out.

Would seem more than 1 medium sized people might helped move her in. Either youthful or somewhat athletic or nimble. Either that or very very determined to hide her there out of the way.

What about the possibility she was threatened to climb in or even climbed in of her own volition to take pics of more graffiti inside? This last one is possible and with not knowing how large the inside maybe someone was in there she didn't initially see and ambushed her.

Just some thoughts and questions

I'm not sure anyone knows exactly where her body was found (or even if it was in one of the places photographed)....but I do think we know it was not out in the open. My thought was just that if you pulled someone's pants down while trying to adjust them in any kind of confined area, it would be very difficult to get them back up. So instead of being something sexual in nature, it may have simply been a technicality.

 

[zarra30]

Regarding Sarai's contact with the family:

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...nd-found-dead-turkey-report-article-1.1253840

“Sierra, who worked part-time at a chiropractor’s office and was studying for a bachelor’s degree at the College of Staten Island, arrived in Istanbul Jan. 7. Her family says she was last heard from in a text to her sister Jan. 20, the day before her scheduled flight back to New York. A witness told police she had seen a white car on Tuesday night, parked where Sierra’s”

AND
http://pix11.com/2013/02/05/photos-...-turkey-to-pay-for-her-funeral/#axzz2KT6QLGvn

A timeline of Sierra’s trip showed she arrived in Istanbul January 7th, renting a basement apartment in Istanbul—in one of the city’s seedier neighborhoods. She posted photos of her journey, using her iPad, and made a side trip to Amsterdam on January 15th, followed by a stop in Munich, before returning to Istanbul January 18th.She “skyped” with her two boys back home on January 20th and was supposed to fly to New York on January 21st.

 

[belimom]

Regarding Sarai's contact with the family:

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...nd-found-dead-turkey-report-article-1.1253840

“Sierra, who worked part-time at a chiropractor’s office and was studying for a bachelor’s degree at the College of Staten Island, arrived in Istanbul Jan. 7. Her family says she was last heard from in a text to her sister Jan. 20, the day before her scheduled flight back to New York. A witness told police she had seen a white car on Tuesday night, parked where Sierra’s”

AND
http://pix11.com/2013/02/05/photos-...-turkey-to-pay-for-her-funeral/#axzz2KT6QLGvn

A timeline of Sierra’s trip showed she arrived in Istanbul January 7th, renting a basement apartment in Istanbul—in one of the city’s seedier neighborhoods. She posted photos of her journey, using her iPad, and made a side trip to Amsterdam on January 15th, followed by a stop in Munich, before returning to Istanbul January 18th.She “skyped” with her two boys back home on January 20th and was supposed to fly to New York on January 21st.

Thanks for the info. We were going on an article that quoted her husband as saying they last spoke on 1/15, I believe.

 

[zarra30]

Married New York mother told landlord she was SINGLE weeks before she was brutally murdered on trip to Turkey.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...told-landlord-single-woman.html#axzz2K4kTyOnk

Really, what is his point in telling that to the press?
As in "She wasn't honest.."
or as in "If I'd known she was married with children..."???

He certainly is selective in what he chooses to say...

 

[zarra30]

Is the 'single' remark somehow implying she wasn't respectable? Does he mean maybe he would not have have rented to her if he knew she was single?

It seems an unnecessary remark for him to have made. But we don't know the context. He might have been asked by a reporter "Did you know she was married?" And he said, no, she told me she wasn't.
It could have been an innocent answer to a question.

I just find it sad that out of all the time she spent in Istanbul and all of the people she undoubtedly met, if only for an instant, no one is saying anything like.."She seemed quite friendly" or "She seemed polite...kind.... or... interesting" or "I saw her taking pictures of that Mosque and she seemed to be fascinated with it"

I get that no one wants to be connected to such a story with such a sad ending, but at least Ammer had nothing negative to say about her... and he was in the middle of the mess too...the media wasn't so kind to him.

 

[Yellow]

Married New York mother told landlord she was SINGLE weeks before she was brutally murdered on trip to Turkey.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...told-landlord-single-woman.html#axzz2K4kTyOnk

It may be irrelevant what she told landlord. Maybe she perceived (wrongly or not) that some people may look down upon a married women traveling alone. Or perhaps she thought that a married women traveling alone would arouse suspicion she was there for other purposes

For all we know maybe the hostel owner was hot, it seems like SS was separated and if she was looking for a fling, you would not tell your potential suitor you were married...

 

[necco]

Frankly, what she tells people doesn't bother me. If she was really trying to appear single, she would have taken off her ring.

 

[looking4answers]

I found these pictures several days ago taken of the hole during the daylight.

This one the hole is dark.
http://media.sondevir.com/250x190/2013/02/03/sarai-sierra3-copy.jpg

This one appears to have some light coming from the other side.
http://www.haberler.com/haber-resim...n-kupeleri-bulundu-iddiasi-4301623_5012_o.jpg

Thank you for that, yes it doesn't seem any of the detectives accessed the opening from the front hole, probably not even Sarai or who placed her there. Looks like there is light seen on the other side, and probably a bigger more accessible opening. This just leaves open the possibility she could have walked into it and been ambushed, or someone forced her there or placed her there after the fact.

 

[looking4answers]

I'm not sure anyone knows exactly where her body was found (or even if it was in one of the places photographed)....but I do think we know it was not out in the open. My thought was just that if you pulled someone's pants down while trying to adjust them in any kind of confined area, it would be very difficult to get them back up. So instead of being something sexual in nature, it may have simply been a technicality.

Yes, not sure, we can't see much of the other side of the opening. So how open the other side, I have no idea. I do remember when one US reporter was walking up top of the walls while on camera and specifically said her body was found in or near trees. In the second pic with light of day, I do see some tree or growth back there, so maybe it is more open behind. This again, this suggests it may not have been so hard to physically get her there, especially if there is graffiti there and she was adventurous and wandered over there herself. We really do not know at this point though, if it happened there, or she was moved there even from a short distance.