GUILTY Turkey - Sarai Sierra, 33, NY woman murdered, Istanbul, 21 Jan 2013 - #3

[lavy]

Ok, what circumstances point to random attack?
1. Location of where body was found
2. She had been walking VERY near the area, alone (a not-so-great area to boot), just prior to disappearing
3. Yashim was an eyewitness to the crime, saw the entire thing, and can testify under oath he saw a 14 year old paint-sniffing druggy who is not very strong do it.
4. Other attacks in the same area SS' body was found- random in nature
5. What else??

Conversely, what points to SS being murdered at the hands of someone she knew?
1. Speculation that the trip to Turkey was not what it originally appeared to be (i.e. photography may not have been the only reason for this trip)
2. Rumors of marital discord
3. Taylan (I don't need to clarify beyond his name, right? Just imagine me saying, "TAYLAN!!" with my fist in the air. Kind of like, "Foiled again!")
4. Rumors that she met creepy carpet-guy twice on the trip
5. Rumors that surveillance video shows SS being followed in the mall in the day (or was it 2 days- can't remember) before she went missing
6. Botched plans to meet at the bridge the morning she went missing (TAYLAN again!! **Fist in air**)
7. Rumors of Taylan having a sexual relationship/not having a sexual relationship with SS
8. Rumors of SS telling landlord she's unmarried (could mean nothing- may not even be true at all, frankly)
8. Amsterdam Ammer's statement (again, may not even be true) that SS was uncomfortable with certain folks in Istanbul
9. Unexplained shortening of trip to come back home
10. Rumors that SS met with at least one other male, as yet unidentified, from IG in Instanbul
11. What else???

Random attack:
5- LE saying she was taking photos and crossed the rood to take photos.

Attacked by someone she knew:
11-Her jewelery wasn't taken.

 

[ToutCa]

But this article from yesterday based on the times, make it feel more like she wasnt stopping, at all, but rather walked straight from her rented room to the walls. Which at least to me, feels more like that was her original plan to begin with. And that was where her focus was that morning. It also makes me feel even stronger, that she knew exactly where she was going because she had been there before.

I don't trust the Daily News account much, most especially when it comes down to the exact times she was certain places.

LE is not revealing all they knew about where she was and when she was there (if they have her on 20 cameras). Nor have they released any images from that day.

It's just really hard to draw conclusions on what her plan was and how she was acting when LE (on purpose) won't let us have the evidence to go on.

 

[ThinkHard]

Random attack:
5- LE saying she was taking photos and crossed the rood to take photos.

Attacked by someone she knew:
11-Her jewelery wasn't taken.

How does LE know she crossed the road to take photos, wasnt that just the reason the assumed she crossed the road?

 

[ThinkHard]

I don't trust the Daily News account much, most especially when it comes down to the exact times she was certain places.

LE is not revealing all they knew about where she was and when she was there (if they have her on 20 cameras). Nor have they released any images from that day.

It's just really hard to draw conclusions on what her plan was and how she was acting when LE (on purpose) won't let us have the evidence to go on.

Totally agree.

Geez now if they would just get smart and give us the facts, we'd have this thing in the bag.

 

[Herat]

Here's what is different about Sarai's January 21 trip:

1. Didn't take The Green Bag
2. Was wearing earrings and bracelet

I'm thinking she didn't take The Green Bag because she didn't want to be a theft target. I also think she was intending to photograph the railroad tracks and graffitti, probably with a IG friend who had cautioned her about theft in that area.

In that case, I don't understand why she'd also take the I-pad unless she was also going to edit photos in a cafe with wifi, possibly with IG friend.

Like everyone else, I don't believe she was doing this all by herself in an area where everyone is warned about running into unsavory people. She's also experienced in photographing in areas like this in NY, so she has some understanding of what sorts of people hang around railroad tracks and deserted, graffiti-strewn places.

 

[Herat]

I'm confused about which road it was that she crossed. (I'm looking at googleearth)

Sayanbunu or Kennedy?

I don't recall any comments that she has been captured on CCTV actually photographing on Jan21, just walking by with brisk intent.

 

[lavy]

How does LE know she crossed the road to take photos, wasnt that just the reason the assumed she crossed the road?

Maybe, I am confused again. We discussed the actual sentence for a while if it means police really saw her taking photos or just assumed it. I don't remember the outcome.

 

[ThinkHard]

Here's what is different about Sarai's January 21 trip:

1. Didn't take The Green Bag
2. Was wearing earrings and bracelet

I'm thinking she didn't take The Green Bag because she didn't want to be a theft target. I also think she was intending to photograph the railroad tracks and graffitti, probably with a IG friend who had cautioned her about theft in that area.

In that case, I don't understand why she'd also take the I-pad unless she was also going to edit photos in a cafe with wifi, possibly with IG friend.

Like everyone else, I don't believe she was doing this all by herself in an area where everyone is warned about running into unsavory people. She's also experienced in photographing in areas like this in NY, so she has some understanding of what sorts of people hang around railroad tracks and deserted, graffiti-strewn places.

I don't know how we know that she was wearing or not wearing jewelry she normally did or didn't.

As far as the bag is concerned, isn't it possible she bought a new bag in turkey, something cool artsy and handmade, whenever I buy something new, I can't wait to use it.

 

[ToutCa]

Random attack:

-- she loved photographing graffiti, RR tracks, derelict structures
-- she IM'd Taylan she was comfortable exploring on her own
-- she strode around like she owned the town, earbuds in, face set
-- she carried and may have had out flashy electronics thieves might like
-- she was a foreign woman venturing by herself into a "sketchy" area
-- she was very short and may have been seen as a pushover (or even as younger than she was, a child easy to rob from or sexually assault)

I'd actually divide up the Non-Random attack into 3 sub-categories:
Theft by known subject, sexual/romantic assault by known subject, and illicit dealing with known subject. I'm sure we can find dozens of reasons to believe each.

 

[ThinkHard]

I'm confused about which road it was that she crossed. (I'm looking at googleearth)

Sayanbunu or Kennedy?

I don't recall any comments that she has been captured on CCTV actually photographing on Jan21, just walking by with brisk intent.

Kennedy

 

[ToutCa]

I'm confused about which road it was that she crossed. (I'm looking at googleearth)

Sayanbunu or Kennedy?

I don't recall any comments that she has been captured on CCTV actually photographing on Jan21, just walking by with brisk intent.

LE has not described the 20 images they have in that kind of detail. All they've said is that she was alone and not being followed on the Galata Bridge.

We don't know where she was last seen -- stories are conflicting.

The New York Daily News reported yesterday that she was last seen crossing the Sarayburnu St. to continue down Kennedy Caddesi at 12:44pm. That conflicts with prior accounts (see above), so we can't say for sure.

 

[ToutCa]

Maybe, I am confused again. We discussed the actual sentence for a while if it means police really saw her taking photos or just assumed it. I don't remember the outcome.

LE was pretty vague, so who knows?

Some press reports seemed to imply that saw her on camera starting to cross Kennedy Caddesi by the walls where she was found. Others implied they just gathered that she had because she didn't turn up further on wherever the next camera is.

No way to know.

 

[ThinkHard]

Random attack:

-- she loved photographing graffiti, RR tracks, derelict structures
-- she IM'd Taylan she was comfortable exploring on her own
-- she strode around like she owned the town, earbuds in, face set
-- she carried and may have had out flashy electronics thieves might like
-- she was a foreign woman venturing by herself into a "sketchy" area
-- she was very short and may have been seen as a pushover (or even as younger than she was, a child easy to rob from or sexually assault)

I'd actually divide up the Non-Random attack into 3 sub-categories:
Theft by known subject, sexual/romantic assault by known subject, and illicit dealing with known subject. I'm sure we can find dozens of reasons to believe each.

One thing though is, though we know she liked to photograph those types of places...she has no history of going to those types of places alone as far as we can tell.

Also she would have had no idea that those railroad tracks were behind the walls, unless she someone told her, or she had been there with someone before.

 

[lavy]

Here is the thing about those other attacks at that area....do we actually know they were random? Or are we just assuming they are random? What set of circumstances put those three other women randomly at that spot? Perhaps those other attacks were not random at all. I don't think we can really determine the circumstances of those attacks. I don't even think we know who the attacker was in those circumstances, so how do we know it was random. Perhaps even those attacks were not random but in those cases the victims had been lured there as well. From the reports we only know that 3 other girls were victims of attempted rape in that spot....we know nothing else....so I'm not sure we can say they are random with any certainty.

I checked those ones. In all other cases the sole purpose of the peep seems to be sexual assault. In the case which is very similar where a japan tourist had a blow to her head by a rock the peep is identified and arrested.

One threatened by a knife and pulled there at 3 am
The other one lured there
The other one - japanese one: peep asked for a cigarette, she asked for the directions of the hotel. He said I can take you there...

No murder involved.

 

[Herat]

I bring up the jewelry because she is never photographed wearing earrings in NYC. Only the coiled rose ring.

I have to think this was jewelry she bought in Istanbul or maybe was given as a gift. We know she didn't have much money with her. (reportedly had $400 total and had to get money sent to change flights). If it was a gift, maybe she was wearing the jewelry to please the person who gave it to her, like the person she was meeting.

Do we know if TaylanK knew exactly where she was staying?

Once again, did she decide to change her flights before or after meeting TaylanK for the first time? It sounds like afterward.

I find it strange that she would not have seen her IG friends more often. If I was visiting a foreign city recommended by IG friends, especially where language may be a problem, I would be relying heavily on them for contact.

Things that make you go hmmmm.

 

[blossomfish]

If you look at photos number 10 and 11 in this gallery, I think it may show the person who may have been following Sarai near the mall

http://galeri.haberturk.com/gundem/galeri/423673-kayip-sarainin-pesindeki-esrarengiz-takipci

 

[ToutCa]

One thing though is, though we know she liked to photograph those types of places...she has no history of going to those types of places alone as far as we can tell.

That's an interesting point. There may be something to that. I haven't perused her IG page to see if she did solo urban projects.

Also she would have had no idea that those railroad tracks were behind the walls, unless she someone told her, or she had been there with someone before.

But she'd been in town a long time -- she could have heard about them, read about them, seen them on a map...especially if she was saying to everyone "where can i take photos of RR tracks in an area nearby that looks cool?"

 

[necco]

I know you were generalizing, but the thing is most Christians in turkey as well as other predominantly Muslim countries would not consider themselves catholic. They would consider themselves Coptic Christians.

Respectfully snipped. Yes, I know some of them would not call themselves Catholic. That is why I explained why I do. Why would you bother to correct me when I said the very thing you're correcting IN MY POST? I'm not Coptic, so I referred to all of the groups I alluded to the way my culture does.

Some of the articles also referred to the Armenian church that held Sarai's body as Catholic.

And also this website details the Eparchy of Constantinople: http://www.armeniancatholic.org/inside.php?lang=en&page_id=315

 

[ThinkHard]

I checked those ones. In all other cases the sole purpose of the peep seems to be sexual assault. In the case which is very similar where a japan tourist had a blow to her head by a rock the peep is identified and arrested.

One threatened by a knife and pulled there at 3 am
The other one lured there
The other one - japanese one: peep asked for a cigarette, she asked for the directions of the hotel. He said I can take you there...

No murder involved.

Thanks for the info. This makes me feel like the murder of sarai really has no relation to these incidents. However I think the perp knew this spot was shady, and that it might be more convincing that it was random, if she was found there.

 

[belimom]

Random attack:
5- LE saying she was taking photos and crossed the rood to take photos.

Attacked by someone she knew:
11-Her jewelery wasn't taken.

I wouldn't discount a random attack just because her jewelry wasn't taken, especially the rings. The electronic items were the big ticket and easy to grab, maybe along with any cash she had. My wedding rings are very hard to remove. They only come off with soapy water or lotion. If the same were true for Sarai, someone may have decided to make a quick getaway with what they could grab, not risking getting caught at the scene of the crime.

Having said that, I'm still on the fence about random vs acquaintance.

Now back to work...:seeya: