GUILTY Turkey - Sarai Sierra, 33, NY woman murdered, Istanbul, 21 Jan 2013 - #4

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

Which justifies ToutCa's opinon :

SS meant nothing more to him than a conquest who turned annoying (by dying)

Just the same as Ammer and Taylan may mean nothing to SS also.
They may be irrelavant to SS case and only been visited delibaretly to cover an illegal issue going nerby a drug business.

 

[blossomfish]

I think that if Ammer had something to hide he would have done as TK, changed online identities, shut down accounts etc. He didn't do any of that and I am more concerned about TK who did seem to go into hiding when the news broke about Sarai's death.

 

[ToutCa]

I think that if Ammer had something to hide he would have done as TK, changed online identities, shut down accounts etc. He didn't do any of that and I am more concerned about TK who did seem to go into hiding when the news broke about Sarai's death.

He's just smarter than Taylan TK.

He knows that anything online is public. Tearing it down later does no good.

It's not evidence he is an angel. It's evidence he is at least smart enough to keep anything questionable offline.

My guess is that he's up to nothing more sinister than toking up a little and now and then "showing his city" to female internet guests he has lured to "his couch". He's no "tour guide" in any real sense of the word. I think LE should look into his drug contacts to see if SS got mixed up in anything, but my guess is he's guilty of nothing more than smarmy seduction.

 

[english]

Another thing with this ticket changing - if she felt she was in danger early on then wouldn't she change her ticket departure from IST to AMS back to NY? Instead, she changed the days, but not departure destination.

Here are some of the big oddities that stick out to me:
- She paid a substantial amount of money to change the flight. She even needed money wired to do so. (This insinuates it was very pressing.)
- She received mail. Getting something that important while traveling and not being sure if it would even arrive seems off. It's also untrackable if that evidence was destroyed, which would be easier to do than with email.
- She didn't have that green bag, which we saw was virtually always with her.
- She had internet to skype, but didn't upload hardly any of her IG photos on this "photo trip".
- She was going to be in contact with enough people to necessitate having a Turkish cell phone.

- So this last day she didn't take the green bag, didn't take the Turkish phone, and didn't make her flight. Very curious. Some may be coincidence, but I don't think all are.

Someone a bit further back commented if this was drug or trafficking of whatever kind related it could explain why all sides seem delayed on contacting the authorities about her missing.

I agree that she had previously felt in no danger in Istanbul or why return there from Amsterdam/Munich. I have no ideas on why she changed her ticket to return early. I don't know enough about American school enrolment to have an opinion on that. My thought is, if it was the "trip of a lifetime", why cut it short by 4 days.

I agree that an innocent looking letter through the mail could be untraceable, but the mailing system is too unreliable in my opinion.

Speaking personally, if I go on a holiday such as this, I have one bag containing everything I could need on a daily basis (phone, camera, wallet, passport, umbrella, tissues etc) and I never go anywhere without this bag.

In the New York Times article posted today the first comment that struck me was :
Mr. Sierra found himself in places, like a picturesque Istanbul mall, that had appeared on his wife’s Instagram account; seemingly virtual scenes that he had never expected to visit in person. The experience, he said, was “surreal.”
I didn't remember seeing any pictures of a mall so went to check. There is a picture. I can't see all the comments but a couple stuck me "You should def do it..I planned on a whim, so glad I did.. having a blast so far" and "it's pretty dope J...and practicing my night shots too" (I thought she stayed in her room at night).

 

[english]

He's just smarter than Taylan TK.

He knows that anything online is public. Tearing it down later does no good.

It's not evidence he is an angel. It's evidence he is at least smart enough to keep anything questionable offline.

My guess is that he's up to nothing more sinister than toking up a little and now and then "showing his city" to female internet guests he has lured to "his couch". He's no "tour guide" in any real sense of the word. I think LE should look into his drug contacts to see if SS got mixed up in anything, but my guess is he's guilty of nothing more than smarmy seduction.

You shouldn't judge a book by it's cover, but my initial thoughts on seeing photos were Taylan - nice bloke who felt obligated to meet up with her after she had travelled all that way/lothario up for some unattached sex (little did he know what was to come), Ammer - smarmy.

 

[ToutCa]

I agree that she had previously felt in no danger in Istanbul or why return there from Amsterdam/Munich. I have no ideas on why she changed her ticket to return early. I don't know enough about American school enrolment to have an opinion on that. My thought is, if it was the "trip of a lifetime", why cut it short by 4 days.

If you really want to drive yourself crazy on the "trip cut short" part, look up the quote from her friend who said the trip was originally supposed to be 3 weeks. Everyone on here asks about why it was cut back from Jan. 25 to 21/22. But what about the 3 weeks? When was it cut back from Jan. 29 to Jan. 25? And why?

Speaking personally, if I go on a holiday such as this, I have one bag

Everyone travels differently. She had an apartment rented in IST that she could just dump all her stuff in, and divide it up into as many different bags as she felt like for the side trip and different day trips.

(I thought she stayed in her room at night)

The only person that I am aware said that was her good friend who was supposed to go on the trip but bailed. She was just trying to protect SS's reputation, her statement doesn't really have much value.

 

[Chewy]

Thanks for bringing this to this thread. I've not seen it before.

But I'll say either her hubby's a real saint or he's the biggest con. I'll wager it's the former because I don't believe he had anything to do with Sarai's murder.

On the other hand, I don't understand how if he loved his wife so much, why he isn't scouring all the news stories and whatever information he can find in order to find her killer and bring him to justice.

He says he's overwhelmed, but his wife, the mother of his two beautiful children, was brutally, savagely murdered. You'd think he'd want to find this murdering SOB ASAP and beat this perp senseless.

He's probably exhausted?

 

[stmarysmead]

I don't see anyone beating her to death over unrequited love or great passion. These were casual hookups...sex in a seedy bar bathroom...there is no indication anyone was romancing her...or in love with her. Her internet "tour guides" knew she was on a vacation. That implies that one will arrive and DEPART for home in a designated time. So there could be no sudden shock that SS was going home. There is no relationship here of any depth with these men. I doubt anyone killed her for love.

And her passion for photography seems to have fizzled over there. I know many artists and creatively, they would be impatient to get their "art" posted. Not so with Sarai. I no longer believe the cover story of this "artistic" journey...anymore than I believe these similar looking guys were her friendly "tour guides." There has been a great effort to "pretty up" this story. Maybe to protect the children...maybe to cover criminal activity. We shall see.

I do believe there was rage in this killing. Since there is no love story here...no one person spending all his time romancing SS...I think the rage had another genesis. I think the rumors of contact with a criminal element make sense when combined in the scenario of the mysterious package and the Turkish phone...the changed flights...the trips to Munich and Amsterdam....the lack of posted photos...and the rage filled beating death. As in any mystery, we can say any ONE of those items can be explained away...but taken all together, they make a strong circumstanial case for something hinky about this whole thing.

 

[ToutCa]

I don't see anyone beating her to death over unrequited love or great passion. These were casual hookups...sex in a seedy bar bathroom...there is no indication anyone was romancing her...or in love with her. Her internet "tour guides" knew she was on a vacation. That implies that one will arrive and DEPART for home in a designated time. So there could be no sudden shock that SS was going home. There is no relationship here of any depth with these men. I doubt anyone killed her for love.

Ah, I completely disagree with this. We know Taylan, for one, was single, and admitted chatting with SS for months leading up to her trip to Istanbul. They had at least 3 dates, the last one broken right when she disappeared. The only evidence so far we have that he had no attachment with her is a self-serving statement by his lawyer (very curious to me that his lawyer insisted so much there was no emotional attachment, almost as if - hint, hint - LE has been asking Taylan insistently about that very possibility?) . And the only evidence of seedy bar bathroom sex is Taylan's unconfirmed claim to LE. Jury's still out on whether one of the guys (Taylan?) was pining for her.

I no longer believe the cover story of this "artistic" journey...

Yes, we all agree on that. But nothing has emerged yet to say the cover was anything more than over her desire to flirt and have a good time.

strong circumstanial case for something hinky about this whole thing.

There is at least as strong a circumstantial case for her being killed by a deluded suitor. And, hmmm, we just happen to have one in the area, who was supposed to meet her right when she disappeared...

I'm just saying, I definitely consider the drug angle, but it's one among many possibilities. And if turns out the DNA hasn't cleared him, it's hard to imagine Taylan is not your guy.

 

[stmarysmead]

If Taylan had such a romantic interest in her, why did they only have two dates in the time that SS was in Istanbul? The third never happened, supposedly because he overslept.

TWO times...this is wild, crazy love? this fits more with the casual hookup story,then some besotted suitor. There is nothing to indicate he had any feelings for her at all.

They chatted online...well he has no job, it is something to do. He meets her, and if they were intimate, he doesn't even go to the trouble to get a room or take her home. The sex is meaningless...as is SHE to him. Then, suddenly, he hears from the husband. I'll bet he wanted no part of this trouble.

There is not one indication that SS was anything much to him. Even the last "date" that never happened, seems to have been instigated by HER. "Can you come?"

I don't think he was that into her. I doubt he has any major part in this.

 

[Sandstorm]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/12/n...-woman-a-grim-and-uncertain-odyssey.html?_r=0

 

[EncyclopediaBrown]

what's the deal with her being followed in the video surveillance? is it a fact she was being followed or WS speculation?

 

[ToutCa]

I don't share your feelings that Taylan is clearly out.

If the DNA hasn't cleared him, it's almost impossible to see how it can't be him.

If Taylan had such a romantic interest in her, why did they only have two dates in the time that SS was in Istanbul? The third never happened, supposedly because he overslept.

TWO times...this is wild, crazy love? this fits more with the casual hookup story,then some besotted suitor. There is nothing to indicate he had any feelings for her at all.

Perhaps Taylan pursued her by phone, IM, and email, the whole time, asking for dates and arranging hook-ups. We don't know. Maybe she was fending him off the whole time she was there, and it was her who wanted the occasional hook-ups while he was gunning for more.

Surely you are aware that lonely people fall in love with others online. They are willing to send their life savings, get married, and do crazy things for what they imagine to be love. This love may not have followed the pattern you find typical. That doesn't mean it didn't happen.

They chatted online...well he has no job, it is something to do. He meets her, and if they were intimate, he doesn't even go to the trouble to get a room or take her home. The sex is meaningless...as is SHE to him. Then, suddenly, he hears from the husband. I'll bet he wanted no part of this trouble.

All your speculation as to his feelings. I could just as easily speculate the opposite: Taylan pined for SS and the secrecy of their hook-ups only intoxicated him further. The more she tried to keep their relationship occasional, the more he read it as heating up into something enduring. After he kills her, when he hears from the husband, he definitely wants no part of the trouble. If he's so innocent, why didn't he act like a typical player Ammer and be cool and do what he could to help track this missing woman down? Instead he went into CYA mode as a guilty man would.

There is not one indication that SS was anything much to him. Even the last "date" that never happened, seems to have been instigated by HER. "Can you come?"

I don't think he was that into her. I doubt he has any major part in this.

There's no indication of WHAT SS meant to him, period. The paltry evidence can easily be interpreted to suggest his guilt. Maybe she wanted to see him because the night before, they had sex, and she had been swayed by his romance and talked about building a life with him. The next morning, she realizes this is madness, and wants to see him because she had felt something for him and wants to let him down easily. See how easy it is?

There are multiple explanations of the evidence possible.

My feeling is that if he hasn't been cleared by DNA evidence, Taylan is candidate number one.

 

[ToutCa]

what's the deal with her being followed in the video surveillance? is it a fact she was being followed or WS speculation?

Jan. 20 videos -- cops released them early on of her in a mall cafeteria. Some people online think there was some guy vaguely following her, but seems pretty doubtful it's of any use. It was the day before she vanished, for one. Secondly, it's a stretch to say the brief snippets of video show anyone following. Thirdly, with LE holding all the evidence so tightly, why would they release video of a potential perp?

Jan. 21 videos -- none released, cops have her in at least 20. All cops have said is that in the videos that show her walking to and on the Galata Bridge, she was definitely alone and definitely not being followed. There are videos of her after the Bridge, and there has been no official comment on those (as to if she was alone and her demeanor).

Hope that helps.

 

[Elley Mae]

1)SS bought a local phone in İST right? I wanna ask something ?How many of you bought a local phone when you went on a trip anywhere abroad ? She already used SKype with home, she travelled alone , with whom would she be interacted so much as far we only know one person and they could well corresponce on line , MSN , messages or so on. WHY did she buy one with her that limited budget? beacuse she NEEDED one but for what ? Its too strange to me. Is it a common thing buying one abroad? What you say abt that? I havent been to so many countries so ı really dont know but still comes odd if you are just a simple tourist .Maybe beacuse she was to do so .

2)Moreover KEY question comes ..where did she buy it? is there any camera , credit card or bill or invoice for that ? Maybe she was given that one in IST for private messaging.
I think tracing that phone will bring out some facts if there is any of course?

3)BTW she didnt use credit card as far as we know ? did she ?I wonder if she had one in US because if she had, she would have brought it to this long trip with her.. she might have used it / his husbands card number would even do that at least for paying the exhange of her tickets but she didnt use it instead husband sent it by wire. Another costly way to send funds ..Why didnt she do that on the net=? we dont know..

Thank You for this post.

bbm, I thought that because I am not a world traveler that I was missing something with the (turkish phone). To me is was nothing more then her being sneaky (if true) why oh why would a first time traveler do this? It was/is the weirdest part of the story. I still call BS on the whole thing, it just stinks of lies. I do feel so sorry for the boys.

 

[stmarysmead]

I don't share your feelings that Taylan is clearly out.

If the DNA hasn't cleared him, it's almost impossible to see how it can't be him.



Perhaps Taylan pursued her by phone, IM, and email, the whole time, asking for dates and arranging hook-ups. We don't know. Maybe she was fending him off the whole time she was there, and it was her who wanted the occasional hook-ups while he was gunning for more.

Surely you are aware that lonely people fall in love with others online. They are willing to send their life savings, get married, and do crazy things for what they imagine to be love. This love may not have followed the pattern you find typical. That doesn't mean it didn't happen.



All your speculation as to his feelings. I could just as easily speculate the opposite: Taylan pined for SS and the secrecy of their hook-ups only intoxicated him further. The more she tried to keep their relationship occasional, the more he read it as heating up into something enduring. After he kills her, when he hears from the husband, he definitely wants no part of the trouble. If he's so innocent, why didn't he act like a typical player Ammer and be cool and do what he could to help track this missing woman down? Instead he went into CYA mode as a guilty man would.



There's no indication of WHAT SS meant to him, period. The paltry evidence can easily be interpreted to suggest his guilt. Maybe she wanted to see him because the night before, they had sex, and she had been swayed by his romance and talked about building a life with him. The next morning, she realizes this is madness, and wants to see him because she had felt something for him and wants to let him down easily. See how easy it is?

There are multiple explanations of the evidence possible.

My feeling is that if he hasn't been cleared by DNA evidence, Taylan is candidate number one.

Only our imaginations can fill in the blanks. But we do know that SS tried to initiate the last meeting...not him.

"Can you come."

If your scenario is true,and she was being pestered by his unwanted attentions...that does not make sense. She would have been happy to get out and be alone, unbothered by him...not seeking to meet with him once again.

Again, we have no proof that they met any more than twice. That is not a hot and heavy romance. If after the bathroom sex, she wanted to break it off, she didn't need to meet him...just spend one more day alone and LEAVE. Send him the Instagram version of "its not you, its me." She would be thousands of miles away. That majes him no problem in her real life.

I no longer see anything romantic in this trip.We can fanatize it either way. But there is no proof that any of these "tour guides" were madly in love with SS. Nor she with them.

 

[ThinkHard]

There are some postings on this at the end of the 3rd thread, I asked the same question, I traveled to 60 plus countries and just call home for $1-2 a minute using my regular cell phone. I never have need to buy or rent a local cell phone. If for safety I use my regular phone. The most I have ever paid for cell phone is $5 a minute and that was in Russia and Antarctica. So yeah, US cell phones work everywhere I would say!

Only time I ever rented a cell phone was the company rented one for me once in Japan when I was there for business. But I would never rent it on my own. I would not be using it that much, and the few calls I make home I just suck it up and use my regular cell phone. The cost of renting one would not be worth it, unless I would do ALOT of texting. But why not just use wifi??

The only thing I would say is maybe her American phone was not set up international, it is not that hard to get set up, it is free, but certain carriers are not as good internationally, like verizon use to be not as good. Maybe she was wrongly under the impression her phone would not work,,,

It Was also hypothesized that the package she received was a Turkish cell phone in the mail. Not clear if that was the case.

First off, I can't think of any plausible reason you would have a Turkish cell phone sent to you in the mail, that makes no sense at all.

Everytime I travel to a country for over 2 weeks, I do buy a cell phone in that country. Mostly because you can buy a pay as you go phone very cheaply, and when you need more credits, you buy a card for a certain number of credits and add it on to your phone.

I know this is possible in Turkey, because I lived in Turkey specifically. It is also far cheaper to use a Turkish phone, then it is to use your American phone. Wifi is only available in turkey in cafes and some shops, Starbucks, stuff like that but often you have to ask for their pass code. It is not regularly available on the street. Additionally on an American cell phone regardless of whether you make or receive calls it eats up your minutes. However on a Turkish cell phone, your minutes are only used up when you make the call not when someone calls you.
Which is part of the reason it is cheaper and makes more sense.

However the biggest reason to buy not even rent (never heard of renting in turkey, and buying one is cheap enough, as low as 20 bucks) is to use it for local calling. Using your American phone for local calling would just add up, even texting would get crazy expensive. So I'm guessing if she had a Turkish phone, it was more about staying in contact with her Turkish friends, and tour guides. And also having a reliable way for family to get in touch with her in case of emergency.

She probably had her American phone roamin turned off, and only the wifi enables to reduce costs.

Also perhaps the reason she left the Turkish phone in her room that morning was because she had run out of credits, and on her last day, didn't see the point at buying more.

 

[ToutCa]

If your scenario is true,and she was being pestered by his unwanted attentions...

Read my scenario again -- the attentions may not have been unwanted. Perhaps she was content with an adventure, he kept pushing for more, she was touched and charmed and tempted by his romantic devotion. Perhaps they have sex the night of the 20th and she tells him she thinks she has feelings for him. The next day she realizes she needs to call this off, and feels it is only fair to do so face to face. "I want to see you"..."Can you come"...seem natural things a person might say in such a situation.

Again, we have no proof that they met any more than twice.

Actually, we have no proof they met at all. We have no proof of what happened during any of these alleged meetings. All we have so far is secondhand, unconfirmed accounts of their encounters from LE and Taylan's lawyers. And they are contradictory (LE: Taylan said bathroom sex...Lawyer: uhhh, well). The evidence is so flimsy we can imagine almost any scenario of what their relationship was like -- and no one is "right" or "wrong" in these imaginings.

there is no proof that any of these "tour guides" were madly in love with SS. Nor she with them.

We don't even know the identities of the other three Instagram/online Istanbul buddies Turkish LE is supposedly focusing on. We know nothing at all of her interactions with them. So I don't think we can conclude anything.

The cops hold all the cards right now. They're probably working the physical evidence to build a strong case against the perp -- as they should. Because we could go in circles forever on this vaporous "evidence".

COME ON TURKISH COPS WHAT DOES THE DNA SHOW DAMMMMIT???!!! Sigh...

 

[Munich]

Thank You for this post.

bbm, I thought that because I am not a world traveler that I was missing something with the (turkish phone). To me is was nothing more then her being sneaky (if true) why oh why would a first time traveler do this? It was/is the weirdest part of the story. I still call BS on the whole thing, it just stinks of lies. I do feel so sorry for the boys.

Police would be able to deduce who actually purchased the phone I would think, which will answer some questions. Perhaps one of her contacts gave her "an extra phone" to make contacting her easier. If so, she'd likely return it to that person, but we don't know of additional plans with Taylan (or some yet to be named person) and it's not as though she brought it along if that were the case.

The only person at this point we are aware of her meeting several times is Taylan, so if she received it from someone else it would appear there's more to the story. We can't forget besides her electronics and the crime scene there could have very well been more evidence amidst her things in that room. Information about what she did, receipts, tickets, numbers, that package, that Turkish phone... and if there's not, then she likely was covering her trail.

I hope this is part of the 95% police are still holding back.

 

[Munich]

First off, I can't think of any plausible reason you would have a Turkish cell phone sent to you in the mail, that makes no sense at all.

Everytime I travel to a country for over 2 weeks, I do buy a cell phone in that country. Mostly because you can buy a pay as you go phone very cheaply, and when you need more credits, you buy a card for a certain number of credits and add it on to your phone.

I know this is possible in Turkey, because I lived in Turkey specifically. It is also far cheaper to use a Turkish phone, then it is to use your American phone. Wifi is only available in turkey in cafes and some shops, Starbucks, stuff like that but often you have to ask for their pass code. It is not regularly available on the street. Additionally on an American cell phone regardless of whether you make or receive calls it eats up your minutes. However on a Turkish cell phone, your minutes are only used up when you make the call not when someone calls you.
Which is part of the reason it is cheaper and makes more sense.

However the biggest reason to buy not even rent (never heard of renting in turkey, and buying one is cheap enough, as low as 20 bucks) is to use it for local calling. Using your American phone for local calling would just add up, even texting would get crazy expensive. So I'm guessing if she had a Turkish phone, it was more about staying in contact with her Turkish friends, and tour guides. And also having a reliable way for family to get in touch with her in case of emergency.

She probably had her American phone roamin turned off, and only the wifi enables to reduce costs.

Also perhaps the reason she left the Turkish phone in her room that morning was because she had run out of credits, and on her last day, didn't see the point at buying more.

But, someone would have had to have informed her of this. I travel frequently and have NEVER bought a phone elsewhere. That's not to say people don't do it, but if she was totally inexperienced and this was her first abroad trip.

I think someone would have either had to accompany her to purchase it, bought it for her ahead of time, or at least given her the heads up on how to go about doing this. Especially coming from the US where cell phones are often with contracts and quite expensive.