GUILTY Turkey - Sarai Sierra, 33, NY woman murdered, Istanbul, 21 Jan 2013 - #4

[alpmighty]

BBM: What do you mean by atypical? Thanks!

Z family statements indicate they are middle class, probably lower middle class.

His family is saying he is unstable and naive. He held a proper job before, his brother even rented him an apartment in Istanbul but he quit and choose to be homeless.

Turkish nuclear family is tight. A 46 year old guy without anything would not be abandoned by his family to streets, to live the homeless life.

Z being homeless is by choice.

He does not appear to be a mentally healthy individual.

 

[delal]

Z being homeless is by choice.

He does not appear to be a mentally healthy individual.

Yes I agree, I was going to say he more than likely has mental health issues.

 

[alpmighty]

If you follow that logic, almost the whole of Turkey is in the East, relative to Istanbul/Izmir.

I'm glad the police seem to be following many leads but due to the media, it seems like they don't have a clue either way.

Precisely. Except for the contemporary Marmara and Mediterranean region, tribalistic social structures and extended family being closely in touch are extremely common.

 

[alpmighty]

So you're saying you think it's possible he was the one who did it because he's likely crazy. Makes sense.

Not at this point. Today's press reports are talking of somebody who had contact with SS on the Internet and last seen with her on surveillence footage on 20th.

However, there is nothing in today's reports that designate that Internet contact as Z.

Most likely seperate personalities, although if Z turns out to have maintained contact with SS on the Internet before, if who's detailed in today's reports is Z then my gut feeling says Z will turn out to be the perp.

I've tried to detail the common homeless / scavenger profile before. Z is very atypical of that profile. He is homeless by choice and is deemed naive and unstable by his family. I wouldn't be surprised if Z turns out to be computer or Internet literate. His family appears lower-middle class.

We'll see.

 

[NewYork625]

Not at this point. Today's press reports are talking of somebody who had contact with SS on the Internet and last seen with her on surveillence footage on 20th.

However, there is nothing in today's reports that designate that Internet contact as Z.

Most likely seperate personalities, although if Z turns out to have maintained contact with SS on the Internet before, if who's detailed in today's reports is Z then my gut feeling says Z will turn out to be the perp.

I've tried to detail the common homeless / scavenger profile before. Z is very atypical of that profile. He is homeless by choice and is deemed naive and unstable by his family. I wouldn't be surprised if Z turns out to be computer or Internet literate. His family appears lower-middle class.

We'll see.

I was half joking because I wish there was a simple answer as to who did it. Just when it looked like it was the homeless man, the mystery internet contact is thrown into the mix. I too doubt the homeless man had the wherewithal to be the internet contact.

 

[monkey222]

In an earlier report (sorry, I cant locate link now), there was postulation of SS meeting up with an inet contact in the area near where she was found, who had a boarding house of some sort. This would be a different person than her apt landlord. Wondering if this boarding house man is the one who LE is still trying to track down.

 

[Yashim]

This is so true...a distraction to deflect so that there will be less media attention to others involved.

I am not quite sure about this distraction scenario. It might be true. Anything's possible. But I can't recall any case that I came across where a Turkish law enforcement agency (of any level) used this method (distraction).

I also read it in the news that the DNA from the tissue underneath SS's fingernails matches Ziya's sibling's DNA. (I can't tell brother or sister from the text.)

http://www.medyafaresi.com/haber/98096/yasam-polis-sarai-sierra-cinayetini-cozdu-iste-sok-ayrintilar.html

 

[Yashim]

Would someone please translate this: http://www.memurlar.net/haber/338258/

I had a chance to look at the MS translation. Microsoft Translator really got carried away.

It translated Ziya as David. And his sister's name, Nazmiye, as Gabriella. :floorlaugh:

In case you read the MS translation and are wondering what's with David and Gabriella.

 

[Yashim]

''Its stupid they cant even sell it or use it"...interesting comment.

It's not just an interesting comment. It is a confession.

He so is the perp.

His brother said "Telefon kullanmaz, bir şey kullanmaz."

which means "He doesn't use telephone. He doesn't use anything"

Lavy didn't translate the last bit because it made little sense at that point and I wouldn't either. But now I think it's important.

What his brother wants to say is "He doesn't have a cell phone. He doesn't have anything (of that sort)." Meaning he doesn't possess any electronics devices.

So have can somebody, who is so "analog" knows that iPAD and US cell phone would be of no use (difficult to sell) in Turkey.

And he was with his family when he heard the news about SS on TV and commented that "this woman's an (secret) agent. Perhaps CIA. She must have been on a mission in Turkey." A pathetic attempt of self-justifying the crime he committed.

And now he's on his way to Hatay? (That is if his brother is telling the truth.)

He will either try to sell the electronics there or he will cross the border to Syria and disappear there. Or maybe both.

Plus his brother's DNA matches the DNA recovered from underneath SS's fingernails.

And also his brother said "He is not mentally stable". This also fits my theories.

Case solved. Almost.

Had SS's itinerary not thrown them off, LE would have solved the case much sooner.

 

[Yashim]

There was some talk quite awhile back relating to Sarai not having a purse or leaving it behind or something.

Can one of the Turkish speakers help me out here? Is this supposed to be a video of Sarai and does it give a location?
Jan. 20. Video a little after midnight??? Cam 15, 1-20-00:16:52

Some comments below the video seem to doubt it’s her. (Too fat, boot color, could be insignificant) But looks like she's in similar clothes as earlier that day in the mall.

I could be wrong, but she also doesn’t appear to have a purse/bag. Could she have maybe left the Ipad/bag somewhere else, IF it's her.

No location info in the footage. But I think it's Tarlabasi Avenue (or Tarlabasi Boulevard, whatever we call it). There is a part of the boulevard that you have to step down to the sidewalk. Must be near SS's apartment. That's why LE believed it might have been her.

But I don't think SS either. The lady is on the phone, I doubt SS used her phone. And, it's quite late.

Plus, SS looked much slimmer on the mall footage. The lady in the footage looks more like Fernando Botero's (chubby) Mona Lisa.

http://www.biografiasyvidas.com/reportaje/fernando_botero/fotos4.htm

 

[EncyclopediaBrown]

Sorry guys, I'm just trying to establish a timeline for her movements

Jan. 20th

1) Sarai is seen on mall video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=fvwp&v=KRVfjJ1Kai8&NR=1
9.59 am 1/20/2013 is marked on Sarai’s uploaded photo on her IG picture of winding stream (which A. says they took in Amersdam. (Not sure if I'm permitted to link to IG site, so I won't.)

2) While Ms. Sierra was in Turkey, she spoke with her sons via Skype. "The last time they spoke to her was on Jan. 20," he said. http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2013/02/how_husband_of_slain_staten_is.html

Does anyone recall if any 'specific', quotable' information was released about where she went dinner/club or anywhere else on this last night (Jan 20th) before her flight?

that staten island paper is rife with errors. that's the one i was saying has also reported her as staying with taylan k.

 

[lavy]

It's not just an interesting comment. It is a confession.

He so is the perp.

His brother said "Telefon kullanmaz, bir şey kullanmaz."

which means "He doesn't use telephone. He doesn't use anything"

Lavy didn't translate the last bit because it made little sense at that point and I wouldn't either. But now I think it's important.

What his brother wants to say is "He doesn't have a cell phone. He doesn't have anything (of that sort)." Meaning he doesn't possess any electronics devices.

So have can somebody, who is so "analog" knows that iPAD and US cell phone would be of no use (difficult to sell) in Turkey.

And he was with his family when he heard the news about SS on TV and commented that "this woman's an (secret) agent. Perhaps CIA. She must have been on a mission in Turkey." A pathetic attempt of self-justifying the crime he committed.

And now he's on his way to Hatay? (That is if his brother is telling the truth.)

He will either try to sell the electronics there or he will cross the border to Syria and disappear there. Or maybe both.

Plus his brother's DNA matches the DNA recovered from underneath SS's fingernails.

And also his brother said "He is not mentally stable". This also fits my theories.

Case solved. Almost.

Had SS's itinerary not thrown them off, LE would have solved the case much sooner.

True story. Thanks, I was rushing a bit when I was translating.

Also there is a huge difference in his sister's and brother's comments. I felt like his relationship this brother is not well, they are not seeing each other etc. (His brother says I heard he is going to Hatay.) Ziya is probably more close to his sister. She never says he is mentally unstable etc.

My opinion:

80% His sister is trying to protect him.

20% His brother is angry to him and exaggerating.

 

[citizenofworld]

It's not just an interesting comment. It is a confession.

He so is the perp.

His brother said "Telefon kullanmaz, bir şey kullanmaz."

which means "He doesn't use telephone. He doesn't use anything"

Lavy didn't translate the last bit because it made little sense at that point and I wouldn't either. But now I think it's important.

What his brother wants to say is "He doesn't have a cell phone. He doesn't have anything (of that sort)." Meaning he doesn't possess any electronics devices.

So have can somebody, who is so "analog" knows that iPAD and US cell phone would be of no use (difficult to sell) in Turkey.

And he was with his family when he heard the news about SS on TV and commented that "this woman's an (secret) agent. Perhaps CIA. She must have been on a mission in Turkey." A pathetic attempt of self-justifying the crime he committed.

And now he's on his way to Hatay? (That is if his brother is telling the truth.)

He will either try to sell the electronics there or he will cross the border to Syria and disappear there. Or maybe both.

Plus his brother's DNA matches the DNA recovered from underneath SS's fingernails.

And also his brother said "He is not mentally stable". This also fits my theories.

Case solved. Almost.

Had SS's itinerary not thrown them off, LE would have solved the case much sooner.

I don't know much about DNA testing, but if they just took the brother's DNA how would they have been able to match it in a day or two? Does anyone know? This report doesn't make sense to me - don't think it's possible.

 

[Yellow]

If true DNA from fingernails, it is likely him. His lawyer could argue he stole from corpse, that is what I am worried about and b/c there is this sexy story meeting these other foreign men, lawyer will say one of those did it, and this guy simply stole (or perhaps will say he stole her ipad, then she coincidentally got killed 20 minutes later by someone else).

If she did not meet up w strange men on Internet contacts there would likely not be this side story to tell. I just hope it does not create reasonable doubt letting the killer get away....hopefully not, the fingernail evidence is pretty compelling

I hope trial will not be of the victim. But if there is DNA match I suspect that will be lawyers strategy... Portray victim as loose women who had dealings w dozens of men, hoping it will create reasonable doubt

What is jury system in Turkey? Is it reasonable doubt standard? Is it unanimous verdicts or is it like 10 out of 12 as it is in some states here?

Is it true she was found in HIS cave? Or was it just a random cave?

 

[english]

I don't know much about DNA testing, but if they just took the brother's DNA how would they have been able to match it in a day or two? Does anyone know? This report doesn't make sense to me - don't think it's possible.

One report says that they have actual samples of dna (hair and skin samples) from the bed he slept in at his sister's house.

Apparently a machine has been developed which can match dna in 4 hours but I don't think it is yet in general use.

What has frustrated me about the interview with the brother and sister is that no-one appears to have asked if the suspect had any visible scratches or wounds.

 

[Elley Mae]

This is what I can't stop thinking about every time I enter this thread.


As well as being bludgeoned over the head, she had extensive trauma to her torso, her right hip area and bruises on her arms, suggesting a struggle.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ther-killed-Turkey-deepens.html#ixzz2Kydn2W59

It seems to me that it was a rage killing with all the trauma to her body unless the damage done was from her body being dragged to that location. I also wandered about this with her pants being somewhat pulled down, iirc. If she was dragged to that location by her arms and the terrain if (not smooth) maybe her pants were pulled down from dragging. idk

 

[Herat]

that staten island paper is rife with errors. that's the one i was saying has also reported her as staying with taylan k.

The cafeteria video shows her taking off a long scarf. It makes her ensemble: cap, leather jacket, green bag, scarf, jeans, wedge-heel boots look identical to the outfit she wears photographing in NYC.

The second video shows some other footage of the walls. The very very first part ( which is partially covered by an ad on my screen- it's a bit confusing because it initially looks like the scene is actually part of an ad) has investigators against a tall, intact brick wall behind a groove of thin trees, lighted by bright portable lights. A group of 6 or so investigators is looking at the ground. We haven't seen the crime scene with that large, fairly intact segment of wall. It doesn't look like what would be expected to be on the other side of "the cave". I wonder if it is the presumed site of the attack, 100m farther down the wall.

It also has a brief shot of a policeman in a cave-like area. You can't see much interior detail but it could be consistent with the interior of "the cave" and looks like a rough-surfaced hole or arch with an irregular wall. It is black-ish inside (? old campsite?) and looks a bit larger than I would have thought. If it wasn't used as a toilet area, it actually looks like a good place for vagrants to have camped in.

 

[Herat]

This is what I can't stop thinking about every time I enter this thread.

I also wandered about this with her pants being somewhat pulled down, iirc. If she was dragged to that location by her arms and the terrain if (not smooth) maybe her pants were pulled down from dragging. idk

I can envision that scene. I am confused as to exactly the status of the pants. I read one report that they were off of the body, but nearby. I read another that they were on the body, but pulled down. Other comments about the body being clothed in underwear and a shirt seem to support option #1.

If so, then her shoes had to be off when she was dragged. Why would her shoes have been off if she was walking along the wall in winter?

 

[CMac2]

True story. Thanks, I was rushing a bit when I was translating.

Also there is a huge difference in his sister's and brother's comments. I felt like his relationship this brother is not well, they are not seeing each other etc. (His brother says I heard he is going to Hatay.) Ziya is probably more close to his sister. She never says he is mentally unstable etc.

My opinion:

80% His sister is trying to protect him.

20% His brother is angry to him and exaggerating.

Yes, but truly, there is nothing more strange about the circumstances involving Ziya than there were about the circumstances involving Taylan. I am no longer convinced that Taylan is involved, but I don't think Ziya is either.

True, it does seem Ziya's behavior has been bizarre, but no more bizarre than Taylan's was when SS first went missing. He deleted his e-mail account, didn't immediately come forward to help look for his friend, etc, etc. True, not solid evidence of guilt, but not any less concerning than Ziya's behavior has been either.

I'm sorry, but the homeless theory still makes no sense to me as it relates to the (admittedly few) facts we know about this case. :twocents:

 

[Herat]

There was some talk quite awhile back relating to Sarai not having a purse or leaving it behind or something.

She is seen in Jan 20 cafeteria surveillance video carrying what looks like The Big Green Bag that was in the back of the police car removing her possessions from the apartment. It is the same Big Green Bag that she is seen carrying in her NYC photography sessions.

The surveillance of Jan 21 (the day she disappears) mentions her carrying a bag, but we have never seen those photos. The presumption is that the unknown bag was taken by the perp.

I'm one of those people that finds it a deviation from usual pattern to switch to a different bag on the last day you are out and about in town. Suggest she was planning a different activity than her usual.

Things that make you go Hmmmmmm