TX - 26 dead, 20 injured in church shooting, Sutherland Springs, 5 Nov 2017 #2

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves

New Posts

levity break !!

[video=youtube;ljmhqS8s8A8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljmhqS8s8A8[/video]
 
rsd1200 said:
Iirc, that day that we were at that house, one of us called the owner and LE talked to them and gave them an option of directly releasing the dog, or they'd file charges. They felt that was the quickest way to get the dog out of there. It was winter, no food, no water, and no shelter, patches of hair gone, and a rack of bones. I was honestly ticked at the neighbor b/c the dog did not get that way overnight, and then out there yelling at us. Our shelter has a skeleton crew but I have to give them credit, they work hard, and rarely ever have to euth, unless it's just for mercy.
Click to expand...

Just like I did with Rascal when I read about his dog from neighbors or something i was pissed

if i lived near him and I saw him leaving the dog tied up in the heat with no water when he left i would have taken the dog and bought it to a shelter

i went thro a little dream about it like well i would probably be afraid of him and would have to try and do it when no other neighbors could see me cause they would tell him I took the baby and then he was coming after me and he was scary in my dream

and stuff that is emerging at some level it is amazing that he had ( possibly there may be more hospitalizations in his history) he appears to have been out for periods of time

I remain surprised that the nature of the conflict with mil has not been more fleshed out??

rsd1200 said:
You are correct. There is no cure for a personality disorder. However, they can change themselves. If consequences of an action(s) become uncomfortable for them, they will change that behaviour(s). However, they may repeat that action, many times, (because they must), before the consequences become so uncomfortable for them that they change that behaviour(s). At least this is how it has been explained to me, in layman's terms. :sigh:
Click to expand...


On him I think we are talking about both Axis

He has too much IMO neurotransmitter stuff going on and in his instance that is primary moo

ted bundy, luka mag, Cunan different story !! moo

just mo but I think our society did not give Rodgers mental problems as it relates to causation enough merit

-- generally speaking in America it seems as the only type of "real" mental illness is only if one is screaming at clouds

- too much emphasis put on capacity to plan = ruling out mental

= imo mental illness does translate to a inability capacity to think -- its more about regulation type stuff (impulse/affect) that kinda dynamic moo

I think Omars mental problems (Axis 1) were not given enough reality. moo

The ft lauderdale airport shooter / the cascade mall guy I think mental was a lot more responsible than the media gave those situations
 
Oh it was horrible I retired in 05 but man the stuff I saw i am sure it much worse now days

a real sad part of this (there are only a few ) but there are thirty day injectables for some suffering with schizophrenia

its expensive but think about quality of life the overall costs related with repeated admits for 24-72 hrs

one injection every 30 days insurance won't cover it

what a waste -- both in terms of life and money but no

most of the stuff out there is garbage.

that too is sad

controversial yes -- but at least it something -- neurotransmitter testing

they kits you can now buy yourself

hey if your serotonin comes in low and your on a med that lowers serotonin ...........

IMO if one can afford it do it -- at least it gives a bit of direction

Docs don't endorse it quietly (In western countries), think -- if they could get closer to managing ones neurotransmitters visits could be spaced out

after my doc got me situated my reg doc prescribes -- i dont need to go in every 30 days be asked if i feel like killing myself or people and handed a Rx for $80

so many of the docs I worked with could care less -- its legal drug dealing IMO I did have the pleasure of working alongside some awesome ones also

i did it twice ,years ago, about 6 months apart one urine and one mouth and the results correlated

big pharm know most of them do little -- do we see endless commercials for a new kind of insulin?

Nope - cause it works

Big pharm is a racket imo --- and this was before they got allowed to advertise

you would not (I think its a lot better nowadays -- they are prohibited) believe the stuff drug reps would do

cater lunches -- a new med comes out and then they would pay for the doc and his family to go on vacation if they flipped enough pts over to the new one

and I was the one that lived the nightmares these people went thro while going thro med changes

and hey as a society we are paying for our societies indifference to mental illness

I think there are correlations on my end - career and not buying into god stuff -- i don't think people are "born" evil

its neurotransmitters and environmental imo

we still have not learned about the intensity of religion in his upbringing - I think it is going to be profound stuff in terms of his earlier years

jmo I think we are going to find a very bible thumping shame based family system as it relates to religion.

I think that a lot of that might have resulted in his profound and enduring mental problems being viewed as a choice as opposed to an illness

I keep getting like a lot of knife pulling on his family kinda stuff

i think he has been a scary person for a long long long time

I would like to know his meds history

jmo
 
neesaki said:
From what I understand, he shot DK at least once, maybe twice but the shots were not lethal, it was after that DK then shot himself.
Click to expand...

Stephen Wileford shot at DK multiple times.

Here is more detailed interview of what happened:
[video=youtube;B4HEchh0XD8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4HEchh0XD8&t=1761s[/video]

From my recollection:
-heard someone shooting, get AR15, grab some bullets, put them in mag, run barefoot to the scene;
-duck behind the hood of a car, observed the scene, saw a car near the church with engine running and with drivers door open, observed a person with a gun (pistol at that time, not AR) in tactical gear and swat mask with visor;
-shot one round from 20 yards hitting him between the bodyarmor plates (said it was not hard shot, had EOtech sights on and is an NRA instructor), exchanged fire with the shooter, shot one round also as the shooter was driving away and shattered the glass on the back of the car.
-flagged down a car and started the pursuit after the shooter, was calling the dispatch at the same time, they caught up with the shooter, the shooter ran into the ditch, they stayed at the scene with gun pointed on the shooters car (two bullets left), no movement in the car, (only sign of life was when DK yelled once - "Where is the police?") waited for the police, 5-7 minutes (seemed like an eternity).

Said also that he will probably have to get some counselling, everything was surreal. To me he looks like a really decent person, who will be scarred for the rest of his life by this event as will be the whole community.
 
Look, mental health issues like many other chronic diseases aren’t “cureable” but they can be manageable.
Personality disorders (yes, there are quite a few types) need specific types of therapy and medication.
 
human said:
I do not think violent video games are positive for any reason.

Why do you feel males in other countries are not shooting people all of the time? The same and even worse video games than in the US are available
Click to expand...

Females are not affected the same way? they play them too. I know that when I saw a violent graphic video game a nephew was playing I was absolutely appalled! I made him turn it off, much to the disgust of his father.
 
pamelado2 said:
Access to guns

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/world/mass-shootings/?utm_term=.ae88ab7c9732

The US has at least TRIPLE the amount of guns per person as every other country in the world.

"As of 2015, there are*more guns than people*in the U.S. This rate is far higher than other developed nations, according to the Australian research site*gunpolicy.org"

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Guns really do not decide by themselves to shoot people.
Even with smart technology.
No matter how much one wants that to happen..
I'm staring at my vacuum cleaner right now, willing it to vacuum.
It won't happen, sadly.
 
2Hope4 said:
There isn't a ICD10 for pure evil, but I'm with other posters that believe it is evil in some people. I believe in mental illnesses, and have had a range of different diagnosis in people that I'm close with. Sadly, in every single case that I'm aware of, the help needed is severely lacking. Like three different times in two different emergencies rooms, I've been with someone having an anxiety attack, with hyperventilation and the person unresponsive to commands. Each time the patient was put in an area with lots of people, THE HALLWAY!, to 'shame them' into stopping the attack. Naturally that only makes the attack worse, but neither hospital would listen and I did file a grievence but to my knowledge nothing was done. They refused to give a STAT dose of Ativan, or Valium to stop the attack, they refused to prescribe anything at all. Sooo tonight, I've spent the last 5 hrs with another person, not going to the darn hospital, and within the last hour, they finally went to sleep after exhaustion from the anxiety attack. This should NOT be the way!

Google patient shot in Lynchburg VA emergency room....same place I've dealt with. Person was in a crisis, parent brought them in, I think it was 7hrs later, STILL in the ER, patient became combative, tried to remove security officers taser, and was shot. The man is now paralyzed for life, and of course all the physical illnesses have now compounded his mental ones....

THIS are of health we need lots more funding, and a major overhaul! I don't know if it's lack of knowledge, lack of compassion, feeling those of us with mental health needs are lesser than in society, or what the heck is wrong...but it is.

The person today? Had been without their meds for almost 3 days, and yet, was at the darn doc office TODAY, and the office was going to call in their scripts instead of handing them a written script. The scripts weren't called in. The person went to the office today, missing work, because the script was suppose to have been called in Tues, wasn't, and then yesterday they called and complained and was told the script would be faxed over, it wasn't. So I ended up having to call the on call doctor, explaining that the meds missed were not meds that should be abruptly stopped and the condition the patient was in. Thankfully she called in the scripts to another pharmacy that was still open, and I picked them up Completely could have been avoided...
Click to expand...
Thank you for advocating for this person.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
 
pamelado2 said:
Access to guns

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/world/mass-shootings/?utm_term=.ae88ab7c9732

The US has at least TRIPLE the amount of guns per person as every other country in the world.

"As of 2015, there are*more guns than people*in the U.S. This rate is far higher than other developed nations, according to the Australian research site*gunpolicy.org"

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Yes, I agree. Keeping in mind that the US population is 10x greater than Canada, we have DKs here as well. It's just that the culture is much different. In the US guns are indeed very prevalent and it's recognized as a superpower with an active army, involving common topics of war, guns, shooting, killing. In Canada we like to think of ourselves as Peacekeepers (and hope the US will save our butt, if need be..)

From my perspective, a DK in Canada likely wouldn't have joined the AirForce. Instead he'd become involved with street drugs at an early age that'd make him feel "normal", then comes stealing cars or committing robberies to feed his addiction, joining a gang or possibly becoming radicalized and travelling to Syria. Here, mostly its only criminals who have guns.

His family would have the opportunity to cut all ties without fear of him living on the street as a whole host of support programs to sustain his lifestyle are available including homeless shelters, foodbanks, safe needle and safe injection sites. He wouldn't be a weird or desparate outcast within that circle - he'd fit right in. Eventually he'd probably spend short stints in jail where he'd meet up with even more of his type and over time his drug addiction would take over his life. Chances are, he would die from an overdose or receive of life sentence for a murder caused by stabbing an acquaintance who he perceived had wronged him.

If DK had lived in a larger urban centre in the US, his path might have been similar.

JMO
 
margarita25 said:
I've got an angle I've been thinking about for a while which requires more research on my part.

What percentage of the last 20 mass shooters were in their 20s (and early 30s)? I know that the Vegas Shooter and the Planned Parenthood shooter were older, but it seems many of these guys are in their 20s?

(Eta: not necessarily....)
Click to expand...
Everytown or the Brady Foundation may have those statistics online for you.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
 
thefragile7393 said:
That’s what I said earlier and all the signs are there that this is what he was, even without a formal assessment. Look up anti social personality disorder in the DSM V and it will list much of what is known about him. Stating this is likely the case or “labeling” won’t shut down discussion. IMO he was what he was and stating he likely was a psychopath changes nothing but at least gives a starting point into trying understand the how’s and why’s this happened. In order to do that you have to understand their unique reasoning. That’s my take anyway
Click to expand...

If, he had Anti Social Personality Disorder, then it's a good bet, imo, that he had Conduct Disorder as a child (not good) and as he reached adulthood it blossomed into ASPD. If he had Conduct Disorder as a child his parents were likely stressed to the max during his youth. I'm not saying he had either of these things, only if, he had them.
 
HMSHood said:
Four allegations of sexual abuse, harassment made against Sutherland Springs gunman
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/lo...-of-sexual-abuse-harassment-made-12338750.php

'He harassed me any time I was in school'

Another woman, choosing to go by her middle name Alexandra, told mySA.com, Kelley shoved and groped her in the halls at New Braunfels High School during her 2008-2009 freshman year. He would make lewd comments toward her, and "slapped" her buttocks at least once, Alexandra said.

Alexandra's mother, Gail F., said her daughter disclosed the harassment to her in 2008 and they reported it to the high school.

"He harassed me any time I was in school," Alexandra said. "I reported what I could to the school, but nothing was ever done."

NBISD Director of Communications Rebecca Villarreal said she had no way of confirming Alexandra's claim. The alleged harassment occurred under a previous administrator and no report appears in school records provided by the district by mySA.

Under stress from a constant barrage of comments and unwanted touches, Alexandra said she began to suffer from memory loss. Alexandra left the school in spring 2010.

A discipline report obtained by mySA.com from NBISD shows Kelley was put in out-of-school suspension six times between 2004 and 2009 for various offenses including, horse play, possession/sale of drugs, profane language and insubordination.

Kelley graduated from New Braunfels High School in 2009 and began service in the U.S. Air Force on Jan. 5, 2010, according to records.

Devin Kelley clearly has behavioral problems. He is a clear cut bully. That is not surprising. Omar Mateen and Eric Harris had history of bullying.

Bullying is likely a factor as they can have history of violence.
Click to expand...
So he got suspended for horseplay, but not groping a girl.

Again, I say that crimes against women are not taken seriously enough.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
 
human said:
Read about what has been done and still continues to be done to Native Americans, Read about slavery in the US. Read about Papua New Guiana today. Read about the humanitarian crisis in Puerto Rico right now.

Were the men who raped their slaves such as Thomas Jefferson evil?
Click to expand...

Good morning dear Human,

That is exactly my point. Cultural and religious atrocities.

In this particular case, in my opinion, these do not apply.

In this case, there is a certain type of "evil" involved when a person of the same culture and same religion (even though he turned atheist) kills babies and children and women he knows.

From everything I have learned about him, I believe he was born with an "evil bent". Some person just are. This is my opinion only.

You know I have always had the greatest respect for your posts, Human, and I always will.

We may disagree on this case but I will always think you are amazing. Your compassion is steadfast and I admire you so much.




I posted (earlier):


"How many of the hundreds of thousands would enter a church and kill babies and children? Only those who have always had an "evil bent".

"The only exception I have found to this have been religous and cultural genocide attacks on populations of women, babies and children. I'm not saying these are not "evil" acts because they are atrocious and against any form of humanity we feel. "
 
CARIIS said:
Oh it was horrible I retired in 05 but man the stuff I saw i am sure it much worse now days

a real sad part of this (there are only a few ) but there are thirty day injectables for some suffering with schizophrenia

its expensive but think about quality of life the overall costs related with repeated admits for 24-72 hrs

one injection every 30 days insurance won't cover it

what a waste -- both in terms of life and money but no

most of the stuff out there is garbage.

that too is sad

controversial yes -- but at least it something -- neurotransmitter testing

they kits you can now buy yourself

hey if your serotonin comes in low and your on a med that lowers serotonin ...........

IMO if one can afford it do it -- at least it gives a bit of direction

Docs don't endorse it quietly (In western countries), think -- if they could get closer to managing ones neurotransmitters visits could be spaced out

after my doc got me situated my reg doc prescribes -- i dont need to go in every 30 days be asked if i feel like killing myself or people and handed a Rx for $80

so many of the docs I worked with could care less -- its legal drug dealing IMO I did have the pleasure of working alongside some awesome ones also

i did it twice ,years ago, about 6 months apart one urine and one mouth and the results correlated

big pharm know most of them do little -- do we see endless commercials for a new kind of insulin?

Nope - cause it works

Big pharm is a racket imo --- and this was before they got allowed to advertise

you would not (I think its a lot better nowadays -- they are prohibited) believe the stuff drug reps would do

cater lunches -- a new med comes out and then they would pay for the doc and his family to go on vacation if they flipped enough pts over to the new one

and I was the one that lived the nightmares these people went thro while going thro med changes

and hey as a society we are paying for our societies indifference to mental illness

I think there are correlations on my end - career and not buying into god stuff -- i don't think people are "born" evil

its neurotransmitters and environmental imo

we still have not learned about the intensity of religion in his upbringing - I think it is going to be profound stuff in terms of his earlier years

jmo I think we are going to find a very bible thumping shame based family system as it relates to religion.

I think that a lot of that might have resulted in his profound and enduring mental problems being viewed as a choice as opposed to an illness

I keep getting like a lot of knife pulling on his family kinda stuff

i think he has been a scary person for a long long long time

I would like to know his meds history

jmo
Click to expand...
I have not heard of this neurotransmitter test. I have heard of the DNA testing to find what meds are more likely to work and which ones may make it worse. But for some reason it's being poo-pooed a lot in articles because we don't have enough evidence yet that it works - but we do have anecdotal evidence. Well, if insurance paid for the darn test, we'd find out more, and it would be cost effective because it could avoid inpatient treatment and hospital trips when the meds go very wrong. Saves the patient years of 6 month experiments on this and that psych med.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
 
bluesneakers said:
Not just with medications - always therapy in conjunction, but specific symptoms of certain disorders can be treated with medications.
Click to expand...

I have to respectfully disagree. My child, and our family, have lived with his diagnoses (more than one) for over 25 years now. Yes, they could treat depression, yes they can treat anxiety, but those are not the personality disorder that he has. Doc told us that the only thing that we could do was hope that it didn't turn into Anti Social Personality Disorder (and I think the shooter did have this) and that w/my child's personality disorder, he'd only learn from repeating the same negative behaviour, over and over and over, and by receiving negative consequences, over and over and over. If those consequence become unpleasant enough for him and he no longer wanted to tolerate them, he'd stop the behaviour, but it didn't mean that he'd stop all of them. Sameness was very important to mine as a child. As an adult, he still does not do well with a change, especially a sudden change. His biggest problem is rules. I explain it this way to folks, when I have to, If there's a stop sign, the rest of us would obey the stop sign, it says stop, so we must stop. My child would see the stop sign, and he reads it as, I must go. No amount of drugs will stop that. It is an act of defiance, that is built into his wiring. He and I have talked about it and he doesn't even understand it. Yes, if he gets depressed, or has anxiety, there's meds for that, but lots of folks have depression and anxiety and they don't have personality disorders. He's still got the personality he has. He is not violent though, and ultimately has a good heart, he just is who he is. It's the personality he was born with, just like some people have the extreme opposite of the spectrum, and have those super, over the top, bubbly, happy, personalities, but, at least their personalities don't usually cause them to get arrested.
 
I really am wondering why we are not seeing females reacting this way after watching violent video games. The only thing that comes to mind in the one where they were reenacting the Skinny Man (????). Don't know if that was movie or game. Or maybe.....I too have become desensitized and just don't remember. I'm embarrassed to say Sandy Hook was mentioned the other day and my first thought was of a bad storm. It literally slammed me when I switched thoughts. HOW COULD I HAVE FORGOTTEN!!!!!!!! So ashamed!
......
 
The neurotransmitter illnesses are not mutually exclusive . Often an individual suffers with both.

AS it sounds most folks do fall into duel diagnosis situtions.

there are basically two "lines (Axis) we diagnose on.

Axis one is basically the neurotranmitter stuff. Boloar, Schizophrenia, Dpression to name a couple

on Axis two are the personalitiy disorders. Basically they are sperated because gnerally speaking the personality disorders (by there very nature) are not considered treatable - in the context of the way medical views treatable.

They are persuavive , for most of the time stable over time and are maladaptive ways of intereacting with the world , and people.

DSM-5 lists ten personality disorders, and allocates each to one of three groups or ‘clusters’: A, B, or C
Cluster A (Odd, bizarre, eccentric)
Paranoid PD, Schizoid PD, Schizotypal PD
Cluster B (Dramatic, erratic)
Antisocial PD, Borderline PD, Histrionic PD, Narcissistic PD
Cluster C (Anxious, fearful)
Avoidant PD, Dependent PD, Obsessive-compulsive PD

personality disorder can be diagnosed if there are significant impairments in self and interpersonal functioning together with one or more pathological personality traits. In addition, these features must be (1) relatively stable across time and consistent across situations, (2) not better understood as normative for the individual’s developmental stage or socio-cultural environment, and (3) not solely due to the direct effects of a substance or general medical condition. they are more the product of historical observation than of scientific study, and thus that they are rather vague and imprecise constructs. As a result, they rarely present in their classic ‘textbook’ form, but instead tend to blur into one another. Their division into three clusters in DSM-5 is intended to reflect this tendency, with any given personality disorder most likely to blur with other personality disorders within its cluster.

In terms of media they blur terms- especially in these types of situations. Psychopath, Sociopath are the precursers to what is now known as Antisocial Personality Disorder.

No One is diagnosed as either of them any longer. There old terms for similar characteristics.

The majority of people with a personality disorder never come into contact with mental healthhealth services

Accurate diagnosis in mental health
is far more difficult than medical, typically.

It depends on how they present in the minute they are with you. That can be markedly different than what they were experiencing yesterday or tomorrow. Or next week.

You also often getting info from folks that are the describing the individual. That can have a total subjective world view those reports.

In addition the system demands that one diagnosis in the first visit.

Medical does not make a diagnosis until they have some impressions!

They can be modified over time of course, but often the more acute the likelihood of them attending regularly and consistently drops with acuity.

So in essence an individual that has a long psyc history "comes with" an historic myriad of previous diagnosis -- blurring the pool!!

Media does this often -- I remember they did it with the cascade mall guy. They report it like it was all past diagnosis , when in reality in all likelihood the diagnosis were actually the psyc history , over time, determined by what was observed at the time of eval .

In the media he was a walking DSM-5--the bible of the field!!

Some of them are actually precursors or "developing" with the passage of time and age.

Conduct disorders are typically applied to what in reality is a budding anti social personality disordered individual. Kinda like a movie teaser.

Just making it up - it would look like

Axis 1 : Major Depression (which otten is bipolar presenting at the time in the depressed stage of bipolar. ) This often sets off a cascade of problems for the poor pt.

A lot of the meds for uni polar depression (major depression) totally exacerbate symptoms that are actually bipolar disorder. (there are many flavors of bipolar)

Through the pts history a lot of the side effects can be documented as symptoms as opposed to the side effect profile.

Things get worse. The side effect profiles for a bipolar individual being treated for uni polar depression (major depression) can be hideous.

Which then results in medication no compliance . The hurricane is intensifying. Now you have a person that is actually suffering with bipolar, having side effects from the major depression cluster of meds - blurring everything more and more.

Understandably the individual that has been going through this hell for years - becomes less than enchanted with medications! So medication non compliance increases through time.

So basically you end up with presenting clinical impressions, history which can be muddled up by actually being a side effect of meds, varying reports from others around the person (which can also be scooped up in the side effects ) when being described by another person.

Put on an British accent: Quite frankly darling tis quite a mess!

I am sure this man will be emerge with a long history of varying diagnoses - which in essence in really incorrect diagnosis in the past.

As time passed i started using (generally speaking) promiscuity as being very helpful in in diagnosis IMO, between major depression and an individual in the depressed phase of what is actually bipolar.

In most instances folks suffering with uni polar /major depression do not have the energy or want to be wildly promiscuous! Takes energy!

But the bipolar in the manic phase can often be promiscuous. Money stuff was helpful as well. An individual with major depression is rarely in the mood to go shopping!

Shopping is fun fun fun when manic!!!

OCD and anxiety can blur at times as well!

Same with schizophrenia -- there are many flavors of it !

It all is actually a lot like ice cream. Ice cream IS ice cream - but the flavors are widely different!

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/hide-and-seek/201205/the-10-personality-disorders





 
You must log in or register to reply here.

DNASolves

Who is DeKalb County John Doe (2022)?

Members online

... and 128 more.
Total: 2,539 (members: 129, guests: 2,410)

Online statistics

Members online
129
Guests online
2,410
Total visitors
2,539
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
602,593
Messages
18,143,399
Members
231,454
Latest member
ColeTyler
Back
Top