TX - Active shooter at Allen Shopping Mall, multiple victims, 6 May 2023

[Ontario Mom]

Yes, even then. Criminality is not mental illness. Someone can be a homicidal maniac and not be mentally ill. We can't fix evil.

All doctors have a duty to warn. That means that if someone comes into my office and specifically says I'm going to kill my neighbor Larry, I have to call the police and/or warn Larry that this guy wants to kill him. But that doesn't mean the patient is mentally ill. It could mean he's just a criminal. Commitment laws say right in the text that the behavior has to be the direct result of a mental illness. Otherwise, you can't commit.

I just wanted to say, your posts here on this subject have been incredibly helpful to me, to see this issue from another perspective. I think we all know there is no simple fix and no simple answers, and your insight has helped to explain at least in part, why that's the case. So, thank you for sharing your thoughts here.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I just wanted to say, your posts here on this subject have been incredibly helpful to me, to see this issue from another perspective. I think we all know there is no simple fix and no simple answers, and your insight has helped to explain at least in part, why that's the case. So, thank you for sharing your thoughts here.

Thank you very much. I really appreciate these kind words.

 

[Jade]

From the footage, it looks like two vehicles had a chance to drive into the shooter as he exited his vehicle. Especially the black truck. I am surprised that neither driver tried.

Video shows Texas mall shooter get out of car, open fire on shoppers

A person, dressed in all black, steps out from the driver’s seat with a gun and immediately begins shooting at people outside of the shops from behind the car door, video shows.

nypost.com

I can’t stop thinking about this post.

I reckon not many of us have it in us to attack a shooter.

Officers train and train more in post certification. Many are former military. They’re ready.

Because of your post if I’m ever in that situation I’ll have the notion in my head I’ll run him down with my car!

I’m not sure I would have thought about that since I avoid even hitting a butterfly fluttering into the roadway.


all imo

 

[Knitty]

MOD NOTE:

Stay on topic, folks. THIS case, THESE victims, THIS murderer.

Political commentary isn't allowed here and only causes arguments and derails the thread.

General gun discussion has never been allowed in case threads - we'll never solve that problem in a case thread - but there is a general gun discussion thread at:

General Gun Violence/Gun Control

Hi All, Tricia has asked us to open up a discussion about gun violence, as clearly, there is a problem with gun violence, especially in the United States. In many of the cases that come to Websleuths, gun violence is the cause, and we don't/can't allow general gun violence/control discussion...

www.websleuths.com

Please keep discussion here related to this case.

Thanks,

Knitty

 

[happyday]

I just wanted to say, your posts here on this subject have been incredibly helpful to me, to see this issue from another perspective. I think we all know there is no simple fix and no simple answers, and your insight has helped to explain at least in part, why that's the case. So, thank you for sharing your thoughts here.

Same here, @BeginnerSleuther! Thank you for your posts.

 

[PrairieWind]

Here's the DOD's requirements for military. The military also requires all medical records to be submitted. The media continues to report the shooter failed his mental health evaluation and that's why he was booted out. At that point, he should have been reported to the FBI database. That shouldn't have to be law, it should be common sense.

https://www.esd.whs.mil/Portals/54/Documents/DD/issuances/dodi/613003_vol1.PDF?ver=7fhqacc0jGX_R9_1iexudA%3D%3D

How many more settlements is the DOJ going to have to make because government agencies keep screwing up? If it isn't required now, I would think a simple phone call between AG Garland and the Dept. of Defense would be sufficient.

JMO

--$144.5 million for 2017 mass shooting at a church in Sutherland Springs, Tx because Air Force didn't notify FBI of violent history: US reaches $144.5 million settlement with Texas church shooting victims.

--$130 million for the 2018 mass shooting at Parkland FL high school because FBI didn't act on tips that poured into its tipline: U.S. to pay $130 million to resolve claims over 2018 Parkland school shooting

--$88 million for the 2015 mass shooting at a Charleston Church because FBI negligence allowed shooter to buy a gun.

https://www.npr.org/2021/10/28/1050035997/charleston-church-shooting-doj-settlement-families

I have seen nothing reported that says he actually failed a mental health exam or for what. I have seen that he was terminated for mental health reasons. That could be anything from immaturity to who knows what. But the DOD can't just report confidential medical records to the FBI without authorization. That is why I am saying there needs to be some legislation in this area if you want records reported. Medical records can't just be handed around because someone thinks something is off.

The lawsuits you mention are because the government wasn't enforcing the laws already on the books. The Sutherland shooting was after the shooter had been court-martialed for domestic violence (which prohibits ownership or possession of firearms) but they never uploaded that information to the database like they were supposed to. We have lots of laws on the books right now. some need stiffer penalties. But they have to be enforced to do any good.

 

[Balthazar]

More details about the shooter's beliefs:

https://www.npr.org/2023/05/08/1174885273/allen-texas-shooting-what-we-know-victims-far-right-gunman

Keep in mind that ALL of his posts were made publicly. The FBI is supposed to be surveilling public posts for stuff like this in order to prevent mass shootings. The shooter didn't try to hide his thoughts and emotions and openly posted his plans. :

"Garcia self-identified in some posts as an “incel,” a term the Anti-Defamation League defines as “heterosexual men who blame women and society for their lack of romantic success.” Some posts were sexist and expressed anger toward women.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/16/us/incel-involuntary-celibate-explained-cec/index.html
Another post expressed anger toward family members who “mocked any attempt I made to be masculine…” and “told me I was disturbed…” Another post described people making jokes or awkward comments about the poster’s likelihood of committing mass murder."


"Garcia graduated from Bryan Adams High School in east Dallas in 2008, the Dallas Independent School District said.

He entered the Army in June of that year but was not given a specific job, called a military occupational specialty, Army spokesperson Heather Hagan told CNN. He was terminated after three months and did not complete basic training, Hagan said.

The gunman was removed due to concerns about his mental health, a law enforcement source familiar with the investigation told CNN."

https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/08/us/mauricio-garcia-allen-texas-shooting/index.html

 

[louvillian08]

I'm citing my opinion the military has an obligation to report mental instability to the FBI database. Absolutely. That's just common sense. That database has proved very effective. Since launching in 1998, more than 300 million checks have been done, leading to more than 1.5 million denials.

My concern is public safety and the innocent lives slaughtered at a shopping mall. Nutjob extremists like the Allen shooter in this case should have had no access to firearms. If he was unfit to carry an assault weapon in the military, he was unfit to buy it EVER.

JMO

Right but if you read through that document, there are a ton of mental health related reasons why someone could be disqualified from serving that overwhelming would never be red flags for anything else. It lists the following as disqualifying conditions: ADHD, OCD, insomnia, eating disorders, dyslexia, communication disorders, etc.

It's a stretch for the military, or anyone, to give such a broad assessment of mental health and then interpret the results to mean someone is mentally unstable. He didn't even make it through basic training so we have know way of knowing how extensive the mental health testing was or what possibly disqualified him.

 

[Jade]

.

 

[EmiliaRT007]

MOD NOTE:

Stay on topic, folks. THIS case, THESE victims, THIS murderer.

Political commentary isn't allowed here and only causes arguments and derails the thread.

General gun discussion has never been allowed in case threads - we'll never solve that problem in a case thread - but there is a general gun discussion thread at:

General Gun Violence/Gun Control

Hi All, Tricia has asked us to open up a discussion about gun violence, as clearly, there is a problem with gun violence, especially in the United States. In many of the cases that come to Websleuths, gun violence is the cause, and we don't/can't allow general gun violence/control discussion...

www.websleuths.com

Please keep discussion here related to this case.

Thanks,

Knitty

Thanks, sorry.

 

[Jade]

I wonder if he was seeking a discharge or hoping for help:


Garcia said he once admitted his thoughts about his mental health to a military commander.

Warrant reveals what mall shooter Mauricio Garcia had in car, motel room



Interesting information and advice on this link:
Other Designated Physical and Mental Conditions Discharge: Fact Sheet ❮ Resources ❮ GI Rights Hotline: Military Discharges and Military Counseling


all imo

 

[EmiliaRT007]

I wonder if he was seeking a discharge or hoping for help:


Garcia said he once admitted his thoughts about his mental health to a military commander.

Warrant reveals what mall shooter Mauricio Garcia had in car, motel room



Interesting information and advice on this link:
Other Designated Physical and Mental Conditions Discharge: Fact Sheet ❮ Resources ❮ GI Rights Hotline: Military Discharges and Military Counseling


all imo

While I, being someone who’s struggled with mental health from early on, to the point where I attempted to hang myself at age ten due to bullying, and being diagnosed with multiple mental illnesses, believe that mental illnesses and mental health issues are not an excuse for any crime whatsoever, I do agree with you.

I do think that he needs some serious, serious therapy and mental help. He may be struggling but he is dangerous. Makes me wonder what he actually had since many mental conditions can disqualify you from serving. I wanted to serve when I turned 18 but I have ADHD, OCD, autism, insomnia, and dyslexia, all of which are disqualifying conditions. Thanks for the link. He really does need some serious help.

 

[Dotta]

Warrant reveals what mall shooter Mauricio Garcia had in car, motel room

Authorities investigating the Texas mass shooting recovered several firearms inside gunman Mauricio’s vehicle — as well as three boxes of ammunition, a tactical vest, a holstered knife and a …

nypost.com

Texas mall mass shooter Mauricio Garcia bought AR-15, other weapons legally: report

 

[MyBelle]

Right but if you read through that document, there are a ton of mental health related reasons why someone could be disqualified from serving that overwhelming would never be red flags for anything else. It lists the following as disqualifying conditions: ADHD, OCD, insomnia, eating disorders, dyslexia, communication disorders, etc.

It's a stretch for the military, or anyone, to give such a broad assessment of mental health and then interpret the results to mean someone is mentally unstable. He didn't even make it through basic training so we have know way of knowing how extensive the mental health testing was or what possibly disqualified him.

BBM. I think the fact that he chose to slaughter strangers with an assault rifle is proof the shooter was too mentally disturbed to serve in the military.

JMO

 

[Stunned]

BBM. I think the fact that he chose to slaughter strangers with an assault rifle is proof the shooter was too mentally disturbed to serve in the military.

JMO

Kinda answers that question once and for all!

 

[x_files]

IMO we are not at a standstill, if people actually knew the difference between a weapon made for soldiers and one made for home protection- I think we would all agree to limit AR-15s to regulated people, for use in regulated situations, with regulated ammo.
It would be tough, the gathering and closing of all that escaped a Pandora’s box that should never have been opened, IMO.
I believe in the American spirit, dream, the people who came to find freedom, the pioneers that braved untold tragedies. I believe in the resiliency and eternal wisdom of The US Constitution, as created by our imperfect but thoughtful forefathers.
From that place, I am truly disappointed to find myself here, in this time where mass shootings of strangers in open spaces is common. WTF!!
We are an open society, and there will always be a cost and also a benefit.
I don’t care if you are Red or Blue, or Purple, I am a proud American and refuse to believe we are not capable of finding the common ground that is long overdue.
We must demand it!!
JMO

The politicians however right now are at a standstill.

But I agree with you.
I am not anti-gun and own a handgun myself, but I do not think the average citizen needs an AR-15.
It's illegal for the average American citizen to own a submachine gun.
I like your spirit!
Sorry, it's almost impossible to discuss this case without mentioning guns.

There's no real way to prevent mass shootings because we cannot legally force anyone to seek mental health help after 18.
It's not illegal to be in a hate group or post violent threats on social media.
So we just wait until the individual commits a crime and pray to God he or she is stopped before it progresses to a mass shooting.
I wonder how other countries prevent mass shootings.

 

[x_files]

"Texas gunman staked out massacre mall to monitor peak times three weeks before killing eight and posted details on Russian social media alongside photos of Nazis, guns and ammunition.​

• Mauricio Garcia posted about his hatred for women, Jews and black people "

Texas gunman staked out mall to track peak times weeks before shooting

Texas mall gunman Mauricio Garcia (left) reportedly scoped out the scene of his crime to track when it would be busiest three weeks before he shot dead eight people in a senseless bloodbath.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I wonder if anyone reported his posts to FB? and if they took any action.
My posts are censored for calling someone a dum-dum (silly friendly teasing), not sure how his posts got past the FB censor.
That is yet another mystery!

 

[x_files]

I'm citing my opinion the military has an obligation to report mental instability to the FBI database. Absolutely. That's just common sense. That database has proved very effective. Since launching in 1998, more than 300 million checks have been done, leading to more than 1.5 million denials.

My concern is public safety and the innocent lives slaughtered at a shopping mall. Nutjob extremists like the Allen shooter in this case should have had no access to firearms. If he was unfit to carry an assault weapon in the military, he was unfit to buy it EVER.

JMO

YES! My feelings exactly!

 

[Stunned]

I wonder if anyone reported his posts to FB? and if they took any action.
My posts are censored for calling someone a dum-dum (silly friendly teasing), not sure how his posts got past the FB censor.
That is yet another mystery!

I don’t think they were on FB.

 

[x_files]

I wonder if he was seeking a discharge or hoping for help:


Garcia said he once admitted his thoughts about his mental health to a military commander.

Warrant reveals what mall shooter Mauricio Garcia had in car, motel room



Interesting information and advice on this link:
Other Designated Physical and Mental Conditions Discharge: Fact Sheet ❮ Resources ❮ GI Rights Hotline: Military Discharges and Military Counseling


all imo

If he was seeking mental health help they failed.
Does anyone know if the Army has resources for mental health?