Found Deceased TX - Alan White, 55, seen leaving LA Fitness, Dallas, 22 Oct 2020 #2

[MoeInVA]

I could totally be on board a car jacking theory IF AW had been found.

But if we consider the car jacking theory as valid, then let’s imagine what that scenario would look like:

The bad guys shoot AW and take the car.

Soooo...why don’t we know where AW is? Why would carjackers care one bit about making sure AW isn’t found?

I believe in Occam’s Razor but the pieces just aren’t fitting with what should be the likeliest scenarios.

Good question- if random crime/carjacking, why was AW not found?
All just theories follow...
One person upthread theorized AW was tossed over a certain bridge. Others pointed out the landfill.

Why would a criminal hide his body?

• In hopes of getting value out of the car before it became too hot.
• Concerns they could be tied to crime by ballistics, dna on clothes or body or surveillance video.
• They want to keep their gun but if body was found, the gun would have to be tossed.

There is another theory that fits here (body not found, the quiet and the lack of vigils etc). Despite AW’s seemingly wonderful life and protestations by his loved ones, it is possible he took his own life and did not wish for his body to be found. (Perhaps to avoid causing his family pain).

Personally, I think a random crime/carjacking is most likely and that is why this new detective with gang knowledge was assigned. To me, suicide is the 2nd most likely scenario. It’s a much more simple explanation than the theories that he purposefully met up with someone and was killed in my opinion.

JMO poor Alan and his loved ones.

 

[Curiousobserver]

Good question- if random crime/carjacking, why was AW not found?
All just theories follow...
One person upthread theorized AW was tossed over a certain bridge. Others pointed out the landfill.

Why would a criminal hide his body?

• In hopes of getting value out of the car before it became too hot.
• Concerns they could be tied to crime by ballistics, dna on clothes or body or surveillance video.
• They want to keep their gun but if body was found, the gun would have to be tossed.

There is another theory that fits here (body not found, the quiet and the lack of vigils etc). Despite AW’s seemingly wonderful life and protestations by his loved ones, it is possible he took his own life and did not wish for his body to be found. (Perhaps to avoid causing his family pain).

Personally, I think a random crime/carjacking is most likely and that is why this new detective with gang knowledge was assigned. To me, suicide is the 2nd most likely scenario. It’s a much more simple explanation than the theories that he purposefully met up with someone and was killed in my opinion.

JMO poor Alan and his loved ones.

This could be just dumb luck. Bodies are actually pretty hard to find in either of the scenarios you mention.

 

[Rush4087]

I don't discount the possibility of a carjacking (something similar to the Hedgerow Dr incident which occurred just 2 wks after AW's disappearance, within 1/3 of a mile of his house, and within 3-4 blocks of the Inwood-Lemmon intersection on his route home). But I'm beginning to wonder if that might just be because of how I define "carjacking"

"Carjacking" to me can simply be the theft of a car that occurs while the owner or driver of the car is present at the time of taking. It can also however be the taking of the vehicle along with the owner/driver of the vehicle (while the owner/driver remains inside the vehicle). This does not have to only occur when the owner driver is seated inside the vehicle while in traffic (where he/she could simply lock the doors and floor it), it can occur while the owner/driver is walking to or from his/her vehicle in a parking lot, and is then forced (back) into it.

In this sense I suppose the crime is more like a kidnapping. But it's a kidnapping that occurs in the owner/driver's own vehicle, and not in the perp's vehicle. When a plane is occupied by passengers and crew and there is a similar crime, we don't call that crime a kidnapping, we call it a hijacking.

A carjacking can be a form of armed robbery. Studies have claimed that it has an urban street crime connotation. When the owner/driver of a vehicle is taken along with the vehicle, it is often done for the purpose of extorting money (ATM, accessing accounts) from the owner/driver, or collecting ransom from the owner/driver's family in exchange for the release of the hostage(s).

Just a note, but for similar reasons, I think the recent AB kidnapping and murder in NC/VA could also be (and at times was) considered a carjacking (a carjacking followed by a murder). An armed robbery followed by murder of the owner/driver so there would be no witness.

In this sense, I think carjacking can sometimes "be to a car", as highjacking "is to a plane". Imo if somebody highjacked a plane that had no passengers or crew on board, that could simply be termed a "plane theft". So, by my definition, the fact that AW's car has been found - while he has not - doesn't necessarily mean that this wasn't a carjacking. It just means that it wasn't a car theft. This is jmo.

Also, as has been pointed out here before, the fact that we (the public) have not been made aware (by LE or family) of any attempts by AW or any possible perp(s) to use - or force AW to use - his credit cards, or to otherwise access his accounts, and/or that we (the public) have not been made aware of any (possible) attempts by any (possible) perps to make contact with AW's family to (possibly) seek ransom (both of which happened in the Hedgerow Dr. incident) should not be surprising: we (the public) would not have been told. We simply wouldn't know.

Although most local media reports referred to the early-Nov Hedgerow Dr incident as a carjacking, the two suspects in that case were eventually charged with aggravated kidnapping. I think that if AW perhaps stopped somewhere on his short drive home from the RT - maybe at the Starbucks or at his car dealership (both located near the Inwood-Lemmon intersection) something like the Hedgerow Dr. crime could have happened (just one possibility). Whether you call it carjacking or aggravated kidnapping with armed robbery (and possibly murder) might just be a matter of semantics. I hope that is not what happened.

Jmo

 

[happyday]

I don't discount the possibility of a carjacking (something similar to the Hedgerow Dr incident which occurred just 2 wks after AW's disappearance, within 1/3 of a mile of his house, and within 3-4 blocks of the Inwood-Lemmon intersection on his route home). But I'm beginning to wonder if that might just be because of how I define "carjacking"

"Carjacking" to me can simply be the theft of a car that occurs while the owner or driver of the car is present at the time of taking. It can also however be the taking of the vehicle along with the owner/driver of the vehicle (while the owner/driver remains inside the vehicle). This does not have to only occur when the owner driver is seated inside the vehicle while in traffic (where he/she could simply lock the doors and floor it), it can occur while the owner/driver is walking to or from his/her vehicle in a parking lot, and is then forced (back) into it.

In this sense I suppose the crime is more like a kidnapping. But it's a kidnapping that occurs in the owner/driver's own vehicle, and not in the perp's vehicle. When a plane is occupied by passengers and crew and there is a similar crime, we don't call that crime a kidnapping, we call it a hijacking.

A carjacking can be a form of armed robbery. Studies have claimed that it has an urban street crime connotation. When the owner/driver of a vehicle is taken along with the vehicle, it is often done for the purpose of extorting money (ATM, accessing accounts) from the owner/driver, or collecting ransom from the owner/driver's family in exchange for the release of the hostage(s).

Just a note, but for similar reasons, I think the recent AB kidnapping and murder in NC/VA could also be (and at times was) considered a carjacking (a carjacking followed by a murder). An armed robbery followed by murder of the owner/driver so there would be no witness.

In this sense, I think carjacking can sometimes "be to a car", as highjacking "is to a plane". Imo if somebody highjacked a plane that had no passengers or crew on board, that could simply be termed a "plane theft". So, by my definition, the fact that AW's car has been found - while he has not - doesn't necessarily mean that this wasn't a carjacking. It just means that it wasn't a car theft. This is jmo.

Also, as has been pointed out here before, the fact that we (the public) have not been made aware (by LE or family) of any attempts by AW or any possible perp(s) to use - or force AW to use - his credit cards, or to otherwise access his accounts, and/or that we (the public) have not been made aware of any (possible) attempts by any (possible) perps to make contact with AW's family to (possibly) seek ransom (both of which happened in the Hedgerow Dr. incident) should not be surprising: we (the public) would not have been told. We simply wouldn't know.

Although most local media reports referred to the early-Nov Hedgerow Dr incident as a carjacking, the two suspects in that case were eventually charged with aggravated kidnapping. I think that if AW perhaps stopped somewhere on his short drive home from the RT - maybe at the Starbucks or at his car dealership (both located near the Inwood-Lemmon intersection) something like the Hedgerow Dr. crime could have happened (just one possibility). Whether you call it carjacking or aggravated kidnapping with car theft (and possibly murder) might just be a matter of semantics. I hope that is not what happened.

Jmo

Yes, I agree. There are just sooooooo many ways a “carjacking” could have happened to end up with Alan not found and the car dumped in South Dallas.

He could have had his car windows down. He could have stopped at Starbucks or whatever. He could have panicked and not cooperated. A kidnapping could have been the plan. Getting him out of the car could have been the plan and he resisted. He could have been killed immediately and plan B had to be enacted. He could have been forced to withdraw money and he refused and was killed then. Etc....

There are a zillion ways a “carjacking” could have occurred whether the car or Alan & money was the target. They could have been spooked and dumped car or maybe the car wasn’t ever the target but Alan didn’t cooperate with a robbery.

Who knows, but that area is no stranger to these kinds of crimes so Occam’s Razor tells me it’s probably some sort of random crime.

 

[anonypotomous]

If being on Websleuths has taught me anything, it's to be open to everything.

 

[Mitch1]

The only thing that gives me pause when it comes to the carjacking theory is that this is the 2nd time I have read or heard that, in particular to Dallas, these carjackers are showing up with shotguns. Crazy considering they aren’t real conspicuous. Still though if they held him at shotgun point and put him into a second vehicle (to dispose of him) while a second perp takes the car is the only way I see this happening without finding the body or evidence of injury or fight in Alan’s car. MOO-that is a lot of risk for a car that they just abandoned. Not to mention this happened just barely after 6am-do these criminals get up that early or stay out that late, I don’t think so but who knows. I still lean toward self harm but again I can understand why others see carjacking as the motive.

 

[rosesfromangels]

The only thing that gives me pause when it comes to the carjacking theory is that this is the 2nd time I have read or heard that, in particular to Dallas, these carjackers are showing up with shotguns. Crazy considering they aren’t real conspicuous. Still though if they held him at shotgun point and put him into a second vehicle (to dispose of him) while a second perp takes the car is the only way I see this happening without finding the body or evidence of injury or fight in Alan’s car. MOO-that is a lot of risk for a car that they just abandoned. Not to mention this happened just barely after 6am-do these criminals get up that early or stay out that late, I don’t think so but who knows. I still lean toward self harm but again I can understand why others see carjacking as the motive.

The car jackers leave the car in a safe bit abandoned spot to see if anyone GPS tracks it before they do whatever.

amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Valiant]

The car jackers leave the car in a safe bit abandoned spot to see if anyone GPS tracks it before they do whatever.

amateur opinion and speculation

But many thieves, especially those that target certain vehicles, know how to disable tracking so it's not a deterrent for them.

 

[Synergizer Bunny]

Just curious why you think a random crime couldn’t have happened close to home?...

I just think that the chances are low. Alan was in his car and driving about 1.5 miles from home on a busy road. If he was going straight home, he would have made it.

I personally think that, when he briefly walked into the RT store, he was looking for someone who wasn't there. The meeting place was then changed to some other place.

Something happened at this other meeting place.

This of course is pure speculation as we have little to no information.

 

[ZZ Topps]

IMO, the suicide angle seems to fit, especially since this could be the information LE received from family (he was depressed or talked about it in the past, etc) to change it to "missing endangered". It seems to fit with the exception of one small detail. If that was his plan and goal, he likely would have thought it out carefully, but why would he have ever bothered to go to the gym and get gas that morning if he was planning something like this. Really, you would have skipped all that and just put the plan into action. That part does not add up.

 

[darring21]

There is another theory that fits here (body not found, the quiet and the lack of vigils etc). Despite AW’s seemingly wonderful life and protestations by his loved ones, it is possible he took his own life and did not wish for his body to be found. (Perhaps to avoid causing his family pain).

Personally, I think a random crime/carjacking is most likely and that is why this new detective with gang knowledge was assigned. To me, suicide is the 2nd most likely scenario. It’s a much more simple explanation than the theories that he purposefully met up with someone and was killed in my opinion.

JMO poor Alan and his loved ones.

At the beginning, I considered suicide but the reason I discount it is where the car was found. I don't think he would go there.

 

[Knox]

Good question- if random crime/carjacking, why was AW not found?
All just theories follow...
One person upthread theorized AW was tossed over a certain bridge. Others pointed out the landfill.

Why would a criminal hide his body?

• In hopes of getting value out of the car before it became too hot.
• Concerns they could be tied to crime by ballistics, dna on clothes or body or surveillance video.
• They want to keep their gun but if body was found, the gun would have to be tossed.

There is another theory that fits here (body not found, the quiet and the lack of vigils etc). Despite AW’s seemingly wonderful life and protestations by his loved ones, it is possible he took his own life and did not wish for his body to be found. (Perhaps to avoid causing his family pain).

Personally, I think a random crime/carjacking is most likely and that is why this new detective with gang knowledge was assigned. To me, suicide is the 2nd most likely scenario. It’s a much more simple explanation than the theories that he purposefully met up with someone and was killed in my opinion.

JMO poor Alan and his loved ones.

Not high on my list, but any and all reasonable theories should be on the table- as our good friend @anonypotomous points out.
My thoughts are;

• Met up with someone known to him, personal/financial motive.
• Random crime, unknown motive.
• Self-Harm, unknown motive.

 

[margarita25]

I could totally be on board a car jacking theory IF AW had been found.

But if we consider the car jacking theory as valid, then let’s imagine what that scenario would look like:

The bad guys shoot AW and take the car.

Soooo...why don’t we know where AW is? Why would carjackers care one bit about making sure AW isn’t found?

I believe in Occam’s Razor but the pieces just aren’t fitting with what should be the likeliest scenarios.

Tim Bosma, who was killed for his vehicle by perps DM and MS, was disposed of in an incinerator.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Tim Bosma, who was killed for his vehicle by perps DM and MS, was disposed of in an incinerator.

Evil personified.

I do believe a similar scenario has occurred in this case, I am sad to say.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Cryptic]

One person upthread theorized AW was tossed over a certain bridge. Others pointed out the landfill.

Those are both possibilities, but less likely in DFW. The one landfill that I am familiar with in DFW was very tightly run:

They checked my ID and license at the gate to make sure I was not abusing my occasional residential only dumping courtesy. Then then glanced at the stuff I had to make sure it was residential and not commercial or hazardous.

Then... they directed me to a specific spot and told me dump and leave- do not to try to salvage anything from the previous person.

Likewise, "rivers" in most of Texas, including DFW, would be called "creeks" (or maybe "cricks"?) in Virginia.

Rivers in DFW are shallow, have a lot of snags, sand banks etc. Unless it is a flood time, nothing tossed in the "rivers" goes very far- and there are a lot of homeless around the bottoms so tossed things tend to get seen sooner than later.

 

[happyday]

Tim Bosma, who was killed for his vehicle by perps DM and MS, was disposed of in an incinerator.

That’s terrible. This is the kind of thing I keep thinking about because no matter what scenario you plug in for his disappearance, it’s just weird that he hasn’t been found by now. I mean I know it happens, but this is in the Dallas city limits we’re talking about, not vast mountain terrain. Seems like somebody would have spotted him by now if he had been quickly dumped, as would be the case in a random crime or even a planned, targeted murder for that matter. And I would expect if he committed suicide, he couldn’t have been THAT well hidden. Again—in city limits. There are lots of people all around where he lived, got gas, worked out and where his car was found. How far could he possibly be and why has no one spotted him yet?

Unless he were being held alive somewhere (no) or left voluntarily (I just don’t think so!) I would just expect someone to have found him by now. Sigh.

 

[anonypotomous]

I would just expect someone to have found him by now. Sigh.

MOO, but I think it all depends on how the scenario played out as to how he has been hidden or (ugh) disposed of.

If it was something targeted or planned, I fear the perpetrator(s) took a great deal of care to hide or get rid of the body. If it was random, I think there's a better chance of finding him, as he may have been dumped off hastily.

This is just so sad and brutal to even type out.

 

[geevee]

At the beginning, I considered suicide but the reason I discount it is where the car was found. I don't think he would go there.

From what we know about AW, I think suicide is very unlikely, why would he plan it for that morning when his niece and her fiancee were staying with them with plans that day for wedding prep? It just makes no sense at all.

My husband was almost car jacked, he'd stopped at a gas station to get a cup of coffee and as he was unlocking his truck door to leave, a young burly guy approached him, shoved a knife at him and told him to get in his truck.

He refused, the guy demanded money, hub again refused, the guy hauled off and plastered hub in the mouth and took off. He had to get 16 stitches inside his mouth but he said he knew this guy was going to leave him dead on the side of a road had he gone with him so he took his chances. BTW, he was never caught, hub was only called down once to look at mug shots, never saw anyone who looked like this very distinctive guy in them.

I think if AW did stop for coffee or pastries to surprise them at home with, a car jacking could have happened, bodies are hard to find and with the loaner being left in a secluded spot (according to his niece), his body is probably in a likewise spot. I hate thinking that, AW sounds like such a terrific guy, one you'd cherish as a friend or family member.

 

[rosesfromangels]

MOO, but I think it all depends on how the scenario played out as to how he has been hidden or (ugh) disposed of.

If it was something targeted or planned, I fear the perpetrator(s) took a great deal of care to hide or get rid of the body. If it was random, I think there's a better chance of finding him, as he may have been dumped off hastily.

This is just so sad and brutal to even type out.

It may be worthwhile to investigate when maintenance crews for that town do their routine activities. (Weed abatement, culvert cleaning, embankment inspections, and so forth). Many discoveries seem to be made during routine maintenance activities.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Mitch1]

Since it is reported that the status changed to missing endangered due to a recent conversation with family, I wonder if the family noticed missing meds or a gun that wasn’t recovered from the vehicle-just thinking along the lines of self harm.