TX - Elizabeth Barraza, 29, murdered setting up garage sale, Harris Co, Jan 2019 #4

[iamnotagolem]

Regarding the pressure of the moment and how it affects one's results I recently read an article that stated only 20% of infantry in Europe in WW2 fired their weapon at the enemy. Part of this is attributed to the fact that not all infantry encountered the enemy. But another part is that regardless of their training, the individual did not have it in them to shoot at another human being. LE has supposedly has received EXTENSIVE training like going thru simulation training in a mock-up buildings with pop-up targets. Yet look at the shoot out LE had with the Boston Marathon bombers in Watertown. TRAINED LE fired between 200 and 300 rounds at the two suspects. And we had multiple LE agencies involved. (I've heard a number of 260+ by LE, but I can't find it.) And what was the result? LE killed ONE and WOUNDED a second. That result for the massive number of rounds fired.

Boston Marathon bombing - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Adrenaline, stress in a REAL situation by trained professionals appeared to be irrelevant when confronted in a live situation.

And here we have a shooter who may or may NOT have simulation training. And they don't exhibit good shooting skills. Again, I tend to believe this shooter was inexperienced. But I can see the argument for the opposite.

BBM, I go back and forth on how experienced the shooter was, I tend to agree they were inexperienced. I'd think an experienced shooter would use both hands to hold the gun like they've been trained. The killer was so close to Liz that 4 shots/4 hits isn't that surprising at that distance.

 

[Cryptic]

I tend to agree they were inexperienced. I'd think an experienced shooter would use both hands to hold the gun like they've been trained. The killer was so close to Liz that 4 shots/4 hits isn't that surprising at that distance.

One can know with out having experienced, understand with out being taught.

Ok, phony mysticism aside, I think there is an "in between" possibility. Such proficiency sans apparent training could indicate: "Daddy's tom girl" (figure has feminine vibes to me).

Deep down Daddy wanted a boy. So Daddy's girl was introduced to can plinking, dead appliance .22 hol'in, and quite possibly hunting. Though she never received formal training, she has a skill with weapons.

Going further out on a limb....

Daddy's Tom girl also played softball in high school (plenty of big boned, but athletically light on their feet girls in the sport). Class and team mates remember a high maintenance chick who relished "team captain" type roles. The CiQ (Chick in Question) also had a jealous streak regarding the success of other girls in sports, boys, attention, or anything else.

 

[iamnotagolem]

One can know with out having experienced, understand with out being taught.

Ok, phony mysticism aside, I think there is an "in between" possibility. Such proficiency sans apparent training could indicate: "Daddy's tom girl" (figure has feminine vibes to me).

Deep down Daddy wanted a boy. So Daddy's girl was introduced to can plinking, dead appliance .22 hol'in, and quite possibly hunting. Though she never received formal training, she has a skill with weapons.

Going further out on a limb....

Daddy's Tom girl also played softball in high school (plenty of big boned, but athletically light on their feet girls in the sport). Class and team mates remember a high maintenance chick who relished "team captain" type roles. The CiQ (Chick in Question) also had a jealous streak regarding the success of other girls in sports, boys, attention, or anything else.

I don't think the killer needs to be a "tom girl". It has nothing to do with how feminine or athletic or anything, it's just point and shoot. There is no skill required to pull a trigger when you're 3 feet from the victim.

If this had been a shot at 50 yards and one handed and with something with some recoil, then yes I'd think it was someone who had some experience.

 

[KindMind1ofA]

BBM, I go back and forth on how experienced the shooter was, I tend to agree they were inexperienced. I'd think an experienced shooter would use both hands to hold the gun like they've been trained. The killer was so close to Liz that 4 shots/4 hits isn't that surprising at that distance.

My thinking is that it could be a mix; an "experienced" shooter who has never been trained.. like gang or cartel affiliation where they've done shootings like this before but never spent time at the range.

 

[Cryptic]

I don't think the killer needs to be a "tom girl". It has nothing to do with how feminine or athletic or anything, it's just point and shoot. There is no skill required to pull a trigger when you're 3 feet from the victim.

If this had been a shot at 50 yards and one handed and with something with some recoil, then yes I'd think it was someone who had some experience.

Just pointing and shooting can be deceptively hard if somebody has never handled a weapon before.

The pistol is going to rise from the recoil and must be brought back on target for following shots, or the shooter will soon find themselves missing.

Likewise, there can be a natural tendency to want to truly aim. This then leads to the in experienced shooter trying to align the pistol sites to their eye- and taking time to do so.

In regards to athleticism..... I see a big boned female approach the victim. She then flees quickly using mincing or shortened steps. Softball features alot of big boned girls and quick mincing steps when fielding and base running.

 

[iamnotagolem]

Just pointing and shooting can be deceptively hard if somebody has never handled a weapon before.

The pistol is going to rise from the recoil and must be brought back on target for following shots, or the shooter will soon find themselves missing.

Likewise, there can be a natural tendency to want to truly aim. This then leads to the in experienced shooter trying to align the pistol sites to their eye- and taking time to do so.

In regards to athleticism..... I see a big boned female approach the victim. She then flees quickly using a feminine stride with mincing or shortened steps. Softball features alot of big boned girls and quick mincing steps when fielding and base running.

There is very little recoil on a .38 revolver, even when you watch the video you can see that there isn't any. She may have pulled and fired too quickly on that first shot, but the next two hit dead center mass without a problem.

I'm not arguing that the killer seems athletic or bigger built. I was just pointing out that it was an easy shot to take that even a first time shooter would likely not miss.

For example, our children started shooting at around age 5 at 25 yards with a target roughly 10" and didn't miss. So shooting a human at around 5' would be easy by comparison even for someone inexperienced.

That being said, I would imagine that the killer had spent at least a little time practicing. But I disagree with the idea that this had to be a professional hit.

 

[fridaybaker]

Why does the State of Texas allow two murders of innocent women to go unpunished? I am talking about the murders of Terri Bevers and Elisabeth Barraza. Justice must be done.
They were not offenders, they lived their lives as women. They did not deserve to die that way. Justice for women.

Texas does punish murders. However, you have to find them and prove their guilt in court for them to be punished. If you have information that would solve these cases and help the State of Texas to get justice, please sent it in.

There are many innocent men who've died at the hands of criminals in Texas and elsewhere. Justice for men, too.

 

[Cryptic]

My thinking is that it could be a mix; an "experienced" shooter who has never been trained.. like gang or cartel affiliation where they've done shootings like this before but never spent time at the range.

Possibly, but thankfully most gang shootings seem to use the "Spray and Pray" technique.

I agree with no formal training though. I just get "coke can plinker" vibes from the use of the pistol. But, as you stated, the apparent proficiency can come from other sources as well.

Athletics could also help with achieving an untrained proficiency. One family friend of mine learned .22 coke can hunting very fast with minimal instruction. Never fired a gun in her life. But was a natural at basketball.

 

[fridaybaker]

When I first saw this video my initial reaction was that this killer was not that experienced with shooting. Biggest thing was no two handed grip. Then the Arrin Stoner video of the LE report which states 3 hits and not 4 solidified that for me at the time.

Now we have 4 hits again. But the bullet placement for such a short distance is still all over the place. Supposedly the first shot is to the side of her neck? (I wonder how they know that was the first and not the second or third shot?) So the poor grouping coupled with the lack of proper shooting technique leads me to believe this is an inexperienced shooter.

If I see a counter argument to this its that shooting a person is not the same as shooting a paper target. That and the adrenaline of the moment might cause a deviation from training.

All that said, I still lean toward an inexperienced shooter. I do wonder about the choice of firearm type - a revolver. Most carry guns now are semi-auto and not revolver. Did the shooter pick this to avoid leaving casings behind? OR was this just what the shooter really had available? An interesting note is that I've heard a firearms instructor give advice to women on a choice of handgun. They sometimes recommend a revolver because of the effort required to work the slide on a semi-auto. So, another argument that this shooter might be a woman?

Your comments are great. However, I'm very discouraged at this point that we still can't agree on whether the shooter was experienced or not.

Having grainy videos doesn't seem to help in many cases. I'm thinking of Elijah Wood, but there are so many.

 

[Cedars]

Having grainy videos doesn't seem to help in many cases. I'm thinking of Elijah Wood, but there are so many.

RSBM

It was still dark out. Darkness helps a lot. But even with daylight, would anyone convincingly recognize that tiny, distant figure and report it to police?

I remember the case of another front yard murder, Dan Markel: there was no camera, but police did track the vehicle to an image captured by a bus that it passed shortly after the murder. But this was in broad daylight, so LE could see the vehicle had a toll transponder. They checked the toll station(s), got a dozen potential vehicles to investigate, and tracked the correct one to a car rental agency and the person who rented it. That led to unravelling the case.

Police need a key piece of evidence that gives them that direct tie from the crime to the perp. They have no crystal ball to gaze at. It's often just sheer luck, that they find it.

It seems as soon as police/public implement one system of detection, determined criminals set to work figuring out how to thwart it. For example, murdering the victim outdoors, so no chance of leaving DNA, fingerprints, etc.

JMO

 

[Ajs1004]

RSBM

It was still dark out. Darkness helps a lot. But even with daylight, would anyone convincingly recognize that tiny, distant figure and report it to police?

I remember the case of another front yard murder, Dan Markel: there was no camera, but police did track the vehicle to an image captured by a bus that it passed shortly after the murder. But this was in broad daylight, so LE could see the vehicle had a toll transponder. They checked the toll station(s), got a dozen potential vehicles to investigate, and tracked the correct one to a car rental agency and the person who rented it. That led to unravelling the case.

Police need a key piece of evidence that gives them that direct tie from the crime to the perp. They have no crystal ball to gaze at. It's often just sheer luck, that they find it.

It seems as soon as police/public implement one system of detection, determined criminals set to work figuring out how to thwart it. For example, murdering the victim outdoors, so no chance of leaving DNA, fingerprints, etc.

JMO

This is a good point. I wonder if the truck had a Texas tag. I don’t know if that’s what it was called back then, it might have had a different name.

 

[KindMind1ofA]

Your comments are great. However, I'm very discouraged at this point that we still can't agree on whether the shooter was experienced or not.

Agree! And whether it's a man or woman! I think we can say with some confidence at least that this isn't a "trained" shooter - e.g. unlikely to be military or law enforcement.

My personal opinion is that this person has fired weapons before - I know how easy it is for the pull of the trigger to draw the barrel to the right, and for the recoil to pull the barrel up... when firing in rapid succession IMHO these would lead to misses by that 3rd shot if the shooter was firing a pistol for the first time. Granted, 10 or 15 shots at the range would probably be enough to prepare the shooter sufficiently to avoid these.

I believe FBI lab would have some shot of identifying or narrowing down the type of weapon by sound, recovered bullet, footage of weapon and muzzle flash .. hopefully this has been done.

 

[AppleTreeGreen]

One other thought I had, though maybe it is not that important, is that this person may have had 0-4 hours sleep between the time they drove by the house around 2 AM and coming back after 6:50. I wonder how this person was able to stay up or have the energy to shoot, sprint and speed the way they did if they didn’t get that much rest the night before? Is this someone who typically works nights, did they happen to buy any coffee, energy drinks or food nearby and if so, are any of the cameras of nearby vendors or bars on the highways/interstate helpful? Was he or she not expected at work or home in the morning like Liz and Sergio?

Also, I read that investigators believe the killer drove back to make sure Liz was dead and that caused me to wonder about the age, experience and thought process of the killer because unfortunately he or she shot Liz four times throughout her neck, chest and head. Why weren’t the placement of the shots and the severity of her injuries enough to give the shooter assurance? The killer also did not get out of the car so they did not check for a pulse, they didn’t do a sternal rub to see if she could regain consciousness and I can’t speak if they could see the rise and fall of Liz’s chest to indicate if she was breathing but it did turn out that Liz was still alive when the killer drove back so I wonder what the shooter expected to see or hear to make their assessment? Did they expect hear her groaning or calling out for help despite her neck, chest and facial wounds? Did they think she would just get up and walk? And even if they determined she was still alive was it was worth the risk of getting out of the car to shoot more knowing that the shots would be loud and attract attention and that neighbors and witnesses could use that time to zoom in and take pictures of the killer, the license plates and the vehicle? It might be possible they maybe they were just using visual cues to make their assessment or possibly they were taking video or pictures for proof or experiencing feelings of disbelief about what they had just done and had to verify it for themselves but I was just wondering a little bit about this.

 

[KindMind1ofA]

I wonder what the shooter expected to see or hear to make their assessment?

Great questions. I haven't rewatched the 2nd drive-by video recently but iirc, the killer didn't really slow down - if that's true I don't think LEs first impression about why the killer drove back by is accurate. If they were taking pictures or assessing their work, I'd expect them to slow down substantially.. my best guess is what the stoner video proposed, that the killer rerouted back by the house to avoid LE response. (Or even just avoid witnesses - e.g. did the killer see people waiting for a bus, joggers or whatever and want to avoid the added visibility?)

 

[KindMind1ofA]

this person may have had 0-4 hours sleep between the time they drove by the house around 2 AM and coming back after 6:50.

This is another good point... Where were they between 2am and 6am? obviously not Miami. Presumably they slept somewhere - but maybe they stayed awake... in either case they must have had the truck parked somewhere..

Another point we mentioned earlier on the thread was about how far they could have come from without stopping at a gas station, most likely they didn't fill up near the crime scene - and I'm realizing they could have had cans of gas in the back of the truck too to extend their range.

 

[KindMind1ofA]

On the topic of experienced vs novice shooters, this study indicates that from 3-15 feet, novice shooters are most often (57%) aiming for the head:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/276460666_The_real_risks_during_deadly_police_shootouts_Accuracy_of_the_naive_shooter

 

[KindMind1ofA]

On the topic of experienced vs novice shooters, this study indicates that from 3-15 feet, novice shooters are most often (57%) aiming for the head:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/276460666_The_real_risks_during_deadly_police_shootouts_Accuracy_of_the_naive_shooter

Also mentions novice shooters hit about 75% of the time from 3-15 feet. This was target shooting though, so I'd expect less accuracy in real life.

 

[MntnHiker]

Yeah I've also been curious where they went and what they did between the 2 AM drive by and when they returned to Liz's neighborhood for the murder. I think it's one of four possibilities IMO:

1. They are actually local and just went home (I don't think this is the most likely; I've always felt they were from OOT but I might be wrong)
2. They stayed at a hotel
3. They slept in their car somewhere
4. They just drove around and never slept.

I'm assuming LE has looked into this time period and tried to get the vehicle on video footage. And maybe they have and it hasn't been released to us. I'd be curious to look at CCTV from nearby hotels for that overnight period. It could even be they (I will use they because gender and number of people in the car is unknown) checked in earlier that night, left around 2 to do their recon and then went back. I feel like staying in a hotel is risky though with credit card trails, CCTV, etc.

So for option 3, I was first going to suggest looking at cameras at any nearby Walmarts or other places that have large parking lots where someone might stop overnight and not drop a ton of attention. However, it is just as likely they pulled over on some out-of-the-way road somewhere where they weren't likely to be picked up by any cameras.

I also think if they did #4, it would be riskier at 2 AM as there just aren't as many cars on the streets at that time and there HAS to be CCTV at some businesses around there. But of course, even if they were picked up on some, it may not lead to the vehicle, just as the footage from the morning of the shooting has not seemed to lead to the vehicle.

I guess a fifth possibility is they stayed with someone they knew, but I feel like that would just add risk they didn't need to add.

 

[KindMind1ofA]

Good points! And of the viable options, my money is on:

They slept in their car somewhere

That late at night it seems like it would be super risky to drive around and risk getting spotted on cctv.. so I can't imagine they would have driven back to a populous area like Houston.. does anyone know what direction LE indicates they were heading after the murder when they were lost to cameras? Whatever area that is would be my best guess on where they spent the night as well

 

[HousewaresAisle3]

I think it is a strong possibility they are local, but there are reasons to suspect the shooter was not someone Liz knew. But I am very unwilling to lean towards that conclusion. I. Fact I lean more towards someone she knew (or knew of).

I come back around to the motive. This was a targeted attack to get rid of Liz Barraza. Someone had reason to want her dead in January 2019. That screams local connection at least in some way.

If this was a hired hit the person who did the hiring is local imo. And I think the person who wanted Liz dead is close to her. My opinion and I am not anywhere close to100% on anything.

I’m the Arron Stoner video he speculates that the killer and their associate are wearing masks. If true, does anyone get the sense she reacts to this?

At that time of day I could see the mask looking real enough to make her think it was not a mask. She definitely reacts to the gun, but there is really no way to read if she was apprehensive in any way.

I bring this up because I do not think we can tell from the video whether or not this was a person known to Liz. It very well could be or not. But that doesn’t mean we say it was not. A disguise and catching her off guard combined with the very short amount of time between the shooters approach and the murder make it very possible this was someone she would have recognized.

Purely speculating let’s say your partner’s parent was involved in some various unethical behaviors. You confront that person and make it an issue. Perhaps this person is quite worried about some threats made regarding exposing them or making some sort of formal or legal action. This is motive. This person and their associate(s) in their unethical dealings have a reason to be rid of you.

You do not need to know the associate of the person well but they might be motivated to murder you. This person is also very much a local.

This is all speculation on my part.