TX TX - Elizabeth Barraza, 29, murdered setting up garage sale, Harris Co, Jan 2019 #6

[fridaybaker]

I’m not an expert shooter, but I think there are folks here who think the shooter is pretty proficient with a gun. No hesitation, one-handed shooting, “up close and personal”, maybe more.

I do have some experience and I couldn’t have done what the killer did. Just MOE.

 

[Charlot123]

I re-watched a video about this case and I'd like to echo some thoughts:

• The police never found any of the most common motives or risk factors in Liz's life (as far as we know, at least)
• Why turn back? it has been often said that they were probably returning to the scene to check if Liz is dead. It is an easy thought, as all they seem to be doing is "looking", but thinking about it, does it really make sense? What would they have done if, say, Liz was obviously alive? Stopped the truck, run to her and shot again? Really? It was also extremely risky. Firstly, this is Texas, and secondly, there were neighbours on the phone with the police already. And after turning back they ended up on a dead-end street. If they had planned to go back and check on her, this is also odd. I am starting to think that maybe they did not turn around because they wanted to turn around, but because they could not continue going the way they were going. Or did they just want to see her on the ground, in a satisfying way?
• Why speak with Liz before killing her? I think this is one of the reasons why I feel the motive was personal and emotional, a revenge. They wanted Liz to know why they were there and what they were going to do.
• Why 4 shots? Revolvers have 6 or 5 cartridges, so why not use the last 2 (especially if they were really later going back to "see if she is dead")? To avoid staying longer than needed as she was "dead enough"? Simply panicking and losing count? Or was the killer saving the last bullet(s) to avoid being caught alive?
• The shooting. I know nothing about guns, never even seen a revolver IRL, but a lot of people agree that the shooter was not "fluent in shooting": elbow not locked, making stabbing movements while shooting.

I also cannot get over the arrival (driving past pretty fast, then doing a not-so-smooth 3-point-turn) nor the decision to turn into a school parking lot (in the list of places that I would think might have cameras, a school is in the top3 for sure) nor understand the aim of the 2AM drive-by (what did it give them, that they could not have seen on Maps assuming they were not local, but would still be relevant hours later during the crime? or was the aim of that drive something else, not passing the house per say?).

I lost him when he explained that the killer couldn’t have hidden the car in one of the garages in another development, next to the courthouse. Unless I don’t know something, he well could have. Is there a chance of a person living 2 miles away, in another development without HOA and with fewer cameras? I think it is not excluded.

 

[Otterplop]

I lost him when he explained that the killer couldn’t have hidden the car in one of the garages in another development, next to the courthouse. Unless I don’t know something, he well could have. Is there a chance of a person living 2 miles away, in another development without HOA and with fewer cameras? I think it is not excluded.

Not sure, my roommate is from Houston and said Tomball is where rich people live - lol. In that sense, I imagine the majority of neighborhoods would have HOA or a watch, but then again I'm just assuming. I think authorities have more footage of the truck than we know, but maybe it's not clear enough? We can only hope they have more, especially with the FBI being involved I'm praying there is more than we realize! The pieces just need to fit together, someone needs to talk, etc.

 

[Charlot123]

Not sure, my roommate is from Houston and said Tomball is where rich people live - lol. In that sense, I imagine the majority of neighborhoods would have HOA or a watch, but then again I'm just assuming. I think authorities have more footage of the truck than we know, but maybe it's not clear enough? We can only hope they have more, especially with the FBI being involved I'm praying there is more than we realize! The pieces just need to fit together, someone needs to talk, etc.

(Your roommate has probably not seen where some people live, lol. Before the owner died, we used to have yearly get togethers in a house on a mountain overlooking the Goden Gate bridge in San Francisco. Several layers above, a celebrities house was sold for $ 24 mln, and that was in 2012 or so. Peach trees in the yard, a wine cellar, etc, etc. paradise on earth. And that sunset above the bridge!)

Nothing in Tomball looks this way, but probably the schools are good? The next question is inevitably about the mortgage.

 

[Rosydecember]

(Your roommate has probably not seen where some people live, lol. Before the owner died, we used to have yearly get togethers in a house on a mountain overlooking the Goden Gate bridge in San Francisco. Several layers above, a celebrities house was sold for $ 24 mln, and that was in 2012 or so. Peach trees in the yard, a wine cellar, etc, etc. paradise on earth. And that sunset above the bridge!)

Nothing in Tomball looks this way, but probably the schools are good? The next question is inevitably about the mortgage.

I don’t think that’s a fair comparison. Tom ball might just be known to be a wealthier suburb.

The median household income in Tomball is $94,437. This means Tomball income is much higher than the median income in the United States, with city household incomes in the 89th percentile.

From: https://bestneighborhood.org/household-income-tomball-tx/

 

[glassheater]

Not sure, my roommate is from Houston and said Tomball is where rich people live - lol. In that sense, I imagine the majority of neighborhoods would have HOA or a watch, but then again I'm just assuming. I think authorities have more footage of the truck than we know, but maybe it's not clear enough? We can only hope they have more, especially with the FBI being involved I'm praying there is more than we realize! The pieces just need to fit together, someone needs to talk, etc.

I'm from Houston and grew up next door to Tomball. Tomball isn't necessarily known as a top district or a wealthy suburb. There are other suburbs in Katy, Sugarland, Clearlake which are much wealthier with more sought after schools. However, Tomball is by no means bad or poor. It is a solid middle class area.

 

[Charlot123]

I don’t think that’s a fair comparison. Tom ball might just be known to be a wealthier suburb.

The median household income in Tomball is $94,437. This means Tomball income is much higher than the median income in the United States, with city household incomes in the 89th percentile.

From: https://bestneighborhood.org/household-income-tomball-tx/

Thank you! I looked up median household income in the place where we used to visit (Tiburon, CA) $207,030.

But - to be honest, I can’t compare household incomes because the cost of living is tied up to them, including food, services and gas prices. In my state, in Seattle, 80% of AMI for two people is 80K, and it is considered low-income. So we can’t compare. I am positive that any services in Tomball cost way less than where I live.

But here is an example: the average household income in my neighborhood is way higher but we have streets without HOAs.

 

[arielilane]

Regarding, anti-gang unit involvement in this case, (moo) I’d highly doubt LB case had anything to do with gang activity, or still curious if someone did owe money and never paid up, not meaning LB, but someone close to LB and she being the target? I don't believe that, just spitballing... However, I’d think more along the lines of LE is investigating all possibilities. Isn't gang activity heavy in the Houston area?

For example: In 2017, in the Houston area, a woman is killed in a drive-by shooting, and in 2019, another Houston woman is killed in her own driveway (subsequently the month after LB’s homicide). I don't believe either case is resolved or related to LB case. So it makes sense for LE to look at gang relations.

Imo, there are most likely many gang related crimes in the area, and LE are doing the work needed.

all is a moo

 

[Facinatingtimes]

I re-watched a video about this case and I'd like to echo some thoughts:

• The police never found any of the most common motives or risk factors in Liz's life (as far as we know, at least)
• Why turn back? it has been often said that they were probably returning to the scene to check if Liz is dead. It is an easy thought, as all they seem to be doing is "looking", but thinking about it, does it really make sense? What would they have done if, say, Liz was obviously alive? Stopped the truck, run to her and shot again? Really? It was also extremely risky. Firstly, this is Texas, and secondly, there were neighbours on the phone with the police already. And after turning back they ended up on a dead-end street. If they had planned to go back and check on her, this is also odd. I am starting to think that maybe they did not turn around because they wanted to turn around, but because they could not continue going the way they were going. Or did they just want to see her on the ground, in a satisfying way?
• Why speak with Liz before killing her? I think this is one of the reasons why I feel the motive was personal and emotional, a revenge. They wanted Liz to know why they were there and what they were going to do.
• Why 4 shots? Revolvers have 6 or 5 cartridges, so why not use the last 2 (especially if they were really later going back to "see if she is dead")? To avoid staying longer than needed as she was "dead enough"? Simply panicking and losing count? Or was the killer saving the last bullet(s) to avoid being caught alive?
• The shooting. I know nothing about guns, never even seen a revolver IRL, but a lot of people agree that the shooter was not "fluent in shooting": elbow not locked, making stabbing movements while shooting.

I also cannot get over the arrival (driving past pretty fast, then doing a not-so-smooth 3-point-turn) nor the decision to turn into a school parking lot (in the list of places that I would think might have cameras, a school is in the top3 for sure) nor understand the aim of the 2AM drive-by (what did it give them, that they could not have seen on Maps assuming they were not local, but would still be relevant hours later during the crime? or was the aim of that drive something else, not passing the house per say?).

Just my speculation follows:
-Could have turned around to take a picture? but I agree they might have been spooked and forced to exit a different way.
-maybe speaking with EB was a way to draw her close, and I believe it looks like the killer is showing her something. All to draw her in physically close, IMO.
- 3 shots and she was falling, one final to the face once she was on the ground. (I feel gross even writing this). It took 3 to fall and the final was either personal or a shot to the head to be certain she died.
I think the shooter had some experience, but not a ton, and had a lot of adrenaline(and maybe fear) running through.

 

[glassheater]

But here is an example: the average household income in my neighborhood is way higher but we have streets without HOAs.

Some of the wealthiest neighborhoods in Houston like West U, Southampton etc don't have HOAs either. HOAs are very much a suburb thing in Houston.

 

[glassheater]

Isn't gang activity heavy in the Houston area?

Somelike like EB being gunned down in her nice suburban home in Tomball is not common and very shocking. Houston suburbs overall are safe and I would be extremely shocked if this turned out to be an unrelated gang shooting. Usually biggest crimes are porch pirates or car thefts.

 

[Charlot123]

Just my speculation follows:
-Could have turned around to take a picture? but I agree they might have been spooked and forced to exit a different way.
-maybe speaking with EB was a way to draw her close, and I believe it looks like the killer is showing her something. All to draw her in physically close, IMO.
- 3 shots and she was falling, one final to the face once she was on the ground. (I feel gross even writing this). It took 3 to fall and the final was either personal or a shot to the head to be certain she died.
I think the shooter had some experience, but not a ton, and had a lot of adrenaline(and maybe fear) running through.

The fourth is the so-called "control" shot to the head to be sure she dies. JMO. Usually indicates some level of professionalism, historically, presence of this shot amidst chaotic/random injuries indicates pre-planning and experience.

 

[Charlot123]

Somelike like EB being gunned down in her nice suburban home in Tomball is not common and very shocking. Houston suburbs overall are safe and I would be extremely shocked if this turned out to be an unrelated gang shooting. Usually biggest crimes are porch pirates or car thefts.

Statistically, still possible because of the population density. Crimes happen in the best of neighborhoods, too, and TX is the second-lagest state. It is the reaction that makes it a "high-profile case" because we do not expect it to happen. JMO - not an unrelated gang shooting at all. Maybe initial suspects were cleared, but the time was lost. I am shocked that it hadn't been resolved though

 

[cujenn81]

Regarding, anti-gang unit involvement in this case, (moo) I’d highly doubt LB case had anything to do with gang activity, or still curious if someone did owe money and never paid up, not meaning LB, but someone close to LB and she being the target? I don't believe that, just spitballing... However, I’d think more along the lines of LE is investigating all possibilities. Isn't gang activity heavy in the Houston area?

For example: In 2017, in the Houston area, a woman is killed in a drive-by shooting, and in 2019, another Houston woman is killed in her own driveway (subsequently the month after LB’s homicide). I don't believe either case is resolved or related to LB case. So it makes sense for LE to look at gang relations.

Imo, there are most likely many gang related crimes in the area, and LE are doing the work needed.

all is a moo

I've been thinking about this news re: the anti-gang unit's involvement for a few days now. I know gang units have a lot of experience with obtaining and monitoring wiretaps. It makes me think that maybe LE has a very strong suspect. Maybe they already know who did this and believe more than one person was involved, but they just don't have enough evidence to prove it in a court of law. Maybe the anti-gang unit is assisting the FBI and local law enforcement with the setup and surveillance of a wiretap on said individuals. Maybe the recent press interviews and newly released dash cam footage are part of a concerted effort to get those people talking. Or maybe this is all just wishful thinking... but I'm here for it.

 

[Duper's Delight]

The TIMELINE has been updated on the whokilledlizbarraza site. Linked below. Noted by Robert Nuelle, Jr due to recently released dashcam footage.

Timeline

---

 

[Diddian]

I have a question for those who are more familiar with guns and related equipment than I am.

Given all the other things this killer did to avoid detection (avoiding Nest cam, parking some distance away) or to mislead (potential disguise), WHY not use some kind of noise suppressor which might have increased the likelihood neighbors would not recognize the shootings as gun shots? Are those not possible with a revolver?

IIRC, at least 3 neighbors heard the gun shots and immediately called authorities (at least 2 of them after looking outside and seeing someone down on the ground in the Barraza's driveway).

That quick response increased the likelihood the shooter might be seen leaving the area as neighbors were able to give a description of the vehicle. The quick response also meant authorities closed off the scene early, so that evidence that might have been left by the killer was not contaminated or degraded.

One possible motivation that occurs to me is that noisy shots meant a more accurate timeline as to precisely when the shots were fired, which would be important to the determination that SB had already left the home before the shootings occurred.

 

[Duper's Delight]

Given all the other things this killer did to avoid detection (avoiding Nest cam, parking some distance away) or to mislead (potential disguise), WHY not use some kind of noise suppressor which might have increased the likelihood neighbors would not recognize the shootings as gun shots? Are those not possible with a revolver?

They are possible but are better with a semi-automatic weapon (a weapon that has the slide mechanism), There is a gap on the barrels of a revolver (air) so it doesn't "suppress" as well.

If this is a very small concealed carry weapon I am not sure a suppressor would be possible. A lot of suppressors are custom-made to the gun.

Suppressors can be expensive.

Suppressors are also Federally regulated. More risk.
ETA: you’d really have to have the right street connection even in Houston

 

[Diddian]

They are possible but are better with a semi-automatic weapon (a weapon that has the slide mechanism), There is a gap on the barrels of a revolver (air) so it doesn't "suppress" as well.

If this is a very small concealed carry weapon I am not sure a suppressor would be possible. A lot of suppressors are custom-made to the gun.

Suppressors can be expensive.

Suppressors are also Federally regulated. More risk.
ETA: you’d really have to have the right street connection even in Houston

Thank you for the information!

 

[iamnotagolem]

I have a question for those who are more familiar with guns and related equipment than I am.

Given all the other things this killer did to avoid detection (avoiding Nest cam, parking some distance away) or to mislead (potential disguise), WHY not use some kind of noise suppressor which might have increased the likelihood neighbors would not recognize the shootings as gun shots? Are those not possible with a revolver?

IIRC, at least 3 neighbors heard the gun shots and immediately called authorities (at least 2 of them after looking outside and seeing someone down on the ground in the Barraza's driveway).

That quick response increased the likelihood the shooter might be seen leaving the area as neighbors were able to give a description of the vehicle. The quick response also meant authorities closed off the scene early, so that evidence that might have been left by the killer was not contaminated or degraded.

One possible motivation that occurs to me is that noisy shots meant a more accurate timeline as to precisely when the shots were fired, which would be important to the determination that SB had already left the home before the shootings occurred.

Suppressors involve a lot of paperwork and can take years to process and receive. They are also expensive and not every gun has a threaded barrel for a suppressor.

Not that criminals care about legally owning a suppressor, so they could have easily ordered parts and built one cheap but not for that revolver.

 

[Marzipan]

Not sure, my roommate is from Houston and said Tomball is where rich people live - lol. In that sense, I imagine the majority of neighborhoods would have HOA or a watch, but then again I'm just assuming. I think authorities have more footage of the truck than we know, but maybe it's not clear enough? We can only hope they have more, especially with the FBI being involved I'm praying there is more than we realize! The pieces just need to fit together, someone needs to talk, etc.

My cousin lives there and is barely scraping by. (And no she doesn’t follow the case much.) It’s probably the nicest place she’s lived and she pulled it off to have her daughter in their school district. But definitely not all HOA. That said, I think it’s economically mixed with apartment buildings — and don’t those usually have a camera even if they aren’t luxe at all?
I agree — can’t discount possibilities of nearby garage to escape to. Could even be a business’s garage — and if it’s their own business they control the camera.

ETA average income of $97,000 in a gas&oil economy — very wealthy mixed with lots of much lower paid support staff just averaging out on the high end.