TX TX - Elizabeth Barraza, 29, murdered setting up garage sale, Harris Co, Jan 2019 #7

[STLBlues]

The concept of having a garage sale on a Friday has never made sense to me. In my neighborhood, people have them on weekends only, so that it's convenient for working people. That's when there's foot traffic. People have the time to look.

RSBM - Where I live, Wednesdays and Saturdays are very common garage sale days.

 

[bbbounce]

The shooter would have had to have knowledge of the garage sale. The driving by in the early morning hours before makes me think they had not been there before and wanted to get a lay of the land, so to speak, or plan their escape route. They could have killed her as she left for Starbucks, but the timing of it was predetermined. Why? Knew she would be outside for the garage sale? Wanted to ensure Sergio was gone which would require knowledge of his schedule as well? Both? This case is infuriating!

Also, I think they quickly moved from Goddard school because they didn't account for parents to be dropping their kids off that early. There would have been a much greater chance someone took note of a truck just sitting there. According to the Goddard School website they open at 6am. The timing of the whole thing really baffles me.

All speculation, of course.

I agree with all your points.
My strongest suspicion is still that it’s a close family member. Or someone associated with that family member. Perhaps that person also encouraged Liz to have the garage sale that day.

 

[itsdev]

I often wonder if the last minute decision to go ahead with the garage was due to the bounce check(s) situation? Would it have to do with needing to pay a few small bills? I dont know... just can't imagine why having a garage sale right before leaving for vacation was warranted. I know it's been said for small gifts. Thinking there are so many other things to do... right before a big trip?

Only my thoughts, nothing substantial

I see this come up a lot,and although I can’t speak for having a sale in January in Texas, one thing I know a lot about is getting excited for a vacation that is right around the corner.

Many times I’ve had another full day of work before vacay and with no kids to support I was like eff it, I’m out! And if someone questioned me, I’d be like “yeah I have a lot of errands to do *lies*.

So all MOO, but maybe she really didn’t care about getting too much money , but was just getting stoked about vacay?

 

[Cryptic]

Could they be nonbinary? Not common in her neighborhood probably but more common in cosplay.

Good insight!!

Many adult nerd groups of various genres and interests have a long history of tolerance regarding sexual expression. That does not mean that all participants openly affirm all forms of sexual / gender expression. But, lets just say that there are many kinds of tolerated "different" in "Nerdom".

Going into numbers.....

There are about 35 active and semi active participants in my non cosplay corner of Nerdom. I have seen two participants experiment with presenting themselves as a different gender than their birth gender.

Possibly even more confusing to would be investigators is that both individuals take the other gender for a period of time, then revert back to their birth genders for longer periods of time.

I have no idea if the above sample would represents the copslay average, but if it does, it would yield about 6% of cosplay participants being to varying degrees, non binary or transexual.

 

[arielilane]

I see this come up a lot,and although I can’t speak for having a sale in January in Texas, one thing I know a lot about is getting excited for a vacation that is right around the corner.

Many times I’ve had another full day of work before vacay and with no kids to support I was like eff it, I’m out! And if someone questioned me, I’d be like “yeah I have a lot of errands to do *lies*.

So all MOO, but maybe she really didn’t care about getting too much money , but was just getting stoked about vacay?

You're correct about LB being excited about the vacation. That's my understanding anyway.

Also, my understanding is that LB took her employment very seriously and the day (Friday) off was scheduled ahead, and not a call off sick day sort of thing.

Just to note: Please be advised that I gather this information from her parent's interviews, news articles, etc.

Jmo

 

[bluevioletfour]

The concept of having a garage sale on a Friday has never made sense to me. In my neighborhood, people have them on weekends only, so that it's convenient for working people. That's when there's foot traffic. People have the time to look.

Would the revenue from the garage sale be enough to cover a lost workday and vacation expenses? I can't envision anyone in my neighborhood taking a day off to have a garage sale on a weekday, even if it is a Friday. I can't help but think that setting up the garage sale at this time is part of a plan to ambush Liz when there were very few witnesses around...

I live in Kansas, and garage sales typically start on Friday.

 

[Charlot123]

Why do I have the feeling that the murderer had studied the case of Dan Markel? Probably Liz was killed for a different motive, but the same scenario was used. Only the arrests in Dan's case happened in 2016, and Liz was killed by 2019. Plenty of time to study the case and avoid mistakes Mr. Merkel's hitmen made.

 

[AppleTreeGreen]

One thing I noticed about the shooter is that 3-4 shots seems excessive, especially when considering how close to Liz her killer unfortunately. You would think that whole point of getting that close wasn’t just due to the model of the gun but also to shoot at least once, at most twice, and to make one of those shots a kill one. For example, by aiming specifically at a victim’s head, heart or stomach area. 4 shots not only increase the pain and harm a victim suffers but they also run the risk of being heard by residents and pedestrians in the area, particularly with a gun used without a silencer and in a relatively quiet neighborhood like that the Barrazas used to call home.

Liz, despite the fear and pain she was in, also able to fortunately to still let out a scream after getting shot. In particular, she was able to scream very loud thus increasing the chances of her alerting the neighbors to the danger she was in and getting help. To their own detriment, IMO it doesn’t apear like the killer anticipated that Liz or a gun shot victim in general would still be able to do that otherwise why not be more diligent about where they aim for? Why not goad Liz further into the back into the garage or into the house to try to muffle or decrease the sounds from spreading out? It goes without saying why commit this heinous crime in the first place, especially to someone like Liz? I cannot see any problem anyone could have with her that couldn’t just be worked out. But furthermore why shoot three her more times to cause further suffering, and risk to themselves when they could have ended it all with just one last “kill shot” instead of three? Yes, she could have still lived with such a shot but how do you live knowing that you basically tortured conscious person who did not want to die and spent their last few moments with you defenseless and screaming for their lives? Why wasn’t their any mercy in any of this? From my understanding they shot at her abdomen after aiming for her neck and head? Why? Why not aim at places to reduce consciousness so to make her death as painless and by reducing the amount of bullets, as quiet as possible? They stood over her as they shot at her so they had to know what they were doing as they shot at specific parts of her?

I am sorry for any and all graphic content in regards to Liz. My aim is not disrespect her or the sanctity of her person or what she and her family experienced as a result of her murder. I will delete if this comment is considered harmful. I wonder this because my family grew up in area with a lot of gun violence and I also lost a sibling to it. Liz’s awful shooting, and the justice denied her and her loved ones as the killers/ perps have not been identified, does make me question how much rage or hate did the killer themselves feel towards Liz to carry out the shooting the way they did, in particular with the number of bullets they shot at her, the fact they stood over her and none of the bullets were those typically guaranteed to end life, suffering or consciousness? Was needing to shoot her 3-4 times necessary or does it indicate that the shooter was an amateur? They managed to get Liz to look down for them to making a potential spot for them to aim vulnerable and in plain sight for them and yet they seemingly missed or ignored this spot altogether? Does this mean that they do not have good aim? Did the recoil further hinder them? Did they not know where to shoot? I imagine they must had a ton of adrenaline and nervousness running through them based on how Liz’s horrible murder was carried out? Were their hands or bodies shaking?

It even seems like when they run and how they slid over the front of their car that they realize in a panic how much time they cut off from their own escape based on the fact that they have turn back around to get to their established escape route. This IMO seems to show their panic caused them to make a mistake when they first pulled off hence them turning around and being spotted by cameras when they did so.

How much experience the shooter has with the gun? How often they actually practice shooting with it or even going to a gun range in general? Or was this their first time or at least first time holding a gun or perhaps their first time aiming it at someone? Did they mean to cause Liz further pain out of rage or hate or was it their own inexperience and mental blockade that caused them to carry out their horrific crimes in the way they did?

It seems they prepared enough to plan their route and identify the house, plot an escape route, familiarize themselves with the neighborhood and perhaps also identify the Liz’s and SB’s cars the night before all while also having their brights on to help shield their license plates from detection on neighbor’s cameras but the one thing they couldn’t anticipate was the mental blockage or emotional turmoil or tension and experience that would take hold of them.

IMO Those 4 shots did cost the killer. The first one didn’t hinder Liz’s ability to scream, the time to shoot all 4 probably caused the killer to become pressed for time causing them to panic and make a mistake leading them to drive by twice, why police and EMT were alerted so quickly, why they had to run back to the vehicle from a greater distance so cameras could get a longer recording of their image and wby police were able to at least some of the killer’s early escape route on Kuykendal.

Also, Liz was a fighter. Those four shots did not immediately kill her. So in from the killer’s perspective were any of those four shots worth the risks? With today’s technology and medicine it is getting harder to predict one’s outcome. Liz could have survived them (she should have survived them bc her killer had no right to take her life from her).

MOO but one shot people could probably ignore, especially if the victim immediately experiences LOC and is unable to scream. Neighbors and pedestrians might excuse it for a car backfiring or something. 911 might not have been called. 4 though, not so much. Especially when the first one did not incapacitate the victim’s ability to also shout or scream and all 3 proceeding shots guaranteed that the shooter lost time but not that Liz would lose her life, she fought for as long as she could to hold on at home and at the hospital.

So again why 4 shots? Why not 1 or 2? What was going on in the killer’s mind while they committed this crime and could it help identify or profile them?

Justice Liz Barraza and her family she deserved better. No one should be subjected the violence and horror she suffered through. Her killer was not entitled to her life no matter what they or any co-conspirators were going through. If they felt so justified in killing her than give her family their day in court, let them hold you accountable according to the law, speak up, make your point and give them the closure you denied them for so long. If they felt justified in what they did what is there to be afraid of. Surely the jury will agree with them…or not.

 

[bluevioletfour]

One thing I noticed about the shooter is that 3-4 shots seems excessive, especially when considering how close to Liz her killer unfortunately. You would think that whole point of getting that close wasn’t just due to the model of the gun but also to shoot at least once, at most twice, and to make one of those shots a kill one. For example, by aiming specifically at a victim’s head, heart or stomach area. 4 shots not only increase the pain and harm a victim suffers but they also run the risk of being heard by residents and pedestrians in the area, particularly with a gun used without a silencer and in a relatively quiet neighborhood like that the Barrazas used to call home.

Liz, despite the fear and pain she was in, also able to fortunately to still let out a scream after getting shot. In particular, she was able to scream very loud thus increasing the chances of her alerting the neighbors to the danger she was in and getting help. To their own detriment, IMO it doesn’t apear like the killer anticipated that Liz or a gun shot victim in general would still be able to do that otherwise why not be more diligent about where they aim for? Why not goad Liz further into the back into the garage or into the house to try to muffle or decrease the sounds from spreading out? It goes without saying why commit this heinous crime in the first place, especially to someone like Liz? I cannot see any problem anyone could have with her that couldn’t just be worked out. But furthermore why shoot three her more times to cause further suffering, and risk to themselves when they could have ended it all with just one last “kill shot” instead of three? Yes, she could have still lived with such a shot but how do you live knowing that you basically tortured conscious person who did not want to die and spent their last few moments with you defenseless and screaming for their lives? Why wasn’t their any mercy in any of this? From my understanding they shot at her abdomen after aiming for her neck and head? Why? Why not aim at places to reduce consciousness so to make her death as painless and by reducing the amount of bullets, as quiet as possible? They stood over her as they shot at her so they had to know what they were doing as they shot at specific parts of her?

I am sorry for any and all graphic content in regards to Liz. My aim is not disrespect her or the sanctity of her person or what she and her family experienced as a result of her murder. I will delete if this comment is considered harmful. I wonder this because my family grew up in area with a lot of gun violence and I also lost a sibling to it. Liz’s awful shooting, and the justice denied her and her loved ones as the killers/ perps have not been identified, does make me question how much rage or hate did the killer themselves feel towards Liz to carry out the shooting the way they did, in particular with the number of bullets they shot at her, the fact they stood over her and none of the bullets were those typically guaranteed to end life, suffering or consciousness? Was needing to shoot her 3-4 times necessary or does it indicate that the shooter was an amateur? They managed to get Liz to look down for them to making a potential spot for them to aim vulnerable and in plain sight for them and yet they seemingly missed or ignored this spot altogether? Does this mean that they do not have good aim? Did the recoil further hinder them? Did they not know where to shoot? I imagine they must had a ton of adrenaline and nervousness running through them based on how Liz’s horrible murder was carried out? Were their hands or bodies shaking?

It even seems like when they run and how they slid over the front of their car that they realize in a panic how much time they cut off from their own escape based on the fact that they have turn back around to get to their established escape route. This IMO seems to show their panic caused them to make a mistake when they first pulled off hence them turning around and being spotted by cameras when they did so.

How much experience the shooter has with the gun? How often they actually practice shooting with it or even going to a gun range in general? Or was this their first time or at least first time holding a gun or perhaps their first time aiming it at someone? Did they mean to cause Liz further pain out of rage or hate or was it their own inexperience and mental blockade that caused them to carry out their horrific crimes in the way they did?

It seems they prepared enough to plan their route and identify the house, plot an escape route, familiarize themselves with the neighborhood and perhaps also identify the Liz’s and SB’s cars the night before all while also having their brights on to help shield their license plates from detection on neighbor’s cameras but the one thing they couldn’t anticipate was the mental blockage or emotional turmoil or tension and experience that would take hold of them.

IMO Those 4 shots did cost the killer. The first one didn’t hinder Liz’s ability to scream, the time to shoot all 4 probably caused the killer to become pressed for time causing them to panic and make a mistake leading them to drive by twice, why police and EMT were alerted so quickly, why they had to run back to the vehicle from a greater distance so cameras could get a longer recording of their image and wby police were able to at least some of the killer’s early escape route on Kuykendal.

Also, Liz was a fighter. Those four shots did not immediately kill her. So in from the killer’s perspective were any of those four shots worth the risks? With today’s technology and medicine it is getting harder to predict one’s outcome. Liz could have survived them (she should have survived them bc her killer had no right to take her life from her).

MOO but one shot people could probably ignore, especially if the victim immediately experiences LOC and is unable to scream. Neighbors and pedestrians might excuse it for a car backfiring or something. 911 might not have been called. 4 though, not so much. Especially when the first one did not incapacitate the victim’s ability to also shout or scream and all 3 proceeding shots guaranteed that the shooter lost time but not that Liz would lose her life, she fought for as long as she could to hold on at home and at the hospital.

So again why 4 shots? Why not 1 or 2? What was going on in the killer’s mind while they committed this crime and could it help identify or profile them?

Justice Liz Barraza and her family she deserved better. No one should be subjected the violence and horror she suffered through. Her killer was not entitled to her life no matter what they or any co-conspirators were going through. If they felt so justified in killing her than give her family their day in court, let them hold you accountable according to the law, speak up, make your point and give them the closure you denied them for so long. If they felt justified in what they did what is there to be afraid of. Surely the jury will agree with them…or not.

To me, this was a crime of passion. Someone hated her enough to shoot her in the open. I just don't understand why someone this brazen hasn't been caught after all this time. The grief her parents live every day...

 

[Cryptic]

The concept of having a garage sale on a Friday has never made sense to me. In my neighborhood, people have them on weekends only, so that it's convenient for working people. That's when there's foot traffic. People have the time to look.

There are casual garage sale browsers and then there are.... pro and semi pro pickers picking for re-sale profit.

You are 100% right about weekends and causal garage shoppers. But.... the picker pros and semi pros want to get to the offerings early.

Some picker guys and girls are semi retired and can shop anytime. Others have jobs, but have gone through the effort to arrange their work schedules to keep Friday and Saturday mornings clear for their treasure hunting side business.

Likewise, some garage sale hosts market towards pickers. These vendors want to sell out early on Saturday to have the weekend free. So, they start early Friday to get the pro / semi pro pickers. Re sale pickers also have more cash and will buy in bulk. Likewise, sales to them are often fast and with less haggling.

 

[arielilane]

One thing I noticed about the shooter is that 3-4 shots seems excessive, especially when considering how close to Liz her killer unfortunately. You would think that whole point of getting that close wasn’t just due to the model of the gun but also to shoot at least once, at most twice, and to make one of those shots a kill one. For example, by aiming specifically at a victim’s head, heart or stomach area. 4 shots not only increase the pain and harm a victim suffers but they also run the risk of being heard by residents and pedestrians in the area, particularly with a gun used without a silencer and in a relatively quiet neighborhood like that the Barrazas used to call home.

Liz, despite the fear and pain she was in, also able to fortunately to still let out a scream after getting shot. In particular, she was able to scream very loud thus increasing the chances of her alerting the neighbors to the danger she was in and getting help. To their own detriment, IMO it doesn’t apear like the killer anticipated that Liz or a gun shot victim in general would still be able to do that otherwise why not be more diligent about where they aim for? Why not goad Liz further into the back into the garage or into the house to try to muffle or decrease the sounds from spreading out? It goes without saying why commit this heinous crime in the first place, especially to someone like Liz? I cannot see any problem anyone could have with her that couldn’t just be worked out. But furthermore why shoot three her more times to cause further suffering, and risk to themselves when they could have ended it all with just one last “kill shot” instead of three? Yes, she could have still lived with such a shot but how do you live knowing that you basically tortured conscious person who did not want to die and spent their last few moments with you defenseless and screaming for their lives? Why wasn’t their any mercy in any of this? From my understanding they shot at her abdomen after aiming for her neck and head? Why? Why not aim at places to reduce consciousness so to make her death as painless and by reducing the amount of bullets, as quiet as possible? They stood over her as they shot at her so they had to know what they were doing as they shot at specific parts of her?

I am sorry for any and all graphic content in regards to Liz. My aim is not disrespect her or the sanctity of her person or what she and her family experienced as a result of her murder. I will delete if this comment is considered harmful. I wonder this because my family grew up in area with a lot of gun violence and I also lost a sibling to it. Liz’s awful shooting, and the justice denied her and her loved ones as the killers/ perps have not been identified, does make me question how much rage or hate did the killer themselves feel towards Liz to carry out the shooting the way they did, in particular with the number of bullets they shot at her, the fact they stood over her and none of the bullets were those typically guaranteed to end life, suffering or consciousness? Was needing to shoot her 3-4 times necessary or does it indicate that the shooter was an amateur? They managed to get Liz to look down for them to making a potential spot for them to aim vulnerable and in plain sight for them and yet they seemingly missed or ignored this spot altogether? Does this mean that they do not have good aim? Did the recoil further hinder them? Did they not know where to shoot? I imagine they must had a ton of adrenaline and nervousness running through them based on how Liz’s horrible murder was carried out? Were their hands or bodies shaking?

It even seems like when they run and how they slid over the front of their car that they realize in a panic how much time they cut off from their own escape based on the fact that they have turn back around to get to their established escape route. This IMO seems to show their panic caused them to make a mistake when they first pulled off hence them turning around and being spotted by cameras when they did so.

How much experience the shooter has with the gun? How often they actually practice shooting with it or even going to a gun range in general? Or was this their first time or at least first time holding a gun or perhaps their first time aiming it at someone? Did they mean to cause Liz further pain out of rage or hate or was it their own inexperience and mental blockade that caused them to carry out their horrific crimes in the way they did?

It seems they prepared enough to plan their route and identify the house, plot an escape route, familiarize themselves with the neighborhood and perhaps also identify the Liz’s and SB’s cars the night before all while also having their brights on to help shield their license plates from detection on neighbor’s cameras but the one thing they couldn’t anticipate was the mental blockage or emotional turmoil or tension and experience that would take hold of them.

IMO Those 4 shots did cost the killer. The first one didn’t hinder Liz’s ability to scream, the time to shoot all 4 probably caused the killer to become pressed for time causing them to panic and make a mistake leading them to drive by twice, why police and EMT were alerted so quickly, why they had to run back to the vehicle from a greater distance so cameras could get a longer recording of their image and wby police were able to at least some of the killer’s early escape route on Kuykendal.

Also, Liz was a fighter. Those four shots did not immediately kill her. So in from the killer’s perspective were any of those four shots worth the risks? With today’s technology and medicine it is getting harder to predict one’s outcome. Liz could have survived them (she should have survived them bc her killer had no right to take her life from her).

MOO but one shot people could probably ignore, especially if the victim immediately experiences LOC and is unable to scream. Neighbors and pedestrians might excuse it for a car backfiring or something. 911 might not have been called. 4 though, not so much. Especially when the first one did not incapacitate the victim’s ability to also shout or scream and all 3 proceeding shots guaranteed that the shooter lost time but not that Liz would lose her life, she fought for as long as she could to hold on at home and at the hospital.

So again why 4 shots? Why not 1 or 2? What was going on in the killer’s mind while they committed this crime and could it help identify or profile them?

Justice Liz Barraza and her family she deserved better. No one should be subjected the violence and horror she suffered through. Her killer was not entitled to her life no matter what they or any co-conspirators were going through. If they felt so justified in killing her than give her family their day in court, let them hold you accountable according to the law, speak up, make your point and give them the closure you denied them for so long. If they felt justified in what they did what is there to be afraid of. Surely the jury will agree with them…or not.

My thoughts are the shooter hated LB. Perhaps angry with her about something, this person is deranged. A real danger to society.

I supposed the shooter wanted LB dead for a while, wanted to embarrass her, and knowing (if shooter knew about the sale) about the garage sale took that opportunity since she would be out their setting up alone. But, it wasn’t known that LB would be alone until the night before the shooting.

Apparently, shooter wanted LB to know why she was going to die that moment. Shooter is cold blooded, most likely no remorse, and feels justified in their actions.

Curious if the shooter actually drove the truck or got in the back seat, behind the driver?

Shooter better hope the gun is never located.

All of this is speculation, no factual information.

I am so sorry for the loss of your sibling, the pain will never subside. All the best to you.

 

[AppleTreeGreen]

Someone hated her enough to shoot her in the open. I just don't understand why someone this brazen hasn't been caught after all this time.

Something that your comment just made me think about more is about Nissan Frontier truck. I agree that the truck was likely borrowed and IMO if the truck’s actual owner is from the Tomball or Houston area it was likely destroyed, sold far away or abandoned in an obscure area where it would be hard to find. Unfortunately too the driver used the smart trick of putting their brights on so that the glare would block visual of the license plates.

However, on the other hand, I have to wonder why that car? Why that truck specifically? It does lead me to question if it is possible that both the driver and the truck are from another area outside the Tomball and Houston area. IIRC the Nissan Frontier is not popularly driven or bought in the previously mentioned city areas above. So where are they popular? Which Texan cities are they most popular and which Texans cities are nearest to Tomball and find that Nissan Frontier 4x4 are popular among its residents? Which cities have some personal connection to Liz and SB, either through friends, clubs, school, family, strife or enemies?

Maybe one of the reasons the truck hasn’t been found is because the actual location it is from and regularly driven it doesn’t stand out?

MOO, but from my own perspective, between the four hours that the truck driver scouts the neighborhood and the house at 2:30 AM and comes back around 6:45 AM the driver has picked up some type of long white or light-colored material and laid it on the bed of the vehicle. What if the idea of using the truck and getting that material was to give the killer a good alibi.

For example, they could make make it look like either the driver was making a pickup delivery for work, which may be common service needed among some construction and renovation companies, hence picking up that stuff in the back to drop off later? Or they were picking up the material in Tomball for themselves to bring back home to another city with them? Either way Tomball would serve as the pickup location so they would have a valid reason to be there, they get the stuff in the back super early, then drive by Liz’s and SB’s home to commit the crime before fleeing back to the highway via Kuykendale Road to make it back to whatever town/city they came from to make the delivery or get back home? Hypothetically again whatever city they end up the presence Nissan Frontier on the road would be normal. In this scenario too, the driver doesn’t have to be the truck owner. They could have borrowed it under the allusion they needed the bed to fit whatever that material they put in the back or accessed it via their job if it is a work vehicle. Chances are though that the killer wasn’t even honest about taking truck to Tomball that morning. They could have said they were picking up the material from anywhere. MOO but unless the truck had a tracker on it, the truck’s actual owner, wouldn’t even be aware of which areas or cities they were located in or even suspect the person that borrowed their car.

In this hypothetical theory to I wonder too not only what that stuff is in the bed but where in Tomball did they get it? Lowe’s? Home Depot? A warehouse? Storage? Can LE identify it, particularly if they clean up the video image? Can a witness or seller identify it or recall the sale via their records even if they can’t identify or recognize the driver? If they can track sales or movements of said material that morning using CCTV, interviewing nearby sellers or manufacturers? Is there a certain producer or manufacturer that makes material that looks like one in the truck and could only be found in Tomball or is likely found in Tomball compared to other city or suburban areas?

How did the driver/killer learn that trick with the brights and using the glare to block license plates from being seen on camera? Is there a certain profession, affiliation, group that would know that one? Based on CCTV losing visual of them, whoever the driver was also knew enough about Tomball to know which roads to take to avoid traffic cameras so they at least drove there before? Why would they need to know that before Liz’s murder? Were they used to speeding and getting stopped so they looked for a route to avoid LE and traffic cameras? Is that road they used to escape also the same one they used to sleep? Since it is often illegal to do so maybe they hid there for the four hours they waited before heading back to the Barraza’s neighborhood? Maybe scour old tickets, LE complaints, particularly related to out of town delivery drivers, particularly do long haul and raw material that require flat bed trucks or open space in back, even if not in the same car at all?

JMO/speculation

 

[Charlot123]

One thing I noticed about the shooter is that 3-4 shots seems excessive, especially when considering how close to Liz her killer unfortunately. You would think that whole point of getting that close wasn’t just due to the model of the gun but also to shoot at least once, at most twice, and to make one of those shots a kill one. For example, by aiming specifically at a victim’s head, heart or stomach area. 4 shots not only increase the pain and harm a victim suffers but they also run the risk of being heard by residents and pedestrians in the area, particularly with a gun used without a silencer and in a relatively quiet neighborhood like that the Barrazas used to call home.

Liz, despite the fear and pain she was in, also able to fortunately to still let out a scream after getting shot. In particular, she was able to scream very loud thus increasing the chances of her alerting the neighbors to the danger she was in and getting help. To their own detriment, IMO it doesn’t apear like the killer anticipated that Liz or a gun shot victim in general would still be able to do that otherwise why not be more diligent about where they aim for? Why not goad Liz further into the back into the garage or into the house to try to muffle or decrease the sounds from spreading out? It goes without saying why commit this heinous crime in the first place, especially to someone like Liz? I cannot see any problem anyone could have with her that couldn’t just be worked out. But furthermore why shoot three her more times to cause further suffering, and risk to themselves when they could have ended it all with just one last “kill shot” instead of three? Yes, she could have still lived with such a shot but how do you live knowing that you basically tortured conscious person who did not want to die and spent their last few moments with you defenseless and screaming for their lives? Why wasn’t their any mercy in any of this? From my understanding they shot at her abdomen after aiming for her neck and head? Why? Why not aim at places to reduce consciousness so to make her death as painless and by reducing the amount of bullets, as quiet as possible? They stood over her as they shot at her so they had to know what they were doing as they shot at specific parts of her?

I am sorry for any and all graphic content in regards to Liz. My aim is not disrespect her or the sanctity of her person or what she and her family experienced as a result of her murder. I will delete if this comment is considered harmful. I wonder this because my family grew up in area with a lot of gun violence and I also lost a sibling to it. Liz’s awful shooting, and the justice denied her and her loved ones as the killers/ perps have not been identified, does make me question how much rage or hate did the killer themselves feel towards Liz to carry out the shooting the way they did, in particular with the number of bullets they shot at her, the fact they stood over her and none of the bullets were those typically guaranteed to end life, suffering or consciousness? Was needing to shoot her 3-4 times necessary or does it indicate that the shooter was an amateur? They managed to get Liz to look down for them to making a potential spot for them to aim vulnerable and in plain sight for them and yet they seemingly missed or ignored this spot altogether? Does this mean that they do not have good aim? Did the recoil further hinder them? Did they not know where to shoot? I imagine they must had a ton of adrenaline and nervousness running through them based on how Liz’s horrible murder was carried out? Were their hands or bodies shaking?

It even seems like when they run and how they slid over the front of their car that they realize in a panic how much time they cut off from their own escape based on the fact that they have turn back around to get to their established escape route. This IMO seems to show their panic caused them to make a mistake when they first pulled off hence them turning around and being spotted by cameras when they did so.

How much experience the shooter has with the gun? How often they actually practice shooting with it or even going to a gun range in general? Or was this their first time or at least first time holding a gun or perhaps their first time aiming it at someone? Did they mean to cause Liz further pain out of rage or hate or was it their own inexperience and mental blockade that caused them to carry out their horrific crimes in the way they did?

It seems they prepared enough to plan their route and identify the house, plot an escape route, familiarize themselves with the neighborhood and perhaps also identify the Liz’s and SB’s cars the night before all while also having their brights on to help shield their license plates from detection on neighbor’s cameras but the one thing they couldn’t anticipate was the mental blockage or emotional turmoil or tension and experience that would take hold of them.

IMO Those 4 shots did cost the killer. The first one didn’t hinder Liz’s ability to scream, the time to shoot all 4 probably caused the killer to become pressed for time causing them to panic and make a mistake leading them to drive by twice, why police and EMT were alerted so quickly, why they had to run back to the vehicle from a greater distance so cameras could get a longer recording of their image and wby police were able to at least some of the killer’s early escape route on Kuykendal.

Also, Liz was a fighter. Those four shots did not immediately kill her. So in from the killer’s perspective were any of those four shots worth the risks? With today’s technology and medicine it is getting harder to predict one’s outcome. Liz could have survived them (she should have survived them bc her killer had no right to take her life from her).

MOO but one shot people could probably ignore, especially if the victim immediately experiences LOC and is unable to scream. Neighbors and pedestrians might excuse it for a car backfiring or something. 911 might not have been called. 4 though, not so much. Especially when the first one did not incapacitate the victim’s ability to also shout or scream and all 3 proceeding shots guaranteed that the shooter lost time but not that Liz would lose her life, she fought for as long as she could to hold on at home and at the hospital.

So again why 4 shots? Why not 1 or 2? What was going on in the killer’s mind while they committed this crime and could it help identify or profile them?

Justice Liz Barraza and her family she deserved better. No one should be subjected the violence and horror she suffered through. Her killer was not entitled to her life no matter what they or any co-conspirators were going through. If they felt so justified in killing her than give her family their day in court, let them hold you accountable according to the law, speak up, make your point and give them the closure you denied them for so long. If they felt justified in what they did what is there to be afraid of. Surely the jury will agree with them…or not.

I don’t know what books the younger generation reads, but in my time, any spy novel, even true history crime, would mention “execution-style”, or “control shot” at the head. So I assume the person either read books or played games with this scenario. I think the person was in the process of training how to do it, but not too experienced, so it looks like “an overkill”.

 

[AppleTreeGreen]

I don’t know what books the younger generation reads, but in my time, any spy novel, even true history crime, would mention “execution-style”, or “control shot” at the head. So I assume the person either read books or played games with this scenario. I think the person was in the process of training how to do it, but not too experienced, so it looks like “an overkill”.

True, I think books and games based on the spy-genre, true crime history and trying to immerse participants into the practice of shooting a firearm virtually could play a role too in this perp’s actions. I agree also that they may have been in the midst of training but still lacked the skill and experience to properly aim their weapon leading to excessive violence.

I guess originally I was thinking along the lines too of the perp’s own interactions and experience with street and gang culture since victims of gang related shootings are more likely to suffer a occipital or assassination-type gunshot wound to the head than a victim of a non-gang related shooting. A study on gang violence Baltimore has indicated too that gang members often strategize their conflicts with oppositional gangs in their area by focusing on enhancing the lethality of their gunshots. One way they do this is by purposely aiming for the head, as opposed to other body parts like the legs or stomach, because gunshot-related TBIs unfortunately have a 90% fatality rate. In Baltimore, for example, the rate of gun violence may be decreasing whereas the rate of fatality due to it is still high due to this trend. The reasoning for this new focus to shoot to kill and being mindful where one aim is to reduce the chances of relation or being given up the cops. Not only across the country are gang affiliated gunmen shooting more at the head they are getting bigger caliber guns and are more ruthless in that they shoot to kill. If they can’t aim for the head, they will shoot multiple times, at 9-10 times in Baltimore and NJ, with the end goal that their victim’s pulverized bodies will still likely succumb to their injuries. It appears the rules and trends are changing and that cities like Nashville, NYC, LA and the South are following Baltimore’s patterns in that gunmen are no longer satisfied with knowing a rival gang member has been incapacitated by a gunshot. It appears now, it is better of showing a rival mercy and leaving them bleeding and injured but breathing, shooters are more likely to execute and shoot to kill a rival, preferably with a shot to the cranium, than run the risk of letting them recover and snitch unfortunately.

It may be possible that the shooter was influenced by street and/or gang culture (including movies or music-even mob or organized crime ones about such topics) or has embraced a similar attitude towards their intended victims because they unfortunately did not want to run the risk of Liz surviving and informing the police.

I agree with other commenters that shooter may have taken so many shots due to rage and masochism in that they wanted to extend Liz’s pain as horrible as that sound. After all, she fell after the first shot. With the advantage of standing right over her they could have shown mercy then with a headshot but still it seems they may shot her in the abdomen and chest area first as though just to disturbingly extend her pain, IMO, despite the risk to themselves.

I dont know but their decision I’m carrying out this horrible crime as they brutally murdered Liz Barraza is just something that kept standing out to me. That is just me though or my speculation, MOO and it could be nothing or unimportant.

Liz though deserves even further justice and acknowledgment for the undue fear, harm and suffering forced upon her by her heinous killer.

Shoot to Kill

Baltimore is one of the most lethal cities in the United States. How did we get there?

data.baltimoresun.com

Gunshot Wound Head Trauma

Gunshot wounds to the head have become a leading cause of traumatic brain injury (TBI) in many urban areas in the U.S. due, in part, to a surge in gang

www.aans.org

Gunshot wounds to the head: gang- and non-gang-related injuries and outcomes - PubMed

Significant differences were found between gang- and non-gang-related shooting victims in terms of demographics, entrance site and transit time. No difference was found between injury time, survival and outcome between gang and non-gang populations.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Penetrating craniocerebral injury resultant from gunshot wounds: gang-related injury in children and adolescents - PubMed

We prospectively and retrospectively reviewed a series of 780 patients who presented to the University of Southern California/Los Angeles County Medical Center with a diagnosis of gunshot wound to the brain during an 8-year period. Of these, 105 were children ranging in age from 6 months to 17...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[arielilane]

-- Did someone get an all clear?
-- Did someone get notice, she's be all alone on driveway, go early?
-- Let's go?
-- It's on?
-- Reason for 2:00 am drive-by? Get familiar w/layout of neighborhood?

Speculative. moo.

 

[Ajs1004]

Justice for Liz

 

[Charlot123]

True, I think books and games based on the spy-genre, true crime history and trying to immerse participants into the practice of shooting a firearm virtually could play a role too in this perp’s actions. I agree also that they may have been in the midst of training but still lacked the skill and experience to properly aim their weapon leading to excessive violence.

I guess originally I was thinking along the lines too of the perp’s own interactions and experience with street and gang culture since victims of gang related shootings are more likely to suffer a occipital or assassination-type gunshot wound to the head than a victim of a non-gang related shooting. A study on gang violence Baltimore has indicated too that gang members often strategize their conflicts with oppositional gangs in their area by focusing on enhancing the lethality of their gunshots. One way they do this is by purposely aiming for the head, as opposed to other body parts like the legs or stomach, because gunshot-related TBIs unfortunately have a 90% fatality rate. In Baltimore, for example, the rate of gun violence may be decreasing whereas the rate of fatality due to it is still high due to this trend. The reasoning for this new focus to shoot to kill and being mindful where one aim is to reduce the chances of relation or being given up the cops. Not only across the country are gang affiliated gunmen shooting more at the head they are getting bigger caliber guns and are more ruthless in that they shoot to kill. If they can’t aim for the head, they will shoot multiple times, at 9-10 times in Baltimore and NJ, with the end goal that their victim’s pulverized bodies will still likely succumb to their injuries. It appears the rules and trends are changing and that cities like Nashville, NYC, LA and the South are following Baltimore’s patterns in that gunmen are no longer satisfied with knowing a rival gang member has been incapacitated by a gunshot. It appears now, it is better of showing a rival mercy and leaving them bleeding and injured but breathing, shooters are more likely to execute and shoot to kill a rival, preferably with a shot to the cranium, than run the risk of letting them recover and snitch unfortunately.

It may be possible that the shooter was influenced by street and/or gang culture (including movies or music-even mob or organized crime ones about such topics) or has embraced a similar attitude towards their intended victims because they unfortunately did not want to run the risk of Liz surviving and informing the police.

I agree with other commenters that shooter may have taken so many shots due to rage and masochism in that they wanted to extend Liz’s pain as horrible as that sound. After all, she fell after the first shot. With the advantage of standing right over her they could have shown mercy then with a headshot but still it seems they may shot her in the abdomen and chest area first as though just to disturbingly extend her pain, IMO, despite the risk to themselves.

I dont know but their decision I’m carrying out this horrible crime as they brutally murdered Liz Barraza is just something that kept standing out to me. That is just me though or my speculation, MOO and it could be nothing or unimportant.

Liz though deserves even further justice and acknowledgment for the undue fear, harm and suffering forced upon her by her heinous killer.

Shoot to Kill

Baltimore is one of the most lethal cities in the United States. How did we get there?

data.baltimoresun.com

Gunshot Wound Head Trauma

Gunshot wounds to the head have become a leading cause of traumatic brain injury (TBI) in many urban areas in the U.S. due, in part, to a surge in gang

www.aans.org

Gunshot wounds to the head: gang- and non-gang-related injuries and outcomes - PubMed

Significant differences were found between gang- and non-gang-related shooting victims in terms of demographics, entrance site and transit time. No difference was found between injury time, survival and outcome between gang and non-gang populations.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Penetrating craniocerebral injury resultant from gunshot wounds: gang-related injury in children and adolescents - PubMed

We prospectively and retrospectively reviewed a series of 780 patients who presented to the University of Southern California/Los Angeles County Medical Center with a diagnosis of gunshot wound to the brain during an 8-year period. Of these, 105 were children ranging in age from 6 months to 17...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I was re-watching the Godfather, and read that some of the characters are now in games. One of them (I don’t remember who) is shot in the heart, (somewhere else) and in the mouth. I forgot what the mouth meant for mafia (talking? Being a traitor? Gossiping?). Now I wonder if the assassin was interested in Cosa Nostra or perhaps watched the game and tried to recreate the episode. After all, the stomach for a not so competent shooter could mean, “the heart”. The mouth is attracting attention in this context.

P. S. It is from the youth of Vito Corleone, when a local gangster Fanucci demands a cut of the profit. “Vito enters Fanucci's building and shoots him in the chest, face and mouth, killing him.”

Now I have to see if Fanucci character is in a game, not my cup of tea…

 

[Blackflags]

Even if it was a burner phone or device with no SIM card, they still have MAC addresses than can be traced back to the purchaser under most circumstances.

I sometimes lean towards the idea that the object the shooter was showing Liz in their left had was a phone or tablet that was a burner or was in airplane mode.

You can 100% purchase a burner phone and provide a fake name. In this case, a MAC address isn’t going to be useful.

 

[lonewanderer]

You can 100% purchase a burner phone and provide a fake name. In this case, a MAC address isn’t going to be useful.

If it can be used to verify it connected to ther Sergio Ring doorbell, I think it could at least be a tool to determine if someone was connected to their WiFi.

Any information about this could lead to more. Where it was manufactured and sold, possibly where it was activated, other phones in close proximity of it (like LISK) etc.

 

[arielilane]

Ive said it many times previously to look at the earlier pages of an (first 20 pages) investigation... is it possible the killer of Liz Barraza [ex: Delphi case] is right there and has been overlooked? moo