GUILTY TX - Ethan Couch 'Affluenza Teen' DUI driver who killed four gets probation, 2013 #2

[Everyday Grace]

Very interesting, Ordinary Grace. This is the arrest affidavit - their salvo over the bow - and I'll be very interested in how this shakes out in court.

These are accusations, and not convictions.

Here's what I understand about probation violations, and I think you can probably google it and verify it. If the violation isn't a crime itself - that is, if an ordinary citizen did the deed, it wouldn't be a crime, it is also not a crime as a probationer. It's an administrative
problem, and allows the courts to act on their bargain that you swore you wouldn't do those things which otherwise you could legally do.

For example, if you are on probation and told not to drink and you have to remain in college OR be full time employed. And then you flunk out of college. That's not a crime for another person. Or you are told you can't leave the county, and you do. That's not a crime for an average person, so again, it's not an additional "crime" for a probationer. It does allow the court to come down harder on the offender for the original offense, but the probationer won't be charged with the "crime" of leaving the county. This seems like a very fine line, but it's still a line.

This isn't as if he committed a crime while on probation - I don't think you can prove the drinking, no one breathalized him. And leaving the country isn't of itself a crime. It's a violation of probation. Had he been arrested for drunk driving, or assault, or dealing drugs, etc., that would be a crime and not just an administrative violation of his compact with the court.

Again, I'll be very interested in how this all wends its way through the courts. We've all seen arresting affidavits that are horse hockey.

Thanks again for doing the legwork.

So the takeaway in all this is, his infraction is in fact, not a felony IMHO. That's why the talking heads are talking about a max of 120 days in jail for this violation. In the future, if you google his convictions, there will be no where that says "leaving the country" or "failure to show up for parole officer visits". Because they're not crimes.

I understand what you are saying about probation violations in themselves not necessarily being criminal actions. I get that.

However, probation and its terms are punishment. In Ethan's case, for a felony.

Attempting to avoid accountability for probation violations is attempting to avoid punishment.

Hindering punishment of another is part of what she is charged with at this stage and is covered in the statute.

Of course the arrest affidavit is not a conviction.

Some of the other information in the affidavit and some of yesterday's testimony suggests to me, though, that the state has witnesses who have already provided information as to Tonya's intent.

That alleged intent being to prevent Ethan from being arrested or detained and to help him avoid punishment for the underlying criminal conviction for intoxication manslaughter.

I can't see a jury (or a judge is she goes that route) buying that she went to Mexico with Ethan for any other purpose.

I doubt "Fred stress" or a "holiday lark" will fly if the state does indeed have witnesses with direct knowledge that will testify otherwise as to her intent.

Agree to disagree on these points, though.

 

[faw720]

Here's another way to look at it. He is not entitled to a jury trial for this behavior, as I understand it. He's not being charged with a crime. He's already had his crime adjudicated. He agreed to certain terms, and he violated them. Now, his case will go back to the original court that adjudicated his crime initially (intoxication manslaughter) and decide what to do with him due to this violation of his terms. But there won't be a legal finding of a new crime, and so, no right to a jury.

His mother, on the other hand, IS entitled to a jury trial because she's accused of a crime - the crime of hindering apprehension.

And just where is there going to be a jury that will find her innocent of a crime????????? Mars????

 

[MsJosie]

http://www.madd.org/get-involved/sign-the-petition-to-fight-affluenza.html

30,165

30,266

 

[nrdsb4]

It will be very interesting to see how these cases go. Of course, it would be great to see the book thrown at both of these individuals. However, as we all know, a really good lawyer can mitigate a lot of legal pain.

 

[faw720]

So they are not saying she has no money, simply no access to her money.



It will be interesting to see if she complies with the bond restrictions.

http://www.wfaa.com/story/news/loca...nya-couch-requesting-bond-reduction/78637208/

I don't think there's any way she can comply with bond restrictions. Right now she's under house arrest with practically no freedom. She will have a more comfy bed & as much food as she wants but that is about the only thing better than being in jail. Can you imagine being confined to your home 24/7 except for meetings with your doctor or attorney?

Her attorneys may try to get her off for having mental issues, but if it is ruled that she is unfit to stand trial, shouldn't she then be transferred to a mental institution? A mental institution might make jail look like a more attractive option.

 

[JeannaT]

I don't think there's any way she can comply with bond restrictions. Right now she's under house arrest with practically no freedom. She will have a more comfy bed & as much food as she wants but that is about the only thing better than being in jail. Can you imagine being confined to your home 24/7 except for meetings with your doctor or attorney?

Her attorneys may try to get her off for having mental issues, but if it is ruled that she is unfit to stand trial, shouldn't she then be transferred to a mental institution? A mental institution might make jail look like a more attractive option.

I think she'll comply, with the possible exception of the no alcohol restriction. I don't know if her ankle monitoring device has an alcohol censor (they have those available in Tarrant County) and if not, I think it might be easy for her to chance it and drink. Of course, that would require her son providing alcohol and I don't sense he would. I will say, being held captive in a loved one's home is 100% better than being in jail, where you have no privacy whatsoever, no respect, limited access to visits and phone calls, really awful food, etc. I think she has a good chance of complying.

Does anyone know how long this will be, approximately? Until her case is adjudicated, so maybe as long as a year?

 

[Irisha]

Very interesting, Ordinary Grace. This is the arrest affidavit - their salvo over the bow - and I'll be very interested in how this shakes out in court.

These are accusations, and not convictions.

Here's what I understand about probation violations, and I think you can probably google it and verify it. If the violation isn't a crime itself - that is, if an ordinary citizen did the deed, it wouldn't be a crime, it is also not a crime as a probationer. It's an administrative
problem, and allows the courts to act on their bargain that you swore you wouldn't do those things which otherwise you could legally do.

Snipped By ME

Her name is Everyday Grace, but you knew that. Psycho's Mama's going to be hard pressed to find 12 people who will believe any of her defense crap. Tonya knew what his probation rules were. They both deserve everything they get.:moo:

 

[faw720]

I think she'll comply, with the possible exception of the no alcohol restriction. I don't know if her ankle monitoring device has an alcohol censor (they have those available in Tarrant County) and if not, I think it might be easy for her to chance it and drink. Of course, that would require her son providing alcohol and I don't sense he would. I will say, being held captive in a loved one's home is 100% better than being in jail, where you have no privacy whatsoever, no respect, limited access to visits and phone calls, really awful food, etc. I think she has a good chance of complying.

Does anyone know how long this will be, approximately? Until her case is adjudicated, so maybe as long as a year?

I'm pretty sure the judge said "for the time being"..........whatever that means.

 

[nrdsb4]

Psycho's Mama's going to be hard pressed to find 12 people who will believe any of her defense crap.

We can only hope, but stranger things have happened.

 

[MsJosie]

She is now out on bond. What is the next step for her as far as the court system, a trial, what kind, how far in the future would it be, etc? Would prosecution wait until the son's issue is resolved in Mexico, I dont think so....but? Thanks

 

[nrdsb4]

Her attorneys may try to get her off for having mental issues, but if it is ruled that she is unfit to stand trial, shouldn't she then be transferred to a mental institution? A mental institution might make jail look like a more attractive option.

I will be surprised if she is ruled unfit to stand trial. She's not psychotic or in any way legally incompetent, from what I understand. And though I don't believe she is very intelligent, I've not read anything to indicate her IQ is so low as be considered in the "mental retardation" category. But we shall see.

All of this will be covered nonstop in our local news, I'm sure.

 

[Everyday Grace]

Here's another way to look at it. He is not entitled to a jury trial for this behavior, as I understand it. He's not being charged with a crime. He's already had his crime adjudicated. He agreed to certain terms, and he violated them. Now, his case will go back to the original court that adjudicated his crime initially (intoxication manslaughter) and decide what to do with him due to this violation of his terms. But there won't be a legal finding of a new crime, and so, no right to a jury.

His mother, on the other hand, IS entitled to a jury trial because she's accused of a crime - the crime of hindering apprehension.

Nowhere in the arrest warrant or affidavit does is say her intent was to hinder arrest or detention and prosecution of another.

Nor does it accuse her with the intent to hinder arrest or detention and conviction of another.

It accuses her of the intent to hinder arrest or detention and punishment of another.

 

[pappa rob]

Very interesting, Ordinary Grace. This is the arrest affidavit - their salvo over the bow - and I'll be very interested in how this shakes out in court.

These are accusations, and not convictions.

Here's what I understand about probation violations, and I think you can probably google it and verify it. If the violation isn't a crime itself - that is, if an ordinary citizen did the deed, it wouldn't be a crime, it is also not a crime as a probationer. It's an administrative
problem, and allows the courts to act on their bargain that you swore you wouldn't do those things which otherwise you could legally do.

For example, if you are on probation and told not to drink and you have to remain in college OR be full time employed. And then you flunk out of college. That's not a crime for another person. Or you are told you can't leave the county, and you do. That's not a crime for an average person, so again, it's not an additional "crime" for a probationer. It does allow the court to come down harder on the offender for the original offense, but the probationer won't be charged with the "crime" of leaving the county. This seems like a very fine line, but it's still a line.

This isn't as if he committed a crime while on probation - I don't think you can prove the drinking, no one breathalized him. And leaving the country isn't of itself a crime. It's a violation of probation. Had he been arrested for drunk driving, or assault, or dealing drugs, etc., that would be a crime and not just an administrative violation of his compact with the court.

Again, I'll be very interested in how this all wends its way through the courts. We've all seen arresting affidavits that are horse hockey.

Thanks again for doing the legwork.

So the takeaway in all this is, his infraction is in fact, not a felony IMHO. That's why the talking heads are talking about a max of 120 days in jail for this violation. In the future, if you google his convictions, there will be no where that says "leaving the country" or "failure to show up for parole officer visits". Because they're not crimes.

I'll admit right now that I've not looked at his terms of probation, but normally one is forbidden to go to bars or attend parties where alcohol is served.
Here's a link to a Texas juvenile probation form. http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LE...ntid=778/RK=0/RS=Oe8fprQC7P6E2UsmmM36Yzhi19w-

 

[faw720]

I think she'll comply, with the possible exception of the no alcohol restriction. I don't know if her ankle monitoring device has an alcohol censor (they have those available in Tarrant County) and if not, I think it might be easy for her to chance it and drink. Of course, that would require her son providing alcohol and I don't sense he would. I will say, being held captive in a loved one's home is 100% better than being in jail, where you have no privacy whatsoever, no respect, limited access to visits and phone calls, really awful food, etc. I think she has a good chance of complying.

Does anyone know how long this will be, approximately? Until her case is adjudicated, so maybe as long as a year?

I'm afraid her son has a tiger by the tail............he just doesn't know it yet. I hope that trying to help his mom doesn't cause him grief but I'm afraid it will.

 

[RickshawFan]

I understand what you are saying about probation violations in themselves not necessarily being criminal actions. I get that.

However, probation and its terms are punishment. In Ethan's case, for a felony.

Attempting to avoid accountability for probation violations is attempting to avoid punishment.

Hindering punishment of another is part of what she is charged with at this stage and is covered in the statute.

Of course the arrest affidavit is not a conviction.

Some of the other information in the affidavit and some of yesterday's testimony suggests to me, though, that the state has witnesses who have already provided information as to Tonya's intent.

That alleged intent being to prevent Ethan from being arrested or detained and to help him avoid punishment for the underlying criminal conviction for intoxication manslaughter.

I can't see a jury (or a judge is she goes that route) buying that she went to Mexico with Ethan for any other purpose.

I doubt "Fred stress" or a "holiday lark" will fly if the state does indeed have witnesses with direct knowledge that will testify otherwise as to her intent.

Agree to disagree on these points, though.

Add to this.....TC sure wasn't turning herself or her son in when she knew they were being sought by authorities.

 

[LinasK]

Do you really think that Mexico wants her any more than we do?

Money talks in Mexico, and that's one thing she doesn't have a shortage of. She's gonna go be with Ethan even if she can't spring him. What would he do if he actually had to be without her and grow up???

 

[JeannaT]

Very interesting, Ordinary Grace. This is the arrest affidavit - their salvo over the bow - and I'll be very interested in how this shakes out in court.

These are accusations, and not convictions.

Here's what I understand about probation violations, and I think you can probably google it and verify it. If the violation isn't a crime itself - that is, if an ordinary citizen did the deed, it wouldn't be a crime, it is also not a crime as a probationer. It's an administrative
problem, and allows the courts to act on their bargain that you swore you wouldn't do those things which otherwise you could legally do.

Snipped By ME

Her name is Everyday Grace, but you knew that. Psycho's Mama's going to be hard pressed to find 12 people who will believe any of her defense crap. Tonya knew what his probation rules were. They both deserve everything they get.:moo:

No, actually, I forgot when I wrote the post. I mean absolutely no disrespect. I just finished reading "Ordinary Grace" which was a fabulous novel and it just stuck in my head.

 

[nrdsb4]

I'm afraid her son has a tiger by the tail............he just doesn't know it yet. I hope that trying to help his mom doesn't cause him grief but I'm afraid it will.

I have a feeling you are right! I wonder what his wife thinks of all this. I love my MIL, and she loves my DH madly, but I would NOT want her living in my house 24/7! I am a homebody and love my quiet family life. I'd go nuts!!!!!

 

[pappa rob]

Money talks in Mexico, and that's one thing she doesn't have a shortage of. She's gonna go be with Ethan even if she can't spring him. What would he do if he actually had to be without her and grow up???

Money talks every place... As for what would he do without her, I don't see that happening in the foreseeable future, do you?

 

[JeannaT]

Money talks in Mexico, and that's one thing she doesn't have a shortage of. She's gonna go be with Ethan even if she can't spring him. What would he do if he actually had to be without her and grow up???

I think being without her, and spending time in jail would be a very, very positive thing for him. And for her, to be living under conditions where she can't drink or do drugs. I think probably Ethan hasn't gone this long without alcohol and drugs in years - and now that he's in a Mexican jail he's probably thinking a little clearer. Maybe a lot clearer.