TX - Former Dallas Police Officer Amber Guyger, indicted for Murder of Botham Shem Jean #4

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
Toxicology is routinely taken for victims and defendants in a fatal shooting AFAIK, but I am no expert on that. And I thought the doors automatically closed? But thanks for responding, I can understand what you mean. We will see next week.
My friend has the same type lock/door in her apartment, They will close shut if released from full open position, but otherwise they must be guided. A number of times the door did not fully close.
 
My friend has the same type lock/door in her apartment, They will close shut if released from full open position, but otherwise they must be guided. A number of times the door did not fully close.
I think by the end of this trial we are going to know more about these doors, locks, and keys than we ever would imagine.
 
Update 9/24/18: Amber Guyger, the Dallas police officer who murdered Botham Jean in his own home, has been fired, according to a statement released by the Dallas Police Department.
***
“We don’t want it lost on anyone that, had this been a regular citizen, she would have never left the crime scene,” Merritt said, according to the New York Times.

According to Dallas Police Chief Renee Hall, “At the very early stages of this investigation, initial indications were that they were what we consider circumstances of an officer-involved shooting.” Per department policy, even though she was off-duty, Guyger was considered an “involved officer” not a “regular citizen.”

At that time, Chief Hall stated her intention to seek an arrest warrant on manslaughter charges, but declined to name the officer.

According to the department’s General Orders, the night of the shooting, Guyger would have been required “to relate a brief account of the incident to the first supervisor to arrive and to that supervisor only.” DPD’s General Orders also dictate that “involved officers must ‘undergo a debriefing interview in the investigative offices to establish the detailed facts surrounding the incident.’”

While Guyger did provide details of the incident on the night of, a debriefing interview did not occur. Reached for comment, DPD tells Rolling Stone, “All of the information we have released about this incident has been posted to our blog,” and directed any questions to the Texas Rangers.

Guyger’s official account of the incident was given in her first interview — to the Texas Rangers — sometime on Saturday, and is contained into the arrest affidavitthey filed on Sunday.

According to the affidavit, Guyger said the door was “ajar,” but she still inserted her key card and the “force” made the door open. The lights were off and Guyger claims it was too dark to tell that she was in the wrong apartment, but she did see a silhouette moving across the room. Guyger drew her weapon, “gave verbal commands that were ignored,” and then fired twice, hitting Jean once in the chest and abdomen. Guyger dialed 911 before turning on the lights; that’s when she realized her mistake.

Guyger’s account of the incident in the affidavit contains new details and key differences from early reports by the local media. For example, on Saturday, thelocal NBC news affiliate, citing an anonymous police source, wrote that Guyger “struggled with the lock” and was “fight[ing] with the key when the resident swung open the door.”

In that account, the shooting happened in the doorway to the apartment. The story was syndicated by other NBC news outlets. NBC has since deleted the account of the anonymous police source (an archived version of the article is preserved here) “due to conflicting reports of the incident from various sources.”
***Much more @:
Dallas Cop Fatally Shoots Black Man in His Home: Questions Remain – Rolling Stone
 
Update 9/24/18: Amber Guyger, the Dallas police officer who murdered Botham Jean in his own home, has been fired, according to a statement released by the Dallas Police Department.
***
“We don’t want it lost on anyone that, had this been a regular citizen, she would have never left the crime scene,” Merritt said, according to the New York Times.

According to Dallas Police Chief Renee Hall, “At the very early stages of this investigation, initial indications were that they were what we consider circumstances of an officer-involved shooting.” Per department policy, even though she was off-duty, Guyger was considered an “involved officer” not a “regular citizen.”

At that time, Chief Hall stated her intention to seek an arrest warrant on manslaughter charges, but declined to name the officer.

According to the department’s General Orders, the night of the shooting, Guyger would have been required “to relate a brief account of the incident to the first supervisor to arrive and to that supervisor only.” DPD’s General Orders also dictate that “involved officers must ‘undergo a debriefing interview in the investigative offices to establish the detailed facts surrounding the incident.’”

While Guyger did provide details of the incident on the night of, a debriefing interview did not occur. Reached for comment, DPD tells Rolling Stone, “All of the information we have released about this incident has been posted to our blog,” and directed any questions to the Texas Rangers.

Guyger’s official account of the incident was given in her first interview — to the Texas Rangers — sometime on Saturday, and is contained into the arrest affidavitthey filed on Sunday.

According to the affidavit, Guyger said the door was “ajar,” but she still inserted her key card and the “force” made the door open. The lights were off and Guyger claims it was too dark to tell that she was in the wrong apartment, but she did see a silhouette moving across the room. Guyger drew her weapon, “gave verbal commands that were ignored,” and then fired twice, hitting Jean once in the chest and abdomen. Guyger dialed 911 before turning on the lights; that’s when she realized her mistake.

Guyger’s account of the incident in the affidavit contains new details and key differences from early reports by the local media. For example, on Saturday, thelocal NBC news affiliate, citing an anonymous police source, wrote that Guyger “struggled with the lock” and was “fight[ing] with the key when the resident swung open the door.”

In that account, the shooting happened in the doorway to the apartment. The story was syndicated by other NBC news outlets. NBC has since deleted the account of the anonymous police source (an archived version of the article is preserved here) “due to conflicting reports of the incident from various sources.”
***Much more @:
Dallas Cop Fatally Shoots Black Man in His Home: Questions Remain – Rolling Stone

If it was too dark to tell she was in the wrong apartment, how could she see if he complied with her verbal commands or not? Serious question.
 
They didn't release her name for 48 hours, and gave her time to move out of her apartment, clean up her social media accounts, confer with her attorney, and union representative.

Nor were the Texas Rangers called in for the investigation until the following week.
 
Dallas Police Association Wants Amber Guyger Murder Trial Delayed Due To Safety Concerns

Dallas Police Association wants trial delayed for "safety concerns"

what a crock
I think it’s a legitimate concern. Citizens are outraged, and I’m sure there are rational concerns about an uproar, because i think we all know this gal is likely to get manslaughter, 2 years and probation. She will pay dearly through a civil trial is my speculation.

The Victim’s family are solid and dignified. They can help effect positive change and create an incredible legacy for their son by how they handle the upcoming trial and what will no doubt be a media frenzy.

Let the reckless, senseless, and devastating death of Botham Shem Jean serve as a catalyst for an overhaul of candidate screening and ongoing training of the DPD. The vast majority are incredible heroes, but we must constantly assess and reassess fitness for duty to preserve the safety of the public.

Amateur opinion and speculation
 
If it was too dark to tell she was in the wrong apartment, how could she see if he complied with her verbal commands or not? Serious question.
It gets down to this for me. Given what transpired, accident or a trigger happy hot head, it appears she was not fit for duty or stable enough to carry a weapon.

All amateur opinion and speculation only. I remain open to more information that may change this opinion. However, this is how it appears to me at the moment.
 
My friend has the same type lock/door in her apartment, They will close shut if released from full open position, but otherwise they must be guided. A number of times the door did not fully close.
For anecdotal stories, I had also lived in an apartment with a self closing front door. One day I went out to water my plant just outside. I kept the door open using part of my body. That must have been a few inches gap. Well one move the wrong way, and the door shut and locked behind me. Had to call my mum to get a key to let myself back in. Not funny.
 
Question not directed at me, but I'll lob my opinion in this kangaroo court. She is innocent until proven guilty. She should be given a fair trial. Most comments here are insulting to LE, the court, the jurors and people in general.
What possible motive could she have had to deliberately shoot someone? When all the evidence is presented is the time to form an opinion. Not before. That's the way our judicial system is supposed to work!
I believe our judicial system will work. They won’t be forming an opinion. It’s their obligation to conclude with findings of fact.

It might seem like an uproar about this particular judiciary system, the involved players and people of Dallas. Doesn’t everyone feel some sort of way about this case? Everyone is trial by media, everything is social media, people are just very reactive. I feel most comments posted here are informed opinions and are a back and forth via respect for disagreement. There’s a difference.

Isn’t discourse necessary before public opinions are preliminary formed? I think so. This is the WS process before we make a call. The official courts will execute the formal methodology.
 
I'm really confused about why a search warrant was issued on the victim's apartment. AG wasn't in there on official business so why in the world would they be investigating his premises instead of hers? What could they possibly have found that would exonerate an intruder coming into a man's apartment and shooting him dead immediately? And since there was nothing, then what's the logic in searching it?
 
I'm really confused about why a search warrant was issued on the victim's apartment. AG wasn't in there on official business so why in the world would they be investigating his premises instead of hers? What could they possibly have found that would exonerate an intruder coming into a man's apartment and shooting him dead immediately? And since there was nothing, then what's the logic in searching it?

This makes no sense to me. I cannot imagine the police NOT looking for evidence in a building where someone may have been murdered. How else can they have a trial?
 
Dallas Police Association Wants Amber Guyger Murder Trial Delayed Due To Safety Concerns

Dallas Police Association wants trial delayed for "safety concerns"

what a crock
•••••••••
Absolutely a legitimate concern! This trial will be happening during the State Fair and two high profile football games here in Dallas. If the defense can prove that AG made a mistake due to exhaustion, as horrible and tragic as the result was, the jury would not be able to find her guilty of murder. Finding her guilty of anything less could very well create a volatile atmosphere, especially where there will be huge crowds congregated. DPD is already severely understaffed!


They didn't release her name for 48 hours, and gave her time to move out of her apartment, clean up her social media accounts, confer with her attorney, and union representative.

Nor were the Texas Rangers called in for the investigation until the following week.
•••••••••••
Not sure where you got this info. Texas Rangers were called the next morning and completed their initial investigation within 45 hours of the shooting. It was the Texas Rangers' decision to hold off on the warrant until that time - not DPD.
Timeline: How the case has unfolded since Dallas officer Amber Guyger killed Botham Jean
And, it's actually DPD policy that an officer involved in a shooting be advised immediately of their right to have an attorney and to have a confidential meeting with the attorney - even at the scene and before questioning. (See current related policies attached.) That's to protect from having investigators trample the officer's right to counsel and it is every citizens right.

MOO
It feels like some people expect AG to have reacted like someone not trained in LE who thinks their apartment has been broken in to, but at the same time held to a higher standard of being able to tell the difference between a threat and non-threat in the dark - despite noncompliance - because she is in LE.
Don't get me wrong. Bothem Jean was in no way responsible for his own death. Of course you would be confused if someone came in to your apartment and started shouting commands and you might not follow directions. Whether the pot was his or not isn't about him being a bad person. But as others have said, if it was and he had been smoking it could have slowed down his response and added to the confusion. That's the only relevance.
I am especially surprised so many can't believe she could make the mistake of going to the wrong apartment. These loft style buildings have long boring hallways of doors that are identical floor to floor, a lot like a hotel. I have certainly gotten off the elevator on the wrong floor and tried to put my key card in the wrong door before. Yes the numbers are different, but if you've had a really long stressful day (like after a 15 hour police shift maybe) can't you imagine you'd be running on auto-pilot and not really noticing things like that?
And she had all her stuff with her- like her lunch box and vest. I mean, I guess if she was really clever she could have planned to bring that stuff as part of her cover but that seems unlikely.
To me the big question is what is the appropriate punishment for someone whose huge, huge mistake cost an innocent life. Other cases of accidental shootings by civilians and police have not always resulted in indictments for murder. The fact that AG is going to trial should prove that the DA and DPD are trying to make sure Jean's family and the public gets answers about what went so horribley wrong.
I do think there has to be some form of punishment. I just don't know what that should be without knowing all the circumstances that have not been released yet or fully explained like whether the door could physically be ajar, how alike were the halls, and/or was he really across a dark room or at the door as was first reported? She might have changed her story as some people suspect, but it could also have been an error on the initial search warrant and a reason for the Texas Ranger to hold off a day before issuing an arrest warrant.
 

Attachments

Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
93
Guests online
171
Total visitors
264

Forum statistics

Threads
608,562
Messages
18,241,363
Members
234,401
Latest member
CRIM1959
Back
Top