TX - Former Dallas Police Officer Amber Guyger, indicted for Murder of Botham Shem Jean #4

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
I know the law, and that a murder charge means "intent". When AG pulled out a gun, that was "intent". No mistake there. She was fully aware, focused, and deliberately shot him with her gun, not once, but twice. Grabbing for a gun, is premeditation. She had a split second to think, and instead of retreating and calling the police, she decided to shoot to kill.
Again, she claims she believed she was in her apartment. If she were in her apartment, she doesn't have to retreat per TX law.
So it's a "mistake of fact" defense. She will presumably claim that what she did would have been legal if she were in fact in her apartment, which she believed at that time.
 
Again, she claims she believed she was in her apartment. If she were in her apartment, she doesn't have to retreat per TX law.
So it's a "mistake of fact" defense. She will presumably claim that what she did would have been legal if she were in fact in her apartment, which she believed at that time.
I think you narrowed in on what will be the critical focus of the trial.

As I stated upthread, there are various (conflicting) media reports of what was (or not) said prior to the shooting. I believe that, as well as any discussions or instructions AG had/received from the apartment management will be critical. Meaning, did AG report complaints about the Victim in the recent days leading up to the incident? Did the apartment management ask her to investigate pot smell or noise complaints? Did she mention anything to any work colleagues about her noisy neighbor or pot smells?

Amateur opinion and speculation
 
Again, she claims she believed she was in her apartment. If she were in her apartment, she doesn't have to retreat per TX law.
So it's a "mistake of fact" defense. She will presumably claim that what she did would have been legal if she were in fact in her apartment, which she believed at that time.

Which is exactly why the civil lawsuit against the city will be a slam dunk. The training of officers is to shoot first, ask questions later.

Was Guyger in mortal danger? No.
Were there any weapons present? No.
Did she have the opportunity to leave and call for backup? Yes.
Why did she decide to shoot a man so quickly? Reaction, based on defensive training that puts citizens at risk.

The city may as well cut a check. The only question is how many zeros...
 
Which is exactly why the civil lawsuit against the city will be a slam dunk. The training of officers is to shoot first, ask questions later.

Was Guyger in mortal danger? No.
Were there any weapons present? No.
Did she have the opportunity to leave and call for backup? Yes.
Why did she decide to shoot a man so quickly? Reaction, based on defensive training that puts citizens at risk.

The city may as well cut a check. The only question is how many zeros...


They don't have a lawsuit.

She was off duty when she shot him.

She does not know that she is not in mortal danger.

She called 911
 
There are vastly different viewpoints on this case, and that's what makes this thread interesting. I am waiting for our Verified Insider (Falcon500) to weigh in on procedure, which should help guide thinking, and analyze probabilities.
 
do we know if the lights were on in the victim's apt? also, how much lighting was in the hallway?
 
We, meaning the lawful citizens in N. Texas, believe there will be a fair and just trial IF an impartial jury is empaneled and we believe A.G. will most likely be convicted of Murder. Her story is a made up lie to cover her keister, falls so flat, and Botham Jean was an innocent man inside his own property.

Just as Texas is a " Stand Your Ground" state, we are as strongly opposed to a just person being murdered on what is " their ground".
He was unarmed. He did absolutely nothing to provoke this renegade attack.

I, and my friends, believe she will be found guilty. We've thought that from the start, and after I talked to a Texas State Policeman ( they work closely with the Texas Rangers out in the field but are not in the same division of LE), I am personally convinced that she is an example of police using excessive force and killing with no concern for human life or the right of another. It's my perception after the one on one conversation that she will be an example for all who follow as how never to intimidate or hurt innocent gentle people, regardless of gender, age, race, religion or any other factor.

Everyone tells me " He was a gentle man". It breaks my heart. We want a full measure of justice served here in Texas. That's all I know to say. We are united, and I believe a jury of her peers will be as well.

I love this post and believe you are 100% right !!!
 
I know the law, and that a murder charge means "intent". When AG pulled out a gun, that was "intent". No mistake there. She was fully aware, focused, and deliberately shot him with her gun, not once, but twice. Grabbing for a gun, is premeditation. She had a split second to think, and instead of retreating and calling the police, she decided to shoot to kill.
I have often wondered why she didn't use her radio. If the door was ajar and she suspected a robbery, why not use your radio and let your colleagues know what you are possibly heading into? If you suspect someone is on your couch watching TV, why not use your radio to get backup? After you shoot the alleged intruder, why not use your radio?
 
I have often wondered why she didn't use her radio. If the door was ajar and she suspected a robbery, why not use your radio and let your colleagues know what you are possibly heading into? If you suspect someone is on your couch watching TV, why not use your radio to get backup? After you shoot the alleged intruder, why not use your radio?

She was no longer on duty.

That is why she called 911
 
Whether or not ARG had an ulterior motive behind her final action of causing the death of Botham Jean, I do not know. What I find interesting is that the arrest affidavit is worded oddly. (Disclaimer: I am a “Southerner” who, in speech, uses prepositions liberally and interchangeably. Also, I apologize for playing Monday-morning quarterback):

upload_2018-12-3_14-48-40.jpeg

Here is one example:
1.“….Guyger then entered the apartment” after firing her handgun twice.
2. “Guyger believed she was in her apartment and confronted by a burglar when she fired her handgun, striking, and killing him. BBM
If she were “at” or “outside of” as opposed to “in” her apartment, this would reinforce/support the prior sentence of her entering the apartment after the action of firing her service-issued handgun. But, the use of the word “in” implies she broached Botham Jean’s threshold and encroached upon his private property. Is this not entering unlawfully (trespassing)? Using her handgun to neutralize Mr. Jean with deadly force implies intent; she meant to kill to stop what she deemed an offense to her. Otherwise, there would have been a suggestion of a warning shot (which, IMO, police officers aren’t trained to do). Would an unlawful entry bolster a murder conviction?

I have often wondered why she didn't use her radio. If the door was ajar and she suspected a robbery, why not use your radio and let your colleagues know what you are possibly heading into? If you suspect someone is on your couch watching TV, why not use your radio to get backup? After you shoot the alleged intruder, why not use your radio?

Here is another example:
1. After entering the apartment, ARG “immediately called 911, requesting Police and EMS.”

A few sentences later...

2. “Guyger called 911 from her cell phone requesting an ambulance and police to the offense location.”

So, she had a personal cell phone with her. Then, why wouldn’t this trained off-duty police officer call 911 for assistance regarding a prospective burglary in progress while waiting outside her residence instead of acting alone? The affidavit stipulates Mr. Jean was alerted to her presence but fails to mention any level of threat felt by ARG as a motive to act. Was there more of a threat to her or her possessions to remain outside of the apartment as opposed to entering it? Is it feasible a burglar could exit this apartment from another point (4th story window, right?)? ‘Pretty far to drop without sustaining a broken bone while carting off someone’s property….smh.

In reference to the sentence structure describing the immediate events following ARG’s firing her handgun, IMO this part of the affidavit is segmented; it connotes a narrative of her placing two calls to 911, not one…..wonder why?
 
The statement was written after Guyger had time to get her story straight. If she thought she was in her apartment, when talking to 911, she would have given out her apartment number. Why would she have to look at the door for the apartment number?

She shot at a man, in the dark. I am really waiting for the autopsy results. She could not see if he had a weapon or not. She couldn't even tell that was not her apartment!

Either way, it is pretty scary that this woman carried a loaded gun.
 
I still don't understand how "she looked 19, she told me she was 19 and I believed her" is NOT a defense for statutory rape.... yet "I thought I was in my own house and he was a big bad burglar so I killed him" is a defense for murder.

It's just not something I can comprehend. The standard should be FAR higher for MURDER than consensual sex for crying out loud!

I do hope it's true that both charges stand. I have seen too many "slam dunks" end in acquittals because they only charged the highest charge.
 
The statement was written after Guyger had time to get her story straight. If she thought she was in her apartment, when talking to 911, she would have given out her apartment number. Why would she have to look at the door for the apartment number?

She shot at a man, in the dark. I am really waiting for the autopsy results. She could not see if he had a weapon or not. She couldn't even tell that was not her apartment!

Either way, it is pretty scary that this woman carried a loaded gun.
Yes, this. She was sure that she was in her apartment (red mat, notwithstanding) and she had to go and look at the apartment number to give the address?
 
This is the strangest case I've seen.
Any motives discovered yet ?
I did notice Toby Shook is on her defense team (previous Dallas CO DA).
 
Is manslaughter even considered?

Because if they only charged her with murder, then she will walk.

The Texas Rangers got it right the first time.

It would not suprise me if they charged her with murder just to appease the family and the masses.

Jmo.

This is what I was thinking, too !
 
Since I’m having a hard time believing the officers story and since there has been very little evidence released to the public I’m starting to lean towards a theory that she went to his apartment to confront him about the noise she was said to have complained about. Perhaps she thought if she was in her uniform it would intimidate Mr. Jean. Once at the door things may have escalated. That would explain the shouting that was reported.

Of these two possible story’s what rings more true?

She pulled into the wrong floor of the parking garage. Missed all the possible clues in the parking garage, went down a strange (to her) hallway still not noticing anything out of place. Comes to her door and does not notice the red doormat. Either finds an open door or her key manages to open the door. She enters the apartment still not noticing anything out of place until she sees a person there. Decides to pull her gun out and shoot the person rather then step out and call for help

Or

She went to his apartment to confront him about the noise she was said to have complained about and they got into an argument and things escalated.
 
I’ve gotten out on the wrong floor of a hotel I was staying at for a few days. Within seconds I start to notice things don’t look right.

If anyone here lives in a building with a similar type of layout it would be interesting if you got in the elevator with your roommate one evening and press the wrong floor number see how quickly they notice you are on the wrong floor. You may have to distract them in and shortly after you exit the elevator.
 
All speculations aside, I think the case will boil down to whether she made (or was asked to respond) to noise complaints about Mr. Jean, and what was allegedly shouted before shots were fired.

If I were AG, I'd have my attorney busy working on a plea deal.

Amateur opinion and speculation
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
95
Guests online
164
Total visitors
259

Forum statistics

Threads
608,561
Messages
18,241,335
Members
234,401
Latest member
CRIM1959
Back
Top