TX - Former Dallas Police Officer Amber Guyger, indicted for Murder of Botham Shem Jean #5

[Jax49]

I'm curious what jury selection was like. Wonder if they were asked about owning guns and possibly having used them for defense. I assume gun ownership is high. moo

 

[ReadyorNot]

The Prosecution has offered NO evidence that she set out to kill Mr. Jean.

No social media posts, no text messages etc.

A guilty verdict does not require premeditation but she admitted very clearly that she did intend on using lethal force and did intend to kill him. Did you miss that part?

 

[BeachSky]

Full arrest warrant affidavit for Dallas police officer Amber Guyger

Says AG gave first aid
NOTHING about Bo coming at / charging her
Affirmation filed by - David Armstrong ( witness for the defense)

 

[rosesfromangels]

I was sitting here thinking of Botham, and his beautiful singing voice. Out of the blue, these words came to me and I thought I'd share them. A passage from Harper Lee's famous "To Kill a Mockingbird".

...But remember it’s a sin to kill a mockingbird."....."Mockingbirds don’t do one thing except make music for us to enjoy. They don’t eat up people’s gardens, don’t nest in corn cribs, they don’t do one thing but sing their hearts out for us. That’s why it’s a sin to kill a mockingbird.”
― Harper Lee, To Kill a Mockingbird

 

[GMG1999]

Amber Guyger testifies she killed Botham Jean out of fear, but prosecutor says a cop should know better

At one point during her testimony, Guyger, who is white, seemed to look directly at the parents of Jean, a black man.
"This is not about hate," she said. "It's about being scared."
Allison and Bertrum Jean mostly remained stoic throughout her testimony.

So I was not able to hear much today and am trying to catch up now, but AG says she killed him out of FEAR? Fear of him coming at her as he was (have not heard he was just trying to understand what this fear is she is talking about).

 

[ReadyorNot]

I don't find that unusual. I've taken CPR training several times over the years and yet do not feel confident enough to apply it. I would just call 911 too.

Wow!!! Do you realize that every minute is critical to survival? And if your loved one was laying there dying you would find that to be a perfectly good reason for someone else not to do it? You would be ok with that? REALLY?! A person can only go 3-4 minutes without oxygen without irreparable damage. Bad CPR is better than none! Plus almost every State has a "Good Samaritan" law that protects you from liability even if you do harm while trying in good faith! Texas is one of them!

 

[kodi]

They made the same arguments during the Casey Anthony case. I don't buy it. No way in hell IMO was she grieving for Jean. There's a reason behavior of a defendant is analyzed and presented as evidence in homicide cases.

I get that and completely respect your opinion. I am so grateful I’m not on this jury. Right now we don’t have all the evidence yet, and as a juror, IDK how I’d vote TBH. JMO

 

[ReadyorNot]

I can't imagine that he will be any more effective than AG. Is it reasonable to enter an apartment when you have no idea who is inside, how many are inside, or what sort of weapons may be used? Or would the reasonable thing be to back out and call for backup? Is it reasonable to shoot at someone you cannot clearly see?

I agree with everything you said, however, I am making an extra effort to try to understand how you could shoot someone center mass if you can't see them or even determine if they are male/female?

 

[SoCalDavidS]

I get that and completely respect your opinion. I am so grateful I’m not on this jury. Right now we don’t have all the evidence yet, and as a juror, IDK how I’d vote TBH. JMO

I know exactly how I'd vote, which is why I would have been dismissed right away. To me it's at the very least manslaughter. I would be for at least a 10 year sentence. IF she even gets convicted, I doubt she will get that much though.

 

[AllyBeeUK]

The defence have been trying to make a point that it is not an unusual occurrence for tenants to accidentally end up in someone else's apartment. If that's the case, surely AG would have had reason to believe that the "intruder" in her apartment was just a neighbour who had wandered into the wrong one...it's that easy right? IMO being a police officer with a gun comes with a huge responsibility. If her vision was impaired in any way she should have retreated or called out. If she couldn't see who or what she was shooting at she should have kept her finger well off the trigger. Life is precious, we do not play Russian Roulette with it like this.

It might be worth my adding, I come from a family of police officers and am usually fiercely protective of them. I understand the dangers of what they do and I suffered like hell for my Dad's job. I'm sorry if she made a mistake but the victim paid for that mistake with his life. He was just eating ice cream.

 

[ReadyorNot]

i am catching up on this thread. I was wondering how the hell I was going to voice my anger and upset at AG......

Well thank you for your post. I agree with all of it.

agreeing to testify shows how narcissistic she is. I would bet she demanded to do so. I could buy a mistake. But I can't believe after making that mistake, that she was so cold blooded as to not help this poor man.

i think she is so far inside of her own head, that she didn't even notice the bright red doormat. she is so far inside her head she cares about no one else but herself. Cold blooded endeed.

And her crying on the stand was about as fake as I have ever seen. I was buying her crap until she testified. And I am so glad she did. She showed everyone her true colors.

And why is my tablet not doing auto caps?

I hate saying this but her lawyers would have no defense at all if she did not testify. She is the only one who could testify to being so scared that it justified what she did.

 

[Rocco]

I hate saying this but her lawyers would have no defense at all if she did not testify. She is the only one who could testify to being so scared that it justified what she did.

You might be right but after hearing her testify, the whole situation was much much worse than I thought.

She heard someone moving around in 'her' apt. and she went in, rather than call for help??? That's just bizarre.

And her testimony was that she saw a silhouette and said: ''Show me your hands. Show me your hands" and then shot him. How could she possibly know that he didn't show her his hands?

Then she claimed he was rapidly coming at her and she thought he was going to kill her. He was found by the couch, with his bowl of ice cream sitting on the hassock next to him. She went from the doorway to the kitchen, so who was coming at whom?

The real mud was when she testified to just how little she did (nothing) to help him after she shot him. A little CPR, with one hand once in awhile, when she wasn't texting or going out into the hallway to see if help was there? She didn't put any pressure on the wound and didn't use any of the medical supplies she had in her bag. Her explanation was something to the effect she didn't think of it. What she said on the 911 call was bad enough because it was all about her, but her testimony really highlighted just how little this was about Bo and all about her, in her mind.

 

[SandyQLS]

Hi,

Two questions. Are there transcripts of the trial? 2) How did they say she got inside his Apt?

Sorry I have been so busy with work. I didn't know the trial started.

Thanks to anyone who answers.

1. I don't know anything about transcripts, sorry.

2. Amber put her FOB key in the door. Due to a defect of the latching mechanism, she was able to just push the door open. She had stated that it was slightly ajar. The door malfunction unfortunately reinforced her mistaken belief that this was her apartment because she was able to walk right in, and also set in motion her mistake that there was an intruder in her apartment.

*
I'm just jumping off your question into my own opinion....

I believe Amber when she states that she thought it was her apartment. The photo of her whole set of keys still inserted in the door was entered into evidence. A traditional key would never even fit into a wrong lock that way.

In the aftermath, Amber repeatedly says, "I thought it was my apartment. I thought it was my apartment." Someone counted that she said it 20 times to 911. I believe that Amber was in a mental state known as psychogenic shock. She sounds like a broken record because that's what her mind is - her mind is "stuck" on this unresolved problem, so her mind keeps looping back to it, trying to comprehend and resolve the problem. That's not selfish, it's mental shock. She can't move on, she can't function clearly, so her brain keeps returning to the origin point to start again with what happened, how did this go wrong.

I have seen this happen myself with a witness to a sudden violent trauma. The person in psychogenic shock was himself physically uninjured, but he could not function at all, was frozen, and just kept repeating the same thing over and over, as his mind tried to comprehend the extraordinary, unexpected event that had happened right in front of him.

I believe it is probable that this is also why AG did not render much aid and is unable to even articulate or remember what she did or did not do. AG never even yelled out into the courtyard, "Can someone give medical help? Is anyone here a nurse?" or such words - - to seek assistance from bystanders is part of the training for rendering aid. She did however activate EMS, another step.

Why didn't the Defense bring in a psychological expert for Amber to explain her exigent state of mind, her fight or flight adrenaline dump? I don't think AG did well during cross, but I see someone who is guilt-stricken. Due to some of the evidence presented in the trial, I am moving down from possible manslaughter to only criminally negligent homicide. MOO

 

[gitana1]

I get that and completely respect your opinion. I am so grateful I’m not on this jury. Right now we don’t have all the evidence yet, and as a juror, IDK how I’d vote TBH. JMO

We kind of do have almost all the evidence. The state presented its case. They're done. The defense had Guyger testify and give her entire side of the story and the state crossed her. So she's explained herself.

Which is why we know that she "grieved" by sexting, texting about getting drunk and joking around with her affair, a mere two days after she killed Jean. Two days after she also admittedly destroyed evidence in this case, consisting of text convos with her affair/partner right after the killings, because, she claimed, she was embarrassed by the affair.

So she's so ashamed about being with him that she erases crucial text conversations surrounding the killings but two days later is no longer ashamed and is now happily and casually sexting and joking with him. Because, you know, she's so sad about what she did to Jean that she needs to "grieve" in this way.

I mean that testimony sort of stunned me. It frankly wasn't what I expected. I didn't know she had been so casual in the days after she took an innocent man's life. I didn't know she would so easily lie about why she tampered with evidence.

She's super shady. An unethical, cold liar.

I'm not sure what other evidence can be presented to refute than at this point.

 

[gitana1]

The defence have been trying to make a point that it is not an unusual occurrence for tenants to accidentally end up in someone else's apartment. If that's the case, surely AG would have had reason to believe that the "intruder" in her apartment was just a neighbour who had wandered into the wrong one...it's that easy right? IMO being a police officer with a gun comes with a huge responsibility. If her vision was impaired in any way she should have retreated or called out. If she couldn't see who or what she was shooting at she should have kept her finger well off the trigger. Life is precious, we do not play Russian Roulette with it like this.

It might be worth my adding, I come from a family of police officers and am usually fiercely protective of them. I understand the dangers of what they do and I suffered like hell for my Dad's job. I'm sorry if she made a mistake but the victim paid for that mistake with his life. He was just eating ice cream.

I'm with you on this. I defend and respect LE unless they show me they've erred. It rankles me how often people will criticize LE during these cases - they're inept, stupid, need to relinquish all their evidence to the amateur public to solve the case because clearly they don't know what they're doing, they're wrong for withholding evidence, they shouldn't treat suspects with such apparent concern and empathy during interrogations, they don't care about the case or the victims- I've heard all of those ridiculous criticisms and I always defend.

And you know there was a lot of social media or posts by AG about how civilians can't understand what it's like to be a cop
and sort of pro-police and police mindset versus civilian, us versus them type stuff, etc. That didn't bother me. Because it's true. Except people like you who grew up with it, most of us would have zero idea what it's like to have that job. And be so vilified and hated or distrusted by a lot of the public. I get the need to find a community among themselves and support one another.

But what she did here is wrong IMO. And criminal.

 

[Darling136]

New thread is open, please move there for further discussion

TX - Former Dallas Police Officer Amber Guyger, indicted for Murder of Botham Shem Jean #6

we are closing here in few minutes...

 

[Jax49]

After AG's testimony I'm dumbstruck. I think she did so poorly it would have changed my vote (as a hypothetical juror). It would move UP the range of possibilities.

Those long minutes while he lay dying and she worried about herself were horrible...pacing the hall, texting, etc. while she should have been performing CPR is incomprehensible, imo.