TX - Former Dallas Police Officer Amber Guyger, indicted for Murder of Botham Shem Jean #5

[angelainwi]

I fully expect there to be riots in Dallas.

Jmo

If she walks there will definitely be riots

 

[Amber29]

Isn’t that what Castle Doctrine does, though? Give people the idea that they can shoot an intruder inside their own home, regardless?

I’m not that familiar with Texas law, but every Texan I’ve met seems to believe this is their right (I lived in El Paso for a while). Heck, lots of people everywhere believe this - but I believe Castle Doctrine makes it legally explicit that you can shoot and ask questions later if someone is an intruder inside your home or RV or trailer.

Yes but she wasn’t in her home. That is part of some people’s issue with this case though because they don’t realize that Texas law says that. In fact I’ve seen it said in this thread that B&E shouldn’t carry a death sentence and maybe it shouldn’t but Texas law allows it. Either way she shot a man in his own home and that is why she absolutely has to held accountable for her mistake.

 

[SoCalDavidS]

Well, the off duty cop in CA is not going to be charged. Can we just wrap up this dog and pony show, and let Amber go free? Cops are above the law in the United States, and it's time to accept that if you live here.

 

[sloane7777]

So am I reading right that some think this case is only being prosecuted because she is white and he is black? Wow. I hope justice is served. If I drive my car and hit someone because I was distracted im still liable. She is culpable and should be punished. Her depraved indifference afterwards disgusts me

Wish there was a LOVE button for this post!!!!!

 

[Anicole]

You know I might have done the same. Walked into my apartment. Key seems weird. See some dude in there. My instinct would be I'm in trouble. It's why I don't conceal carry. I'm too worried about danger.

However, but i'm not a trained cop. And I also think I wouldn't make that mistake because I try to be super aware of my surroundings, also due to being hyper alert for danger.

But, if you WERE a cop and you DID fire your weapon - as was the case in this event - Would you have rendered aid while the victim lay bleeding and dying or would you be worried about your job and texting your special friend?

That's what I really cannot get past. The body cams showed that the police had to rummage through his apartment to find something to try and stop the bleeding which means that SHE did nothing in the minutes it took someone else to show up and give the man some aid.

I still think they've overcharged her with the murder charge. I'm not heartless person who think she deserves the death penalty or even 20+ years. (Of which there are many, if the boards and comments around the web are to be believed.) I don't know what a proper term of punishment should be, but I do know that "free and clear" isn't it.

 

[Weki]

No reasonable person can believe her defense. I don't know what her motive could be. But there is no way that she is justified in this shooting. Just like Nouman Raja. She's sociopathic. And I believe her relationship with Rivera triggered this act. It sounds like he was jerking her around, and she was desperate. I wouldn't be surprised at all if she did this for attention. I seriously wouldn't! It sounds crazy but so does claiming to have walked into the wrong apartment and shooting someone to death.

 

[sloane7777]

Well, the off duty cop in CA is not going to be charged. Can we just wrap up this dog and pony show, and let Amber go free? Cops are above the law in the United States, and it's time to accept that if you live here.

Wow I just heard myself speak in a Stallone Voice "NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW" if Bo was my child I don't know what I'd do but I would never stop fighting for him.

 

[sloane7777]

No reasonable person can believe her defense. I don't know what her motive could be. But there is no way that she is justified in this shooting. Just like Nouman Raja. She's sociopathic. And I believe her relationship with Rivera triggered this act. It sounds like he was jerking her around, and she was desperate. I wouldn't be surprised at all if she did this for attention. I seriously wouldn't! It sounds crazy but so does walking into the wrong apartment and shooting someone to death.

Exactly did you hear the prosecutor say their relationship was lightening up....I think she was angry he was losing interest !!!

 

[Weki]

Exactly did you hear the prosecutor say their relationship was lightening up....I think she was angry he was losing interest !!!

Yep! The way he was toying with her in the texts and his whole affect on the stand lets me know what type of guy he is. I'm sure there's tons that is not being presented because it would be considered prejudicial to her. But I'm reading between the lines and she's one of those obsessive crazy women.

 

[sloane7777]

didn't the city if Dallas settle a lawsuit too??? Apologize if I'm wrong

I don't think so , I'm almost sure they will wait until afterward , I might be wrong but Ive followed closely

 

[10ofRods]

By Nationwide I mean the national news outlets picked up the case. The nationwide news only picks up certain cases causing huge public outcry is my point. I of course am local to this case but there are numerous examples of this.

I’m using it in the same way. My point is that hardly any cases get picked up long term and this case, IMO, was barely covered “nation-wide.” It was a blip. It’s being covered on Fox News, I think (but I’m not seeing anything on CBS National news, so far, although I admit I don’t watch it all day - and it’s the only national news that I watch).

Most really big US stories get into USA Today (this one did) but today, I don’t see anything about it on USA Today.com Usually, once it gets “nation-wide,” UK’s Daily Mail starts coverage too.

Anyway, I don’t think this case is getting nationwide attention right now. It doesn’t come up at the top of News Google unless you have preset your news to favor trials and crime.

I’m very open to hearing on which platforms (besides Fox) this “public outcry” is taking place. Front page of News Google is filled with the Florida grandmother (which will disappear) but I’m also seeing the Costco shooting - the cop is apparently not going to face prosecution for shooting the disabled man).

I haven’t seen much in the SF Chronicle or the LA Times about this case since it happened - today they’re more concerned with the Costco thing and the recent student-on-student violence/death in SoCal.

In fact, now that I think about it, I’m not sure we have “nationwide” news except for some cable outlets that are subscription based (each playing to a different audience, none of them with a wide base) and USAToday. We could say the LA Times and The NY Times and WAPO are “national news” but really, the Sac Bee is more nation-oriented (as is SF Chron) than the LA Times, which is merely more famous I guess.

Yes but she wasn’t in her home. That is part of some people’s issue with this case though because they don’t realize that Texas law says that. In fact I’ve seen it said in this thread that B&E shouldn’t carry a death sentence and maybe it shouldn’t but Texas law allows it. Either way she shot a man in his own home and that is why she absolutely has to held accountable for her mistake.

Yes, I realize that. That’s why the defense is going to try for the “error of fact” negligence defense. The whole case seems to spin on that aspect of Texas law.

 

[mickey2942]

But, if you WERE a cop and you DID fire your weapon - as was the case in this event - Would you have rendered aid while the victim lay bleeding and dying or would you be worried about your job and texting your special friend?

That's what I really cannot get past. The body cams showed that the police had to rummage through his apartment to find something to try and stop the bleeding which means that SHE did nothing in the minutes it took someone else to show up and give the man some aid.

I still think they've overcharged her with the murder charge. I'm not heartless person who think she deserves the death penalty or even 20+ years. (Of which there are many, if the boards and comments around the web are to be believed.) I don't know what a proper term of punishment should be, but I do know that "free and clear" isn't it.

We don't know what the instructions to the jury will be at this point. They could be given instructions to deliberate on anything.

I often felt that CA would be in prison now, if they hadn't gone for the death penalty. That was a definite mistake.

 

[sloane7777]

Yep! The way he was toying with her in the texts and his whole affect on the stand lets me know what type of guy he is. I'm sure there's tons that is not being presented because it would be considered prejudicial to her. But I'm reading between the lines and she's one of those obsessive crazy women.

YES! exactly how I see it !

 

[mickey2942]

Yep! The way he was toying with her in the texts and his whole affect on the stand lets me know what type of guy he is. I'm sure there's tons that is not being presented because it would be considered prejudicial to her. But I'm reading between the lines and she's one of those obsessive crazy women.

Jodi Arias in blue. No wonder the guy wanted to chill.

 

[sloane7777]

I fully expect there to be riots in Dallas.

Jmo

Me too Ive already heard chatter about it from the younger ones on my FB! I can tell if she walks it will be bad!!!

 

[rescuemom]

Completely separate situations.
1. Amber Guyger is a police officer. Higher standard expected.
2. This is almost 2 generations removed, 1969.
3. A police officer killed a man in his own home.

There really isn't any comparison between the two.

I liked the new narrative I read today, that Botham, a large black man was "charging" at Amber Guyger, she had no time to think, because she felt in "fear" of her life.

They are really re-framing the entire situation.

I have to disagree with you on this comparison you give...a US Sen from the state where the "accident" occurred certainly should be held to a pretty high standard..the year of the "accident" is a moot point as the negligent death of an individual occurred..a US Sen "killed" an individual in his employ in his personal vehicle, actually a friend's vehicle..crawled out of the water, went to his room and went to sleep...there was no 911 call, no indication he tried to save the occupant of the car and wore a neck cone with his poor wife standing behind him to a news conference held the next day...now that was re-framing the entire situation, JMO

 

[Wishbone]

By Nationwide I mean the national news outlets picked up the case. The nationwide news only picks up certain cases causing huge public outcry is my point. I of course am local to this case but there are numerous examples of this.

Court TV started broadcasting over the air in July and they are really good at getting you hooked into a murder trial. I don't have cable so I end up watching it a lot.

 

[gitana1]

Really? I live in California and I don’t think that would be true here. Almost no cases are covered nation-wide these days, but in California, any unusual type of crime (cop neighbor shooting defenseless neighbor in his own home) would get lots of press (like that recent Costco shooting). We’ve had a couple of cop suicides that are still getting some press, years later (families have challenged MoD). A recent case where a cop didn’t kill himself but did shoot himself badly got a lot of press (white guy).

A white male stabbed to death while eating at a nice restaurant in Central California (by a black man) is still getting press and got tons of press when it happened (but perhaps not nation-wide?)

But as to “nation-wide” coverage, well, I barely heard about this case (it wasn’t in my local media feed at all) and wouldn’t even have heard about it if I didn’t follow true crime on reddit. WS of course is a wealth of daily crime info, but we are hardly typical (I’m a fairly new member, so yesterday is about the first time I actually read about this case).

IOW, this particular case did not and is not getting a whole lot of “nation-wide” coverage, especially in this day and age of cable-cutting.



Oh so true. I, for one, would not wish to be a cop, a judge, a lawyer - or a nurse - or a doctor. Different compelling reasons for me to have rejected these jobs (and I did start out on the path to a couple of those). The classroom has its risks (obviously) and there are a lot of teachers who have put themselves in between gunmen and their pupils, too. Some people just have that in them (I think I would do the same - but not sure I would have, when I was much younger).

The cops I personally know are amazing people and many have never used their guns. All would put themselves (and have put themselves) in harms way to protect others, and that includes high speed chases or neighborhood foot chases. Heck, just standing by the side of the road on a traffic stop is dangerous.

I did some research on bear/human interactions not that long ago, and some of my police friends thought I was crazy (bears are so much less scary than humans, seriously). The only times I’ve been afraid, it’s been of humans (not bears).

My dad died 3 years ago, but maintained strongly that policing in California had changed, that cops were being trained to kill and to think too quickly of that option. He was from a family of LE people, and one of his best friends was a cop (who agreed with him - and quit policing because of it). Dad’s experience with police spanned 90 years (there’s a newspaper article of him and his brother being picked up for curfew violation when he was 9).

Having you on this thread, Gitana, is like having our own dedicated and expert legal professional, far better than any coverage I’m seeing elsewhere.

Thanks! I try. I think @Hraefn has provided much more valuable information and analysis in this case however. She's working today though so not as available.

So did she order commands or just start shooting at him?

I really hope she takes the stand and explains why she did what she did

The defense said she would.

 

[Rocco]

Isn’t that what Castle Doctrine does, though? Give people the idea that they can shoot an intruder inside their own home, regardless?

I’m not that familiar with Texas law, but every Texan I’ve met seems to believe this is their right (I lived in El Paso for a while). Heck, lots of people everywhere believe this - but I believe Castle Doctrine makes it legally explicit that you can shoot and ask questions later if someone is an intruder inside your home or RV or trailer.

I don't think you can say 'regardless'.

Texas' castle doctrine, or castle law, protects you from legal troubles if you are ever placed in a situation where you have to use force or deadly force to protect yourself against an intruder who poses a threat. Gun expert reminds Texans of castle law protections

The intruder has to pose a threat. What was the threat?

 

[gitana1]

yes she certainly did!!!! but what was her motive??? living there just 2 months did she even know BSJ or any neighbors???

No motive. Just unreasonable decision making. Not doing what she needed to do to ensure safe use of her weaponry.