GUILTY TX - Former Dallas Police Officer Amber Guyger, indicted for Murder of Botham Shem Jean #6

[turaj]

I have only been able to watch snippets here and there of the news coverage this week, but fortunately all of you have been keeping the thread up to date with the latest developments; thank you!

Here's my thinking ATM. AG was/had been busy texting away with her partner/object of her personal interest, and was not paying attention to where she was going. She missed all the obvious clues because she was preoccupied with her texting. (Although I am having a *very* hard time understanding how she could miss that BRIGHT RED door mat).

The door was either ajar or somehow she opened it. (The answer to this point will be very important to the outcome). From there, she thought there was an intruder and shot to kill.

Was this murder? This is a very tough one, and will rely heavily on the Judge's instructions *and where she was standing when she shot him*. If she was in the doorway, she could have backed out and sought cover. If she could tell he was sitting on the couch and eating ice cream, she was obviously not in imminent danger of losing her life.

For me, it will get down to where she was standing, and where he was at the time of the shooting. If stitting, I think a charge of murder might stick.

I don't think this was her intention, I think she was preoccupied with lover boy, and should never have been carrying a gun based on this, and her previous shooting incident. Trigger happy Trixie.

RIP sweet Botham

Amateur open and speculation

I have only been able to watch snippets here and there of the news coverage this week, but fortunately all of you have been keeping the thread up to date with the latest developments; thank you!

Here's my thinking ATM. AG was/had been busy texting away with her partner/object of her personal interest, and was not paying attention to where she was going. She missed all the obvious clues because she was preoccupied with her texting. (Although I am having a *very* hard time understanding how she could miss that BRIGHT RED door mat).

The door was either ajar or somehow she opened it. (The answer to this point will be very important to the outcome). From there, she thought there was an intruder and shot to kill.

Was this murder? This is a very tough one, and will rely heavily on the Judge's instructions *and where she was standing when she shot him*. If she was in the doorway, she could have backed out and sought cover. If she could tell he was sitting on the couch and eating ice cream, she was obviously not in imminent danger of losing her life.

For me, it will get down to where she was standing, and where he was at the time of the shooting. If stitting, I think a charge of murder might stick.

I don't think this was her intention, I think she was preoccupied with lover boy, and should never have been carrying a gun based on this, and her previous shooting incident. Trigger happy Trixie.

RIP sweet Botham

Amateur open and speculation

What was the "previous shooting incident"...I had not heard about this?

 

[Wishbone]

What was the "previous shooting incident"...I had not heard about this?

A perp took her taser away and she shot him in the stomach. He lived.

 

[btfly547]

Forgive me if this has already been brought up.
Were AG's deleted social media posts part of the trial or brought up at all by the prosecution?
Not sure if they were all posted by her or just liked by her, but IMO they show a glimpse into her state of mind and callousness towards another life.

Here's a few snippets for anyone not familiar with more details in the link.

"People are so ungrateful, no one ever thanks me for having the patience not to kill them"

"I wear all black to remind you not to mess with me, because I'm already dressed for your funeral"

"Stay low, go fast, kill first, die last, one shot, one kill, all luck, no skill"

Check Out What Appears To Be Amber Guyger's Pinterest Account

 

[blue22]

There is something that really bothers me. Why would she text him "hurry," if he wasn't already going to come over? That's such a weird thing to text if they weren't getting together.

 

[Wishbone]

I actually do feel really sorry for her. She has lost everything - her job, her identity, everything she has worked for. The fact she was able to become a police officer in the first place is so messed up - the whole system failed here. Was there just a push to get more female officers so they accepted her? Why was she not weeded out? I hope DPD does a thorough review.

Don't misunderstand, I am not absolving her of her many wrongdoings. I think she should be convicted and sent to prison. She should never be able to be anywhere near guns again, she should never be able to so much as be a security guard. She should spend the rest of her life making restitution to Mr. Jean's family. But I do feel sorry for her. I can't imagine how it must feel to wake up everyday knowing you (in her words) f*'ed up so badly.

I don't feel the least bit sorry for her. So what if she lost everything, she can still drink and party with a married man, which seems to be her priority. She's still alive, she can start over unlike Botham. She had so much remorse and sympathy for killing Botham that she wasn't able to sext her married partner to party with her for a couple of days. I can't forget that.

 

[blue22]

Call me callous, but I believe she deserves to lose everything.

 

[Wishbone]

I was thinking about what the case would be if the round she fired into the wall had gone into the apartment next door and killed someone else. Another innocent. What she did is just plain unforgivable.

 

[YESorNO]

Guyger Murder Trial Wraps Saturday With Little Testimony (with clip)
Trial to resume Monday morning at 9:30 a.m.

Sep 28, 2019

"Day six of the Amber Guyger murder trial finds the jury in the courtroom on a Saturday. It is an uncommon, but not unusual move. With the jury sequestered, Judge Tammy Kemp is attempting to keep the trial moving.

The day began with voir dire, with the jury out of the courtroom as Craig Miller, a former police chief with the Dallas ISD, was questioned as an expert witness. Miller will testify about a temporary condition called "inattentional blindness" where a person missing something in their field of vision because they were focused on something else.

When the jury returned to the courtroom, Texas Ranger David Armstrong was recalled to testify on the physical effects of a high-stress situation. Armstrong said a person may suffer from auditory exclusion, tunnel vision, short-term memory loss and an elevated heart rate when overwhelmed by stress.

After a short break, Judge Kemp returned to the courtroom and dismissed the jury for the weekend, asking them to return at 9:30 a.m. Monday...."

Guyger Murder Trial Wraps Saturday With Little Testimony

 

[Weki]

There is something that really bothers me. Why would she text him "hurry," if he wasn't already going to come over? That's such a weird thing to text if they weren't getting together.

Right - that’s why I don’t think the 16 min convo was an argument such that she arrived at her apt complex in a fit of rage bc he told her no or whatever. They were both eager for the rendez-vous. Checking up on each other’s whereabouts etc. So eager that she stopped her car for a 16 mins phone sex is my thought.

 

[Wishbone]

He’s pathetic too. Deleting evidence!

Why on Earth hasn't he been fired? He would be completely useless now in court, for testifying. Every single time that he is called for testimony, the defense could slay him with this situation.

Rivera and Guyger have more in common than sexting and having an affair. They have both shot unarmed men and killed them. Rivera shot and killed Brandon Washington over a candy bar.

"The night he was killed, Washington was suspected by a clerk of shoplifting a candy bar at a convenience store on Lake June Road in Pleasant Grove, according to news reports.

When Washington was slow to take his hands out of his pockets, Rivera shot him once in the head and leg, police records say. He died later.

No weapon was recovered from Washington, according to news reports at the time. The item in his pocket was a cellphone, his mother said."


Local activists call for re-investigating fatal shooting involving Amber Guyger's former police partner

 

[btfly547]

There is something that really bothers me. Why would she text him "hurry," if he wasn't already going to come over? That's such a weird thing to text if they weren't getting together.

Because he was headed over. She had to be lying about that part, otherwise how would he know where to "hurry" to?
I wish the defense would have expounded on that and proved it to be a lie that he wasn't headed over. If a person will lie about one thing to save themselves, odds are they will lie about more than one thing.

 

[gitana1]

This is a case that ended differently, the cop resigned after the incident


UT assistant police chief resigns after neighbors say he pulled gun on them

"Lambert said he thought someone must have broken into his new house and were inside stealing some items," Ross wrote in his report.

But it wasn't his garage. It was that of Valerie Slowik, who had just come outside with her 10-year-old daughter. They were about to leave when Slowik said Lambert — a stranger in plainclothes — got out of his car, walked into her garage, pulled out a handgun and began yelling at her.

"What the (expletive) are you doing here? This is my (expletive) house," she quoted Lambert as saying, describing him as "psychotic" and "manic."

Slowik tried to tell Lambert her family had lived there for two years, according to the report, but he didn't believe her. Slowik's husband heard the noise and came outside with their 11-year-old child to find a man holding a pistol.

Lambert continued to argue with the family, telling them, "I'm a cop, this is my house," until one of the children started to scream, the report states. Lambert then realized his mistake, backed out of the garage and apologized before leaving the area.

UT assistant police chief resigns after neighbors say he pulled gun on them

Wow. That could've ended so badly with two little kids there. "Psychotic" and "manic". Scary.

 

[gitana1]

I think I felt bad for her a little bit until I learned that while Mr. Jean's family was probably planning a funeral, she was texting her partner and whoever else about getting drunk.

Me too.

 

[gitana1]

I have watched most of this trial and do not see one shred of evidence that leads me to think that she went there intentionally...no way. If I have missed something please point it out. Way too much effort by some to make this about race or some other relationship. Again if I have missed an important connection I would welcome the info.

I think the reason some may feel that way is because it seems too improbable that she would miss so many clear and obvious signs that she wasn't going to, or in her home. Starting from where she parked and when she got out of her car, the walk out of the open floor of the parking garage, the options once she exited the parking garage, the looooong hallways lined with number fours, the missing neighbor's planter, the bright red floor mat, the missing baker's rack when she went in, and on and on.

This is why I thought she had to be drunk or high.

But I don't think she knew where she was. In part because she went straight to his apartment from her car. Not from her home due to a noise issue or whatever.

As far as race is concerned, she saw a black man in a residence sitting on a couch eating ice cream. I posted the research that shows how black people are perceived as larger and more dangerous by cops and by everyone than white people of the same size doing the same things. It's not due to hating others for being a different ethnicity or due to being evil or whatever. It's subconscious. And I do believe it is likely why he was shot so quickly and without warning even though he was just sitting there, posing no threat. (I don't believe she warned him at all).

 

[gitana1]

Edited by me for emphasis! You hit the nail on the head with your whole comment esp about the prosecutions strategy. I’m not sure why some are intent on claiming this means I’m saying she targeted him bc of his race or that I’m saying it’s a conspiracy. That’s a straw man argument. Even the state is questioning her stance that she didn’t know it was the wrong apartment. Call it unreasonable, call it whatever you want but it boggles the mind and puts a question mark on whether she knew she was at the wrong apt before she shot him.

Well the state is not questioning her stance that she didn't know she was at the wrong apartment. They're questioning whether that was a reasonable mistake to make. And their assessment is that no- she was unreasonably distracted and had she not been, she would've likely realized her mistake.

 

[gitana1]

Is it murder?

1. It is legal in Texas to shoot an intruder in "your" home.
2. AG did think that she was in "her" apartment.

Mistake of Fact

This is really going to boil down to the instructions for the jury. The fact that AG is a trigger happy, idiot, is relevant to the fact that absolutely no one likes her. She was obviously just a piece of action for Officer Rivera. But no one has to like her mucb.

I came across something interesting, apparently some jury instructions were so confusing to a jury that the defendant was found "Not Guilty". The law, language, and nuances can be very confusing to some people, and some attorneys like to be verbose, and deliberately confounding, twisting their words to make something simple seem complicated.

But it's down to the judge to approve them.

Fingers crossed they will be clear.

I can't wait for closing. I think the state really has to hammer on reasonability and how she failed to follow her department's protocols and how Bo Jean would be alive if she had.

 

[gitana1]

I don’t think she did either.
She has a narssist mentality. I think she was preoccupied with her last phone call. Raging in her mind over something the b/f was doing or not doing.Usually if a narssist is emotionally wounded they need -ego fuel- pronto. She goes in guns blazing.
That was a true Narc on the stand blame shifting..HE was big , HE was going to kill me.



MOO

I'm with you. And her texting him later didn't mean that they didn't have an argument. I see her as a possibly grasping, obsessive person.

Maybe she wasn't satisfied with just having an affair. Maybe his guilt made him reconsider getting together that night or even continuing the affair at all. So they had an intense argument and she was upset. Irate. Narcissistic panic.

 

[gitana1]

Agreed. It's going to be an intense few day with the victim impact statements and all. I wonder if she will address the court? I'll probably not be able to watch that. I think I will take a nice walk and think of Mr. Jean.

Unless she's acquitted. I'm worried about that.

 

[gitana1]

I have only been able to watch snippets here and there of the news coverage this week, but fortunately all of you have been keeping the thread up to date with the latest developments; thank you!

Here's my thinking ATM. AG was/had been busy texting away with her partner/object of her personal interest, and was not paying attention to where she was going. She missed all the obvious clues because she was preoccupied with her texting. (Although I am having a *very* hard time understanding how she could miss that BRIGHT RED door mat).

The door was either ajar or somehow she opened it. (The answer to this point will be very important to the outcome). From there, she thought there was an intruder and shot to kill.

Was this murder? This is a very tough one, and will rely heavily on the Judge's instructions *and where she was standing when she shot him*. If she was in the doorway, she could have backed out and sought cover. If she could tell he was sitting on the couch and eating ice cream, she was obviously not in imminent danger of losing her life.

For me, it will get down to where she was standing, and where he was at the time of the shooting. If stitting, I think a charge of murder might stick.

I don't think this was her intention, I think she was preoccupied with lover boy, and should never have been carrying a gun based on this, and her previous shooting incident. Trigger happy Trixie.

RIP sweet Botham

Amateur open and speculation

As I recall she testified she put her key in and realized the door was slightly ajar. So she pulled out her service revolver believing there was an intruder and pushed the door open with one hand.

 

[rosesfromangels]

As I recall she testified she put her key in and realized the door was slightly ajar. So she pulled out her service revolver believing there was an intruder and pushed the door open with one hand.

okay - now I want to know (based on expert testimony) where they believe she was standing vs. Botham. If she shot him while he was sitting or getting up from the couch, then I believe the murder verdict would be just. Wantonly reckless comes to mind.

wanton

Amateur opinion and speculation