GUILTY TX - Former Dallas Police Officer Amber Guyger, indicted for Murder of Botham Shem Jean #6

[BeachSky]

She lived alone.

And her dog was at her mom’s .

 

[dog.gone.cute]

I would go in. My family & pets could be in danger.

Hello,

Yes, I do understand your point - you have family and pets living there.

I should have worded my initial comment better. It was based on living alone, so I would not go in if I lived alone - because no one else is supposed to be there.

I hope that made some sense ... LOL

 

[Cindizzi]

BBM: Exactly ...

If I came home and saw a silhouette through my window - and this person was NOT supposed to be in MY home - I am going to grab the cell phone and dial 9-1-1.

Even I would not go in ... I am waiting on LE ... no way I am going in ... and I am not a scared person.

MOO

The defense wanted to have it both ways. Remember when she took the stand and they brought up how there was a lot of crime in her area (burglaries, break ins, homeless folks jumpin the fence and sleeping on chaise lounges poolside)? She even said she would go to work and look it up. I kept wanting the pros to say well that’s even MORE reason for her to be aware of her surroundings and not park on the wrong floor, a single woman coming home at 10:00 pm ! Cause ya know, she was just a citizen then.. not a trained cop!

 

[Weki]

She lives alone and had no reason to believe anyone else was in her apartment in harms way. She was NOT in danger behind the door when he didn’t even know she was there. She had the upper hand. She was NOT in a defensive position when she decided to open the door and engage.

I mean if you’re inclined as a civilian and want to go ahead and play cop and engage then go ahead. But you’ll go to prison. Be prepared for that also! Hope it is worth it to you!

 

[Betty P]

If you think about it what she did is tantamount to a civilian coming home and seeing a silhouette through the window. And before they enter their home, pulling out their gun, entering, surprising the person/intruder and shooting them to death. And then calling the police! I mean that is not self-defense. That is deciding to play cop and take the law into your own hands. The average person wouldn’t do it and the jury is made up of average persons. I hope they see it that way!

Wouldn't it be more like a civilian coming home, stopping at their neighbor's house, seeing a silhouette inside and going inside to kill the person without first checking their identity?

 

[sloane7777]

I would go in. My family & pets could be in danger.

dog was at her moms , because she was expecting maintenance to be IN HER APARTMENT ! chew on that for a second

 

[gitana1]

I don't like the way they gave her preferential treatment.

Agreed. And treated the victim like a suspect.

 

[gitana1]

Today in closing was the first time I heard it mentioned, but I remembered seeing it in the photos. ( left side in the corner). He made an excellent point with bringing that up in response to defense asserting that Bo was standing way back by the patio door!

I wish he had been at the door and had knocked the intruder out with it. He would still be alive.

 

[kodi]

I appreciate that the DA is so Texan that he said God bless you to a sneeze in the middle of his rebuttal. LOL.

I thought I imagined that!

 

[max99]

Did anything ever come up during the trial about rumors that AG had made noise complaints against Botham Jean previously?

 

[AllyBeeUK]

dog was at her moms , because she was expecting maintenance to be IN HER APARTMENT ! chew on that for a second

Woah. I missed that.

 

[gitana1]

It's negligent homicide for me as well. Not sure it is on the table tho.

I;m going to listen to the instructions. They're here:

Judge Tammy Kemp reads jury instructions in Amber Guyger trial

 

[UKslueth2018]

I;m going to listen to the instructions. They're here:

Judge Tammy Kemp reads jury instructions in Amber Guyger trial

Etc
From my limited understanding it came across as they have a few options which could be good or bad! Would love to hear your thoughts on them xx

 

[gitana1]

As a side note, this is largely true in Texas practice, but not true in the absolute sense.

Rather, an intruder in a home is presumed to be a threat by their presence. Thus deadly force against them is presumed justified. But.... neither prong is assumed.

Thus, the State can still prosecute home occupants if it can be shown conclusively that the intruder was not a threat at the time they were killed by the occupant (ie execution).

But.... even in "execution" circumstances, it can be hard to get a conviction in Texas as one case illustrated when teenage burglars were seen by the homeowner, ordered to kneel, then one was shot by homeowner from behind.

That's good information. (Can you link it?) And scary. So the homeowner got off after forcing the teen intrude to kneel and shooting them from behind? That's an execution.

I just hope the jury feels as strongly about the right of an innocent man not to b executed in his home by the actual intruder.

 

[Weki]

Wouldn't it be more like a civilian coming home, stopping at their neighbor's house, seeing a silhouette inside and going inside to kill the person without first checking their identity?

I’m applying the castle doctrine as if it were her home. I’m taking out the “mistake” entirely and saying even if it were her home she can’t claim self-defense. I believe that was the logical conclusion to Hermus’ rebuttal. Even if it were her apartment and he was an intruder, she was not in a defensive position until she chose to pursue. And that is unreasonable. A reasonable person would pause, step back, call the police. You can’t decide that a burglar deserves the death penalty and act as judge and executioner. We don’t give the death penalty to burglars.

You can’t be the aggressor and claim self-defense.

 

[dog.gone.cute]

dog was at her moms , because she was expecting maintenance to be IN HER APARTMENT ! chew on that for a second

BBM: I'm chewing ... and I want more to chew on !

JMO but there is something - not sure what - that is just not adding up about AG.

MOO

 

[max99]

That's good information. (Can you link it?) And scary. So the homeowner got off after forcing the teen intrude to kneel and shooting them from behind? That's an execution.

I just hope the jury feels as strongly about the right of an innocent man not to b executed in his home by the actual intruder.

there was also this case:

https://www.texasobserver.org/joe-horn-and-castle-doctrine-shootings-in-texas/

 

[Smarty Jones]

You never know who is on the jury. We had people posting on here about how immoral he was for illegally smoking pot. Someone on that jury might sympathize with a good gal with a gun finding a large black man in her home and think, well, what are you supposed to do? Of course it would be assumed he's a threat. You have to neutralize such a threat. What else could she have done?

I'm scared of that. Injustice is too common when it comes to certain parts of our society.

regarding Botham's use of marijuana, possession of sma

And smoking pot. Remember, there were posts here that indicated he isn't a good guy because HE WAS BREAKING THE LAW.

So sad.

He lived in Dallas County which reduced possession of small amounts of marijuana to a Class 3 Misdemeanor - small fine if it's prosecuted at all. Not the big crime it once was.

 

[Falcon500]

Wouldn't it be more like a civilian coming home, stopping at their neighbor's house, seeing a silhouette inside and going inside to kill the person without first checking their identity?

No it wouldn’t be the same. If an officer stopped at a neighbors house he would have no idea who the neighbor might have invited in, what guests or relatives might be there, or even a repairman. Officer Amber knew damn well that there should be no one in her apartment because it was hers.

 

[SuziQ]

I have to leave for a dentist appointment. I'm almost positive that equates to the jury coming back with a verdict while I am gone.