GUILTY TX - Former Dallas Police Officer Amber Guyger, indicted for Murder of Botham Shem Jean #7

[gitana1]

IMO the murder charge is wrong, it should have been manslaughter. I think murder requires an act of malice, while manslaughter requires an act of negligence. I don't see murder here, but is a clear case of manslaughter.

I agree that in most states this would fall under manslaughter or second degree murder laws. Malice is usually required. But this is TX. The law is simply different. They don't require that. They followed the law.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I'm not surprised by his brother's response.

Over the years I've seen families of deep Christian faith do the same things even when the murderers were a part of their own families at the time. Those were well thoughtout beforehand premeditated murders too.

I have also seen through the years parents or other family members of the victims go to the murderers, whether they are on death row or doing LWOP, and forgive them because of their strong faith in God, both who knew the offenders, and when they are strangers.

It does show how deep religious faiths can truly be the catalyst when forgiving others even in the worst most tragic times in their lives, which this certainly is. It's been the common denominator in all I've seen where they forgave. It shows how powerful it truly is.

I understand if those who do not believe may not understand that, and I respect that POV totally.

Forgiveness is an individual choice for all to make, and the time it will or will not happen.

I fully understand his brother's decision, and his heartbroken mother's as well.

God bless Bo, and his beautiful family.

Jmho

 

[gitana1]

Oh I hope so. Please hear what he said :

“It’s what Botham would want “

I’m not religious but what a wonderful young man to have that kind of love in his heart.

What amazing examples he and Judge Kemp are.

Yes. It's soul filling what we just saw. If we had more of people extending compassion and forgiveness we would have such a better life in this world.

 

[Tugela]

I was just thinking how amazing this entire situation is, just reading about it.

This may be an opportunity for AG to really become a different person. Not a trash talking, hard gal, who has such low self esteem that she would be a married man's side piece. I hope that she takes this situation as a time for change. Giving her ten years, gives her a chance to come out, and be a better person.

Unlikely. There was no act of malice, she made a mistake that had terrible consequences. Putting her in prison is not going to make her a "better person" because she presumable is one already and is not a criminal in habit. Rehabilitation is not required, it is not as though she is going to go out and commit other crimes when she is released. All a long prison sentence will do is cost the taxpayers a large amount of money and wreck her life.

 

[CrimeDawg123]

IMO the murder charge is wrong, it should have been manslaughter. I think murder requires an act of malice, while manslaughter requires an act of negligence. I don't see murder here, but is a clear case of manslaughter.

Yeah, just please read the Texas penal code and it will clear it up for you. Murder in Texas does not require an act of malice. A lot of us have had an education here about this.

 

[gitana1]

I'm not surprised by his brother's response.

Over the years I've seen families of deep Christian faith do the same things even when the murderers were apart of their families at the time. Those were well thoughtout beforehand premeditated murders too.

I have also seen through the years parents or other family members of the victims go to the murderers, whether they are on death row or doing LWOP, and forgive them because of their strong faith in God, both who knew the offenders, and when they are strangers.

It does show how deep religious faiths can truly be the catalyst when forgiving others even in the worst most tragic times in their lives, which this certainly is.

I understand if those who do not believe may not understand that, and I respect that POV totally.

Forgiveness is an individual choice for all to make, and the time it will or will not happen.

I fully understand his brother's decision, and his heartbroken mother's as well.

God bless Bo, and his beautiful family.

Jmho

Yes. It's so hard to get there.

I will also add that I've seen this deep level of forgiveness among members of many faiths as well. Among Muslims. Jews. Buddhists. Etc.

 

[gitana1]

Unlikely. There was no act of malice, she made a mistake that had terrible consequences. Putting her in prison is not going to make her a "better person" because she presumable is one already and is not a criminal in habit. Rehabilitation is not required, it is not as though she is going to go out and commit other crimes when she is released. All a long prison sentence will do is cost the taxpayers a large amount of money and wreck her life.

Her actions and inaction surrounding this crime do show some serious defects of character. She was not a good person IMO. She was itching to act as judge jury and executioner.

But i can see there's hope.

 

[CrimeDawg123]

Yes. It's so hard to get there.

I will also add that I've seen this deep level of forgiveness among members of many faiths as well. Among Muslims. Jews. Buddhists. Etc.

Exactly. It really isn't the particular book, is it. It's what's in the heart.

 

[Tugela]

I agree that in most states this would fall under manslaughter or second degree murder laws. Malice is usually required. But this is TX. The law is simply different. They don't require that. They followed the law.

They originally charged her with manslaughter so the law can't be too different, except maybe in wiggle room so prosecutors can use the charge to intimidate someone who should face a manslaughter charge into taking a plea deal.

 

[Hope4More]

mother is speaking now...she is very angry at Dallas Police and is not in the same place as her son is.

There is no need for her to be in the same place as her surviving son, no right for anyone to judge her for not being there, and no reason to view his generosity towards Amber as a greater or more worthy expression of anything. They each lost the same person, but one lost a brother, and the other lost her son.

 

[Kakidoll]

People don't deserve to be shot, because they have record. Especially, when they are getting shot before the cop even knows who they are. I think we should think about this "there is no respect for authority." We should think about that. What respect do they deserve when they are shooting unarmed people? When they perpetuate domestic violence at incredible numbers? When they are protected over the people they harm? When they break the law and have clean records? Let's really think about that.

I'm not talking just LE, i'm speaking in general, there is no respect for authority in all venues these days. When LE is shot by a citizen during a traffic stop, when they are shot trying to break up a domestic violence call, when they are killed trying to save someone else..... then the public says 'its just part of their job'. In this case, i'm trying to look at it as a woman, not a cop. She was not on duty. She still had her weapon on her. THAT is the issue, IMO. She automatically reached for it. Had she been coming from the grocery store and done the same thing, what would the outcome have been? She probably still would have been carrying and pulled her weapon, as a civilian.

What i'm getting from your statement is 'THEY" as in all LE, correct? I agree there are some cases that the officers should have been charged and weren't. But there are also some that brought out the worst of people when there was no way to truly judge unless you were in that persons shoes. I don't care if its a fake gun, or a water gun. If you point it at me, and it LOOKS like a gun, and i fear for my life, you bet i'll protect myself. And you do not EVER shoot to wound. You shoot to kill. Because otherwise you may not get another chance to protect your own life. Again, MOO

 

[mickey2942]

'I forgive you': Botham Jean's brother, Amber Guyger embrace following witness impact statement

That was fantastic. What an amazing young man. And we finally really see AG showing true emotion. Love, and forgiveness is so much more powerful than hatred. It looked like that poor girl really hasn't had a hug, and needed one.

Her defense team didn't even touch her shoulder when she was convicted of murder, but her victim's brother gave her a hug at her sentencing hearing. Wow. Where is my tissue? That was amazing. I bet that there wasn't a dry eye in that courtroom.

 

[blue22]

I'm not talking just LE, i'm speaking in general, there is no respect for authority in all venues these days. When LE is shot by a citizen during a traffic stop, when they are shot trying to break up a domestic violence call, when they are killed trying to save someone else..... then the public says 'its just part of their job'. In this case, i'm trying to look at it as a woman, not a cop. She was not on duty. She still had her weapon on her. THAT is the issue, IMO. She automatically reached for it. Had she been coming from the grocery store and done the same thing, what would the outcome have been? She probably still would have been carrying and pulled her weapon, as a civilian.

What i'm getting from your statement is 'THEY" as in all LE, correct? I agree there are some cases that the officers should have been charged and weren't. But there are also some that brought out the worst of people when there was no way to truly judge unless you were in that persons shoes. I don't care if its a fake gun, or a water gun. If you point it at me, and it LOOKS like a gun, and i fear for my life, you bet i'll protect myself. And you do not EVER shoot to wound. You shoot to kill. Because otherwise you may not get another chance to protect your own life. Again, MOO

Apples to oranges. We are talking about UNARMED people here.

 

[Hraefn]

I wonder after all of this will the family proceed with a civil case?

I definitely believe so. Accountability matters.

 

[gitana1]

I did not expect 10 years. Personally I was hoping for at least 15.
Nor did I expect this extraordinary ending of this trial. I have never witnessed a devastated and grieving family act with such grace and dignity. And Bo's brother, what a fine young man he is, what strength and faith he has to state and do what he did. I've never seen anything like it. What a terrible loss they are enduring, and yet he can forgive, with sincerity.

May the family heal, may their faith sustain them.
And may Amber Guyger dig deep inside, reflect, and become a better person than she has been thus far. I don't know if she can, but I would hope she comes out in whatever number of years never forgetting Bo and his family, and does something really meaningful for others, in his and their name.

That's a perfect note to end on for me. I want to try to live by Bo and his family's example right now and focus on the good.

 

[Tugela]

Her actions and inaction surrounding this crime do show some serious defects of character. She was not a good person IMO. She was itching to act as judge jury and executioner.

But i can see there's hope.

I think it is all good and well to talk about these things after the fact, but when you are actually in a situation like that you are not going to be thinking or acting rationally, and will do things that look off when viewed later.

I think anyone, including you, is going to be panicking in a major way if you accidently walked into the wrong house and shot someone you thought was an intruder. You can't judge behaviour based on theory, all that goes out of the window in a high stress situation like that. That includes any training you might have had. Until you have actually been in a situation you don't know how you are going to react when it really happens, no matter what your training is. I say this as someone who has served in the military. People react in all sorts of ways you don't expect. The phrase "fight or flight reaction" is very real.

 

[CrimeDawg123]

Let's just say the victim's family practiced - oh I don't know - Santeria. Let's say they showed the same forgiveness based on that religion. Then let's say after the proceedings were over the judge brought out a book of that religion to share with the murderer. What difference would it make? None. It's a non-issue and IMO did not bring religion into the court. I am not a Christian and I'd be the first to call it out if today were over the top.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

But in a remarkable act of kindness, the brother of the victim took the witness stand and spoke directly to Guyger, saying, "I love you like anyone else," and later hugged her in the courtroom before she was led off to prison.

But Jean's 18-year-old brother, Brandt Jean, took the witness stand and spoke to Guyger, saying, "I know if you go to God and ask him, he will forgive you."

"I love you just like anyone else and I'm not going to hope you rot and die," Brandt Jean told Guyger. "I personally want the best for you. I wasn't going to say this in front of my family, I don't even want you to go to jail. I want the best for you because I know that's exactly what Botham would want for you. Give your life to Christ. I think giving your life to Christ is the best thing Botham would want for you."

Brandt Jean then asked Kemp if he could give Guyger a hug, a request the judge granted.

He stepped off the witness stand and met Guyger in front of the judge's bench and embraced as Guyger broke into tears.

Moments later, Kemp spoke to Guyger privately and also hugged her and appeared to give her words of hope. She also handed her a Bible.

Victim's brother hugs ex-cop after sentencing in wrong-apartment murder

 

[imstilla.grandma]

 

[Hraefn]

IMO the murder charge is wrong, it should have been manslaughter. I think murder requires an act of malice, while manslaughter requires an act of negligence. I don't see murder here, but is a clear case of manslaughter.

No malice requirement under TX laws for murder.