GUILTY TX - Former Dallas Police Officer Amber Guyger, indicted for Murder of Botham Shem Jean #8

[imstilla.grandma]

Some of that criticism came from within her own police department, with some demanding her resignation after a more than month-long absence during a summer that saw a rise in violent crimes.

The department said she was on planned medical leave and she returned to work as chief in late August.

"There's gotta be a better day, and that better day starts with each and every one of us," Jean continued.

They also questioned why Guyger was allowed to talk with friends who went to the scene after the shooting.

Hall later spoke from Dallas police headquarters, acknowledging "there was sworn testimony that revealed things" that made her concerned and disheartened.
'There's gotta be a better day,' says Botham Jean's mother after Amber Guyger sentencing

 

[Charlot123]

Am I the only one here that doesn't think that this is a racially motivated murder?

I actually think that she was tired, distracted and mad because her married lover/partner wouldn't come up to her apartment to satisfy her "needs."

She entered the wrong apartment (through a defective door), saw a man sitting on a couch, eating ice cream. She shouted at him and immediately drew her weapon and aimed to kill, without really looking around to see if it was her apartment or thinking of alternatives (like exiting).

I think that she would have done this to any target. This target just happened to be black.

I also think that this apartment complex needs to be held liable. Didn't they say that it was found that the electronic plates in floor were put in wrong causing the door to latch sometimes and sometimes not latch? That along with those apartments looking so much alike are an accident waiting to happen.

I understand the politics behind wanting to make this strictly a racially motivated crime, but I just don't believe this to be the case. That's just my opinion.

I don't think that AG will be a danger to our society once she serves her prison sentence, especially, if she is never allowed to own a weapon or be in a position of authority again.

It's just sad that this young man had to lose his life. I personally hold AG AND the apartment complex responsible.

JMO.

It was not racially motivated murder, but MOO - it was a stereotype-driven murder.

It could be a white man, whom she could have easily taken for an armed intruder. I think height, size and gender play a bigger role than the race. Race might add another dimension, but a tall, big, young white man could have had exactly the same outcome.

The problem is, here, the stereotypes are reversed. It was she who was an armed intruder and a killer.

So yes, let us forget that Jean was a black man. But let us also forget that Amber was a female cop. And see her, and judge her for who she was. An armed intruder who murdered the apartment owner/tenant.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

I can only imagine the community's perception of who we are as a Dallas police department and, if we're truly honest with one another, what law enforcement is or who law enforcement is across this country," Chief U. Reneé Hall said in a press conference shortly after the sentencing, adding that an internal investigation is in the works, according to The Texas Tribune.

“Every single one of you citizens of Dallas and residents of Dallas need to know what to do to get your city right.”

“The energy in Dallas is more volatile now than when the case started, because you gave people a bit of hope, then you took it away,” said Changa Higgins, head of the Dallas Community Police Oversight Coalition, referencing the relatively short sentence for a crime that carries a maximum of 99 years.
Dallas police chief announces internal probe of police behavior exposed in Amber Guyger trial

 

[Charlot123]

I agree, and I wonder why some posters are still trying to stir the hate up. It's over...finished. move on to a case that deserves all this vitriol.

Because every mother of a young man, regardless of the race, can very well understand how Botham Jean's mother feels right now.

 

[Seattle1]

A murder conviction in Texas carries anywhere from 5-99 because there are no degrees of murder here. The jury very well could’ve thought she deserved a sentence more in line with manslaughter but because she admitted intent it fits for murder in Texas.

They also were specifically told in their instructions that they were NOT to consider when she would be eligible for parole. The instructions clearly said that is not up to them or their job to decide but up to a parole board.

Maybe in the near future a juror will speak up and tell us all what their thoughts were.

If I recall correctly - AG was initially charged with manslaughter -- recklessly caused the victims death (2nd degree felony -can carry 2 to 20 years in prison.

It was the grand jury that indicted AG for murder -- alleging AG knowingly and willingly caused the death of another person (1st degree felony - 5 to 99 years in prison).

I think Jury also felt this was more along the line of manslaughter, and punished her accordingly.

I also think her training was to "shoot to kill," and not necessarily that AG intended to enter that particular apartment and kill an intruder.

MOO

 

[Artis]

I respect your opinion: i agree she is not dangerous- she is not a serial killer or a psychopath, but i feel she did deserve some prison time for what she did; she did lie during her testimony about the details of the shooting: for example, the warrant states that Botham immediately confronted her: we know that is not true: she testified Botham was coming at her: we know that is not true because of the testimony of the ME about the trajectory of the bullet. She would have been better off telling the truth. That said, she should be out in 5 years. Does anyone know what actually being in prison is like for even one day? Many years ago i was hauled to jail for parking tickets: i was there for a few hours before my boss got me out of there: just one or two hours in a jail cell is beyond hell-ish. She will spend at least five years in prison-- my guess is that she will have to be isolated because she is a cop. This is a very unusual case and we have seen unusual things. I think Botham Jean's brother is an amazing young man, as is the judge in this case. I don't expect to see anything like their behavior in any other trial.

Thank you for the additional info. I agree that she if lied then that's bad. I assume it was because she was scared of what might be coming.

When I suggested 10 yrs house arrest, community service and working, it seemed a more suitable and productive consequence. Something like that would be nearly unheard of in our system, I know, so the only option for a consequence becomes prison. I DO feel she deserved a consequence for her actions so wouldn't want anyone misunderstanding where I was coming from. I'm also not a cop fan so it isn't that.

As you said, this is an unusual case (to say the least). Terrible for everyone involved.

 

[Artis]

May I ask why you say "she is not a danger to anyone". How do you know that? This is a woman who used deadly force against a total stranger...people make mistakes in terms of thinking they are in their apt. or at any spot...killing is not the answer. In fact if she was a danger to Botham she could be a danger to someone else. She needs way more than hugs (that might be a good start) and hopefully she will get the treatment she needs in prison...I think she will have it as easy as possible in there.

Of course and those are fair questions.

I believe she shot Bo because she was a cop. What I mean is that if you or I were enter the wrong apartment, we would be disoriented and step back quickly (most likely). Cops, whether on or off duty, have been trained to react fast which is both crucial to their safety and deadly for all of the innocent people killed by them (and are a LOTS of them). Once trained, they don't turn that off when they punch out. You and I aren't armed and programmed to shoot (to kill, I might add) and probably aren't carrying a weapon. I don't like this programming of this special group of people, granted a license to use deadly force where it would be illegal for anyone else and believe it's a serious problem for our society and our God given rights. So, like a lot of things it's complicated but that's the reason I think she shot.

I don't think she's a danger to society because she has no such history and it unfolded from a mistake, not from from predatory malice or some insane temper/power tripping (as we've seen with some other murders by cops, like that pycho in Arizona who murdered that man, face down on the floor, begging not to be killed). Bo's brother knows it, the judge knows it and that's why they were so emotional and extended such grace to her.

I think there a sh/tload of cops who should be doing major time for killing innocent people AND dogs. She isn't one of them.

 

[Artis]

BBM.

Ok not commenting on the race. She probably is not a danger to me if she mistakenly barged into my house because I am not too tall, and a woman. But she is a mortal danger to a big, tall, younger man whose apartment she’d take for her own. Look at it from the standpoint of the victim. Who is peacefully sleeping in his apartment, doing nothing wrong, and then killed because a cop first made a mistake, and now, she is scared of a big man, and trigger-happy, and can’t think fast. A cop that can act fast but not think fast is a walking danger.

ETA: and you wrote, “allowing her to work”? Work in what capacity, as a cop? She can’t be even a mile close to LE structures. She doesn’t notice surroundings, is distracted by phone exchanges, and shoots before she thinks. And at this, she is a good shooter. She can’t own a gun, ever. I don’t know what job she can ever do. Something very far from people.

I'm with you on how terrifying it that someone can be IN THEIR OWN HOME and get killed like that (and it's happened to a hell of a lot of people who have murdered by police and SWAT teams). As I said, I'm not a cop fan and, due to extensive following of murders by cops, I think our society would be better without any. I also agree she was trigger happy as many of them are. It's shoot first and ask questions later because they've been trained that split seconds can mean they get killed. The job and the training - especially with what I presume is a lack of psychological screening - creates armed people who are on edge.

I think her history as attested to by friends, co-workers and family and this awful event will ensure she never does anything like this again. And, no, of course I didn't mean work as a cop. I just meant any productive work. I don't agree that she can't be around people. She can never own a weapon, again, but she could certainly do other work.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Dallas Police Department Press Conference

 

[imstilla.grandma]

“Any citizen has a right to attorney client privilege. We do not tape that. It's against the law to tape that. So that's why the camera was turned off," Mata said.

"They wanted the narrative that it was flawed, that she got special treatment, that we withheld evidence because that fits a narrative that we're not holding officers accountable. And that's false," Mata said. "There is more oversight on officers than ever before."

"If they have evidence, hard factual evidence that somebody committed a crime, they have a duty to do something about it. But if they don't, they should clear their name. And I want my name cleared," Mata said.

"There are two sides to every story and we can't rush to judgement until we get all of the facts from the Chief," Piquero said. "I think the way the Chief has handled this case is appropriate."

"As for major reforms, I don't know the Dallas Police Department needs major reforms. Do they need some reforms? Perhaps," Piquero said.
Union Leader Disputes Corruption Claim

 

[imstilla.grandma]

A Farmers Branch officer was sentenced to 10 years last January after killing teenager José Cruz in 2016. And last August, ex-Balch Springs officer Roy Oliver was sentenced to 15 years for the 2017 murder of Jordan Edwards, who was 15.

Yet the city’s relationship with law enforcement has also been marked by the deadly shooting of five police officers in the middle of a Black Lives Matter march in July 2016. At the time, former police chief David Brown said that the Johnson “wanted to kill white people, especially white officers.”

“We were in the middle of a nationwide crisis, where black men were being shot by police officers, and here in Dallas we had the opposite,” said Hammond Parham, who is black.

“For awhile it helped in our relations. We could come together in what we think is wrong and respect lives as a whole,” she said.

“It’s a sign to the community that we are in the right direction,” Hammond Parham said.

"The reality just taught us that she is part of a bigger system and one actor taken out does not change the system,” Sara Mokuria, co-founder of Mothers Against Police Brutality, says. “We are still managing a very troubled system, with a long and horrible history when it comes to black, indigenous, lantinx, queer folks and women.”

“They need to bring the officers that obstructed the investigation to some disciplinary action,” Higgins said. “Then the police department needs to have a real investigation into their officer shooting practices, procedures and policies, look into how the investigative units proceed with this. This exposed a lot of issues.”

“Police officers should be tested twice a year about the use-of-force continuum,” said Leroy Peña, national director of the Red Handed Warrior Society, a group that works in issues from indigenous rights to police brutality.

“We don’t have the manpower we had before. We have to prioritize our calls in terms of how violent is the case,” Sargeant Smith said. “And the city of Dallas is not getting smaller. It’s getting bigger.”

“Right now the role of the police is too broad and too wide. They are being asked to be social workers, first responders, experts in mental health, traffic officers,” she said. “We need to identify a different way to address these problems. The role of police officers needs to radically change and create new entities to better shift our issues. A hammer is just one tool and you can’t use it for every situation.”

"It begins with us"

“Trust is not given, it is earned,” Smith said. “You can’t stay in the police car and expect trust. You need to develop relations and sometimes talk to people you are not comfortable talking to.”

"There are areas of concern that we need to address, and I pledge that we will make those changes," she said. "Changing the perception of law enforcement, it begins with us. We must double our efforts to continue to build trust."

“We have to continue to organize,” someone shouted.

Later, they walked to a nearby intersection, stopped traffic and shouted: “Who runs these streets? We run the streets!”
Amber Guyger Trial Highlighted Why Dallas Communities Of Color Often Distrust Law Enforcement

 

[AllyBeeUK]

Of course and those are fair questions.

I believe she shot Bo because she was a cop. What I mean is that if you or I were enter the wrong apartment, we would be disoriented and step back quickly (most likely). Cops, whether on or off duty, have been trained to react fast which is both crucial to their safety and deadly for all of the innocent people killed by them (and are a LOTS of them). Once trained, they don't turn that off when they punch out. You and I aren't armed and programmed to shoot (to kill, I might add) and probably aren't carrying a weapon. I don't like this programming of this special group of people, granted a license to use deadly force where it would be illegal for anyone else and believe it's a serious problem for our society and our God given rights. So, like a lot of things it's complicated but that's the reason I think she shot.

I don't think she's a danger to society because she has no such history and it unfolded from a mistake, not from from predatory malice or some insane temper/power tripping (as we've seen with some other murders by cops, like that pycho in Arizona who murdered that man, face down on the floor, begging not to be killed). Bo's brother knows it, the judge knows it and that's why they were so emotional and extended such grace to her.

I think there a sh/tload of cops who should be doing major time for killing innocent people AND dogs. She isn't one of them.

BBM : In the UK our police officers are trained to de-escalate first using verbal instruction. My dad protected himself with a baton and a shield when a riot was attacking him with petrol bombs and he was being shot at with a crossbow. BUT, he is still alive. He doesn't support the routine arming of police officers and neither does any other police officer I know (that's a lot!)

Our police officers face so many dangers, just a few months ago someone tried to cut off a police officers head with a samurai sword and all he had was his CS spray. But again the important thing is both police officer and assailant are still alive. When both parties have a gun, it becomes a case of who will shoot first. Pulling a trigger is something that can be done so quickly but once the bullet leaves the gun there is no taking it back.

 

[ilovematt]

Where were her gloves? Cops don't touch hair without gloves on when doing a search.

Exactly, she was straight smoothing fuzzies and stroking her hair in place. I do that for my good friends. She even readjusted it, lovingly. No gloves too so any evidence is tainted if that theory is true. TF. All the hugs. The bible. Special treatment city.

 

[Artis]

BBM : In the UK our police officers are trained to de-escalate first using verbal instruction. My dad protected himself with a baton and a shield when a riot was attacking him with petrol bombs and he was being shot at with a crossbow. BUT, he is still alive. He doesn't support the routine arming of police officers and neither does any other police officer I know (that's a lot!)

Our police officers face so many dangers, just a few months ago someone tried to cut off a police officers head with a samurai sword and all he had was his CS spray. But again the important thing is both police officer and assailant are still alive. When both parties have a gun, it becomes a case of who will shoot first. Pulling a trigger is something that can be done so quickly but once the bullet leaves the gun there is no taking it back.

I'm fully committed to our constitution and the right to bear arms but not to granting authority to any group to do violence on behalf of the state. That combined with the training and paranoia of being targets becomes a problem.

 

[AllyBeeUK]

I'm fully committed to our constitution and the right to bear arms but not to granting authority to any group to do violence on behalf of the state. That combined with the training and paranoia of being targets becomes a problem.

I would never comment on the 2nd amendment, not being an American citizen I really don't think it is my place. I wouldn't like to insult US culture any more than I would any other culture I have not experienced. It's a difficult thing; I think because we are so different as a society, British techniques would most likely not be effective for US policing. However, most other police forces across Europe, Australia and NZ are routinely armed but they don't have the same 'shoot first, ask questions later' problem.

I'm not sure what the answer is. I might be naive but I see some hope that this might be a bit of a turning point, if not for US society as a whole at least for Dallas PD to build better relationships with the communities they serve, at least that is what I'm hoping for. It's heartbreaking to hear of such senseless loss of life. We have our own problems here with terrorism and knife crime but I do believe that by working together, over time these issues can go some way towards being resolved.

ETA: where I come from we do actually have a big problem with gun crime. It rubs me up the wrong way when people try and pretend that we don't. Criminals still carry weapons despite our very stringent gun control.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I feel sad how Bo's death has become so divisive once again.

I've seen posts saying the answer to everything is to punish all approximately 1.2 million police enforcement agencies here instead of concentrating solely on the small percentage of vile police officers who do abhorrent acts..among that 1.2 M.

So the answer is to have no one left to protect us, and they all should be dissolved?????

Those same ones who have already laid down their own lives who also save others, and continue to do so whether on duty or off duty??

So it's better to not respect the rule of law, and become the land of the lawless instead??

Imo, But in the past 6 years or so even moreso this seems to be the consistent pattern of solving everything for many, instead of finding the root causes of the individual wrongdoers.

We see so many are willing to punish over a 150 Million law abiding gunowners for what other individuals have done. Yet exfelons or those in violent gangs have infested cities who take thousand, and thousands of lives every single year by firearms. Where is the outrage since solving that terrifying issue terrorizing communities, would actually make our overall homicide rate plummet including thousands who are guilty of attempted murder? Crickets. Imo.

I respect all views of all others even those I may disagree with, BUT especially when it's based in logic, and common sense. When it actually has logical conclusions which will not harm millions of those who are not at fault, but views that truly will resolve many issues.

I'm sadden to see the atheists have now become involved, but not the least bit surprised. Now they swoop in to make it all about THEM rather than about Bo, and his family's heartbreaking shattered lives.

It painfully shows what I have said often here.

When kind, and good acts are now proclaimed as bad acts, and bad behavior/acts are now upheld, rewarded ,and proclaimed as good acts, it shows how upside down we've become, and how far we are in the black hole of cancerous negativity.

My prayers continue to be with Bo's family.

Jmho

 

[Amber29]

"It felt like they were asking for an eye for an eye for Botham. And I felt like he was somebody who wouldn't take an eye for an eye," said Juror 21.

"We understand that it was a mistake. And 10 years would be enough time for [Guyger] to get back out there and try to do something better with her life," said Juror 34.

The jurors were not in court to hear the victim impact statement from Jean's younger brother, Brandt Jean, when he expressed forgiveness for Guyger and embraced her. They said seeing the video later made them even more confident in their decisions.



Jurors in Amber Guyger trial describe how they made their decision

They are talking

 

[kim.kitchenstupman]

I feel sad how Bo's death has become so divisive once again.

I've seen posts saying the answer to everything is to punish all approximately 1.2 million police enforcement agencies here instead of concentrating solely on the small percentage of vile police officers who do abhorrent acts..among that 1.2 M.

So the answer is to have no one left to protect us, and they all should be dissolved?????

Those same ones who have already laid down their own lives who also save others, and continue to do so whether on duty or off duty??

So it's better to not respect the rule of law, and become the land of the lawless instead??

Imo, But in the past 6 years or so even moreso this seems to be the consistent pattern of solving everything for many, instead of finding the root causes of the individual wrongdoers.

We see so many are willing to punish over a 150 Million law abiding gunowners for what other individuals have done. Yet exfelons or those in violent gangs have infested cities who take thousand, and thousands of lives every single year by firearms. Where is the outrage since solving that terrifying issue terrorizing communities, would actually make our overall homicide rate plummet including thousands who are guilty of attempted murder? Crickets. Imo.

I respect all views of all others even those I may disagree with, BUT especially when it's based in logic, and common sense. When it actually has logical conclusions which will not harm millions of those who are not at fault, but views that truly will resolve many issues.

I'm sadden to see the atheists have now become involved, but not the least bit surprised. Now they swoop in to make it all about THEM rather than about Bo, and his family's heartbreaking shattered lives.

It painfully shows what I have said often here.

When kind, and good acts are now proclaimed as bad acts, and bad behavior/acts are now upheld, rewarded ,and proclaimed as good acts, it shows how upside down we've become, and how far we are in the black hole of cancerous negativity.

My prayers continue to be with Bo's family.

Jmho

Thank you for a great post!

 

[magnolia]

The jury had the option of finding her guilty on a lesser included charge of manslaughter. They declined to convict her on that charge. They almost certainly declined to do so because Amber testified she chose to shoot, and chose to shoot to kill.

My use of the term 1st degree murder is generic - that the killing was intentional. My opinion that her sentence is far too lenient isn't based on a misunderstanding of Texas murder statutes, nor that she was a cop, nor on her color or the color of her victim.

I believe the sentence is too lenient because Amber chose to kill Botham Jean, a man who posed no threat to her, rather than to simply close the door and ask for assistance. She took a life for no justifiable reason whatsoever.

(Just three and 1/2 minutes elapsed between the time she stepped out of her truck and when she called 911 after shooting Jean. Isn't that rather telling about the choices she made?).

The Jury sent a note to the Judge with questions regarding manslaughter and castle doctrine. This tells me they did not immediately focus in on the murder charge. I would love to know what questions they asked.

 

[Thora_Jay]

Jurors in Amber Guyger trial describe how they made their decision

6:50 AM CDT October 4, 2019

DALLAS — A day after sentencing Amber Guyger to 10 years in prison for the murder of Botham Jean, two jurors are explaining how they came to their decisions.

In an interview with ABC News, Juror 21 and Jury 34 did not give their names but they said the decision to find Guyger guilty of murder was made quickly after they were given their instructions and sent to deliberation.

In an interview with ABC News, Juror 21 and Jury 34 did not give their names but they said the decision to find Guyger guilty of murder was made quickly after they were given their instructions and sent to deliberation.



"I don't think Bo would want to take harsh vengeance. I think he would want to forgive her," said Juror 34.


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