TX TX - Jason Landry, 21, enroute from TSU to home, car found crashed at Luling, 14 Dec 2020 #5

[Valiant]

It's possible he had a bad reaction to drugs he took.
it's also possible he simply suffered from the trauma of the accident - not necessarily the physical trauma.
Statements like "surely he would have found and taken his phone" make sense - but believe me you are not always thinking clearly after an accident.

 

[Valiant]

And the other idea "surely he'd realize he was on the wrong road" ?
Not necessarily. As a user of Waze, it's common to be re-routed a different way on the same trip due to traffic conditions, road construction, etc. He'd only made the trip one or two times before. If Waze hadn't told him to turn (especially if he didn't know it was off) he might assume he was to travel down that road until the next instruction was given.
I've had Waze on more than one occasion send me down gravel roads.

 

[Curiousobserver]

Whilst I agree there are implausible or inexplicable elements to the scenario suggested by @jondaba , can we work with it a little?

As posted upthread, I too consider Jason was abducted. I believe it's possible his car was driven by the criminal and followed by an accomplice to the crime. Jason's car was ditched by the driver who continued on in the accomplice's vehicle, in which Jason was perhaps transported also.

This possible scenario is supported by there being no evidence, to my knowledge, proving Jason was driving his own car at the time it was abandoned.

It could also explain the bizarre placement of his belongings on the road, which suggests wherever Jason was, he was naked.

Jason's phone was found by his Dad between the driver's seat and the console. At least, for me, it's a place I check when I can't find my phone, as it has slipped down there countless times. Reportedly, Jason's phone as on and had a signal.

"...Investigators say Jason’s phone, which was found between the driver’s seat and center console, was on and had a signal,..."
Cell phone data reveals timeline in mysterious disappearance of Texas State student Jason Landry

IMO, if a person had an accident, at night, on a somewhat deserted road, he/she would search for the phone and call for assistance. As Jason had been using his phone earlier on his trip, it's reasonable to believe he'd look for it between the driver's seat and the console.

I understand we've discussed the possibility Jason was confused from a developing concussion. If so, perhaps he didn't think of looking for his phone, because he was unable to think logically, at all. That's certainly a reasonable assumption. But why have extensive searches for a trace of him in the surrounding area found nothing?

Stashing the phone somewhere is what you might do if you were in trouble and wanted someone to be able to find you.

This is a plausible scenario and would explain why he was so far away from where he should have been on an almost deserted road.

I still think it is possible that he is in the search area and wasn't found based on a number of examples I gave in previous posts.

LE should of course consider all angles to be sure.

 

[Seattle1]

I apologize to those who've previously suggested Jason could have experienced just such a psychotic reaction to weed, because I've scrolled by your posts, thinking surely you pondered something ridiculously impossible. Now, I agree with you that it's a possible, even a probable explanation of why and how Jason disappeared. My mind if flailing and grabs at a hope he also experienced euphoria, if it's so he met his death that night.

^^rsbm
No need to apologize @Puzzles -- and sadly, it's no longer grandpa's marijuana of the 70's we deal with. I'm also reminded that my that granddad's generation typically had no other pharmaceutical/ chemical in their bodies when they smoked which is seldom true today-- esp given the number of children growing up on daily dosage Rx meds. MOO

 

[Gemmie]

BBM
Thank you for this, @Gemmie.

The article from the link you posted has completely changed my idea of what may have happened to Jason, had he smoked just a small amount of marijuana the night he disappeared.

From the autopsy report for Ms. Gilbert, in the link you provided, we learn that she had a small amount of marijuana in her system, "consistent with having recently taken a few puffs from one to two joints. There were no other illegal substances in her system."

Her cause of death was hypothermia, and although the temperature the night of her death was lower than the night Jason disappeared, the autopsy report states " marijuana likely contributed to death, although the degree to which it contributed to death is uncertain."

Her naked body was covered with "hundreds of abrasions," including on the soles of her feet, from running or walking naked and burrowing into the briar patch.

Her clothes, as Jason's, were found distributed over some distance as she stripped naked.

It was determined she most likely had an psychoactive reaction to the very small amount of marijuana – .001 mg/L – she had inhaled.

The autopsy report also states, " it is unknown whether the decedent's actions of removing her clothes are due to psychoactive effects of marijuana or due to paradoxical undressing." The toxicologist also explains that psychoactive drug effects of marijuana are uncommon, but can produce "euphoria, altered perception of time, perceptual disturbances, and acute psychosis, with symptoms including but not limited to paranoid delusions, auditory and visual hallucinations and disorganized thinking. Generally, psychotic symptoms, when experienced, last minutes to hours, with some reports of symptoms lasting for weeks. Additionally, psychotic symptoms have been documented to recur with repeated cannabis use."

@Gemmie, I see you tell us that you posted a while back about how Ms. Gilbert was found, as we consider what may have happened to Jason. I'm impressed by the correlations you've unearthed.

I must have missed your earlier post, because I'm surprised by what I've learned from reading Ms. Gilbert's autopsy report, and understanding now that it's possible to experience acute psychosis from marijuana at all, never mind from just a few puffs.

I'm not just surprised by what I've learned, but frankly shocked, and very humbled too by how ignorant I've been about marijuana, in spite of having used it for more than fifty years.

I apologize to those who've previously suggested Jason could have experienced just such a psychotic reaction to weed, because I've scrolled by your posts, thinking surely you pondered something ridiculously impossible. Now, I agree with you that it's a possible, even a probable explanation of why and how Jason disappeared. My mind if flailing and grabs at a hope he also experienced euphoria, if it's so he met his death that night.

I'm glad you found my earlier post informative @Puzzles. Jamisha's autopsy report was an eye-opener for me too.

Thinking about how far in the briar patch Jamisha was just made me ponder this... Since Jason hasn't been found, and the area was exhaustively searched for hundreds of man hours... is it possible he burrowed in somewhere that searchers decided didn't deserve a closer look, because to them, there'd be no way possible he could have gotten in there in his state (naked and shoeless)? We have now learned that just because we think something has to be impossible... it actually can be possible.

 

[wary]

Huh? Occams razor? A head injury explains everything??????

Everything except your own question: "The question is - where is he?"

Respectfully, how does Occam's razor explain the absence of blood in the car?

Respectfully, how does Occam's razor explain the two separate piles of clothes at least 900 feet from the car?

Respectfully, how does Occam's razor explain that although you say JL suffered a life-ending injury in the crash, there's no body near that crash site?

Respectfully, how does Occam's razor derive that after suffering a fatal head injury, JL dug himself a grave, somehow covered himself up with dirt and only then died?

Respectfully, vast numbers of missing people are found above ground, after considerable periods of time. Some dead of homicide, or accidents, or natural death, or suicides. Many had been searched for in the same general area as where they were found. Dog searches were often useless.

 

[happyday]

I'm glad you found my earlier post informative @Puzzles. Jamisha's autopsy report was an eye-opener for me too.

Thinking about how far in the briar patch Jamisha was just made me ponder this... Since Jason hasn't been found, and the area was exhaustively searched for hundreds of man hours... is it possible he burrowed in somewhere that searchers decided didn't deserve a closer look, because to them, there'd be no way possible he could have gotten in there in his state (naked and shoeless)? We have now learned that just because we think something has to be impossible... it actually can be possible.

Oh I think it’s totally possible, @Gemmie! And if we’re going with the theory that Jason was driving, had an accident and walked away never to be found, I think it’s likely that he’s in a hidey hole somewhere not too far that would surprise us.
I tend to think that in this theory he was in an altered state from drug, mental break or a combination of the two and so ended up somewhere not logical to most of us.
I’m not ruling out something nefarious happening to him either before or after the wreck because some of the actions of people at the scene are confusing to me, but this theory works best for me at the moment.

 

[wary]

I grew up on a farm in the midwest on a gravel road that turned to dirt (minimum maintenance) in the middle of the section, just a couple hundred feet past our driveway. If you turned up the dirt road, it deadended a half mile away into a T intersection where you would have to turn right or left. If you drove the other direction down the gravel road, you would drive for 3 and a half miles over narrow bridges & little hills & ridgeboard intersections and ruts and down a seriously crowned road - and then you would hit an intersection where you could continue on down a paved US highway for miles & miles & miles. Or you could turn right or left onto a paved highway road as well. ...sorry for the long drawn out description but, here's the deal: we *VERY* regularly had people that would get stuck on the dirt road after it had rained or snowed. These people that got stuck would generally act like they thought it was *our* fault that the road changed to dirt and fully thought it was our responsibility to pull them out. And when we asked what they were doing on the road to start with and how they missed the big bright reflective signs that notified them there was a minimum maintenance road ahead or that it dead-ended just further ahead, their response was very commonly that they fully believed they were still driving on the paved US highway that they'd left 3 & a half miles earlier when the highway made a one mile jog before it continued on. This was obviously before tech like Waze or Google/Apple Maps. And these are the experiences that I've had which have formed my opinions of people and their driving habits. And it's why I don't flinch for even a second to accept that Jason drove a few miles before attempting to turn around or realize that his phone wasn't navigating him any longer. I'm sure it seems completely unfathomable to most people to think that JL couldn't have known that he'd missed his turn. But honestly, this stuff happens.

I think that it’s likely that a combination of perfectly likely circumstances ganged up on him.

1: phone falls and slides to an inaccessible position. He continues driving, thinking that it’s too late at night to stop and try to find it.
After all, he knows where it is.

2: Waze freezes up. I think I’ve had that happen.

3: He drives straight at the intersection, probably notices that the gravel road is not right, but assumes that the silence of Waze means that he’s still on the best route to pick up the main highway again.

People have said that he was driving the wrong way entirely. But, his father said that he trusted Waze absolutely, so perhaps his sense of direction was weak.

 

[Megnut]

Just occurred to me.... those missing minutes.....

It's easy to envision the mistake at the intersection.

It's easy to imagine he thought Waze was still functioning, for a time...

We don't know the nature of his last snap chat.... perhaps it was emotional... like a break up or big bitcoin loss (just thinking of things that have led people in his age group to real despair)....

So he could've been mildly or heavily under the influence of alcohol, marijuana, medication prescribed or otherwise and/or EMOTION. Any one of those or any combo of those could cloud reasoning....

So he continues on his way, makes a turn or two, figuring he can find his way back if he has to but imagining he's driving parallel to the road he needs to be on. And continues forward, figuring he'll get to it eventually.

Maybe he DID try to turn around, maybe he got himself horribly turned around. Maybe he didn't think he was in any kind of peril, maybe he decided Waze was to blame and wouldn't be of help, wasn't in need of a call for help because he was intending to find his own way out -- until the moment that he decided he needed his phone, if in fact groping for it is what caused the swerve...

It's sad to imagine how close he may have been to his car when help arrived....

.... he could've been saved.

If only.

JMO

 

[diggndeeperstill]

I'm glad you found my earlier post informative @Puzzles. Jamisha's autopsy report was an eye-opener for me too.

Thinking about how far in the briar patch Jamisha was just made me ponder this... Since Jason hasn't been found, and the area was exhaustively searched for hundreds of man hours... is it possible he burrowed in somewhere that searchers decided didn't deserve a closer look, because to them, there'd be no way possible he could have gotten in there in his state (naked and shoeless)? We have now learned that just because we think something has to be impossible... it actually can be possible.

@Gemmie I am curious about something and admittedly have not researched it. Was Jamisha an experienced weed user? Do these psychoactive properties hit first-time users, or do they develop over time? I would also wonder if the toxicology testing done is able to test for all the different psychoactive drugs that there are nowadays? Does anyone know? I know there are some crazy new things that I didn't even know about until recently. I have read how using MDMA or Molly combined with alcohol can increase the risk for drug-induced hyperthermia.

To respond to your question about burrowing in. That would not be dismissed as a possibility with Texas Search and Rescue, nor Equusearch. I truly think that would have been considered. We know this search involved dogs, multiple times, mounted people, drones, helicopters, planes, divers, and people yet Caldwell County Sheriffs office has been remiss to update after the search. They were even quoted in an article indicating that updates would follow, yet there have been none. I have linked that article before. So many things don't make sense with this case and I will be the first to say that the handling of it has not made sense either.

One question I have is the statement that CCSO made that said they did not believe Jason was forced to take off his clothes. I am wondering how they would know that? Is that statement made just because they have no evidence proving such? There are actually several robberies where victims were made to strip.

 

[Gobstopper]

I think JL was driving his car when he crashed. I think he was either
1) hit by a vehicle while walking & removed
2) shot by someone he encountered while walking (fully clothed or naked) & removed
3) harmed by someone who was following him or came upon the accident & removed

Maybe LE isn't providing updates because there will be lots of questions that will make them look incompetent. MOO

 

[diggndeeperstill]

I think JL was driving his car when he crashed. I think he was either
1) hit by a vehicle while walking & removed
2) shot by someone he encountered while walking (fully clothed or naked) & removed
3) harmed by someone who was following him or came upon the accident & removed

Maybe LE isn't providing updates because there will be lots of questions that will make them look incompetent. MOO

I can see all those a possible. And I do agree with the last statement.

 

[Gemmie]

@Gemmie I am curious about something and admittedly have not researched it. Was Jamisha an experienced weed user? Do these psychoactive properties hit first-time users, or do they develop over time? I would also wonder if the toxicology testing done is able to test for all the different psychoactive drugs that there are nowadays? Does anyone know? I know there are some crazy new things that I didn't even know about until recently. I have read how using MDMA or Molly combined with alcohol can increase the risk for drug-induced hyperthermia.

To respond to your question about burrowing in. That would not be dismissed as a possibility with Texas Search and Rescue, nor Equusearch. I truly think that would have been considered. We know this search involved dogs, multiple times, mounted people, drones, helicopters, planes, divers, and people yet Caldwell County Sheriffs office has been remiss to update after the search. They were even quoted in an article indicating that updates would follow, yet there have been none. I have linked that article before. So many things don't make sense with this case and I will be the first to say that the handling of it has not made sense either.

One question I have is the statement that CCSO made that said they did not believe Jason was forced to take off his clothes. I am wondering how they would know that? Is that statement made just because they have no evidence proving such? There are actually several robberies where victims were made to strip.

I don't know a whole lot about her case but have found some interesting facts. I'm pasting an article here in its entirety in the event people are unable to read it (it makes you subscribe. I'm just really fast at capturing text before they block me. lol). Bolding and underlining some interesting points.

The only reason Jamisha's case got brought up here in the first place is there seem to be a lot of things that happened to her that could have happened to Jason as well (I didn't want mods to think this post isn't relevant to Jason's case and remove it). One being her state of mind. She was very stressed about a lot of things, Jason likely was too. They both crashed and appeared to undress and run off. They both smoked MJ. Jamisha was obviously feeling no pain or she wouldn't have run around barefoot as much as she did (enough to suffer abrasions to her feet), not to mention what appears to be that she backed into the briars.

I noticed more, and much longer, scratch marks on the autopsy picture of the rear than the front. Maybe she thought someone or something was chasing her? As for Jason... a lot of folks have doubted that he could have walked off barefoot due to the pain. I think he very well could have if Jamisha did. Lastly, as I mentioned... it looks to me like she backed into the brair thicket as if something was coming after her (imagined). Maybe that's what happened to Jason. He thought something was coming after him and he backed/burrowed into something, pretty darn deep. Keep in mind Jamisha was so deep into the briar thicket they had to take a chainsaw to get her out.

As for your Q if she was into pot a lot, or just dabbles a little.. her mom's comment made me think it might be more than dabbling.
--
<Modsnip to comply with quoting policies; link at bottom of page>

<snip>

The commonwealth’s attorney shared entries from the teen’s diary in which she wrote “the world I live in is like the matrix.” She had told her boyfriend “her step-father had raised her to be a demon,” Doucette’s report states.

Though her mother told police Gilbert “was known to act ‘crazy’ when she smoked marijuana,” investigators found no other evidence that would suggest an underlying mental health issue.
<snip>

In a 15-page report, prosecutors laid out their interpretation of the events of Thursday, Nov. 28.

That evening, Gilbert and her boyfriend — identified only as T.N. — picked up another friend and went to the lower Rivermont area where they bought marijuana. They met up with a fourth person and shared two marijuana joints in a car. A witness said Gilbert “seemed to become agitated” as they smoked.

Jamisha and her boyfriend parted from their two unnamed companions and smoked another joint together, the report states.

Witnesses said the marijuana seemed to be potent, but that there was no evidence it was laced with any more powerful drugs, Doucette said. There were no other drugs — including alcohol — in her system, according to a toxicology report.

As they smoked, Gilbert became emotional and began talking about her living situation and “how her step-father had raised her to be a demon.” Doucette could not provide more information regarding that relationship.

<snip>

At about 1:55 a.m., a surveillance camera from the city waste water treatment plant on Concord Turnpike captured a black female running toward U.S. 460. Officers saw no one else in the video and no evidence she was being chased either on foot or by car. The individual seemed to be stripped to the waist.

About a half-mile from the crash scene, police found a jacket, t-shirt and bra. A citizen came forward and told officers he found the clothing in the middle of the road at about 3 a.m. Inside a jacket pocket, investigators found Gilbert’s house key.

Another person told investigators he found a pair of boots and pants just west of the sewage plant that matched the description of Gilbert’s clothing. Officers found no evidence linking that man to Gilbert’s disappearance.

<snip>

In about half of hypothermia deaths, doctors have observed what is known as “paradoxical undressing.” As a person freezes, circulation can cause a “false feeling of warmth” as warm blood rushes into areas of frozen skin, the autopsy report states. This can lead the victim to undress. Lynchburg dipped to 17 degrees the night Gilbert disappeared.

The medical examiner also remarked marijuana can lead to “symptoms including but not limited to paranoid delusions, auditory and visual hallucinations, and disorganized thinking.”

<snip>

Toxicologists informed Doucette “it is not common for someone to act in the manner that Jamisha Gilbert did after having only smoked a small amount of marijuana,” the report states.

The commonwealth’s attorney noted while marijuana does not always provoke such a strong psychotic reaction, it appeared to have such an effect on Gilbert.

As evidence, he cited Harvard Medical School research that has documented “brain abnormalities in young adults who are marijuana smokers. … regions related to decision-making, motivation, and emotional processing in participants tended to be compromised. The findings revealed differences in the mind of young adult marijuana users, at an age when their brains were still developing.”

<snip>

“This does not have to happen to anyone else. By releasing this report and exposing all of the facts in this case, it is our hope that local teenagers and young adults will understand that smoking marijuana can exacerbate mental health issues and make rational people act completely irrationally.

<snip>

“Her mental state on the night of her disappearance, being upset over family issues and her living situation, when combined with the effects of smoking marijuana and the trauma of being involved in a vehicle accident seemed to have pushed her over the edge.”
-
16 page Attorney's investigation report (very interesting info in my opinion): Read the commonwealth's attorney's full report on the death investigation here (PDF).

Source: Jamisha Gilbert's death explained, but questions remain

 

[BRains55]

I think JL was driving his car when he crashed. I think he was either
1) hit by a vehicle while walking & removed
2) shot by someone he encountered while walking (fully clothed or naked) & removed
3) harmed by someone who was following him or came upon the accident & removed

Maybe LE isn't providing updates because there will be lots of questions that will make them look incompetent. MOO

This is more in line with my thoughts.

 

[happyday]

I don't know a whole lot about her case but have found some interesting facts. I'm pasting an article here in its entirety in the event people are unable to read it (it makes you subscribe. I'm just really fast at capturing text before they block me. lol). Bolding and underlining some interesting points.
<modsnip>

16 page Attorney's investigation report (very interesting info in my opinion): Read the commonwealth's attorney's full report on the death investigation here (PDF).

Source: Jamisha Gilbert's death explained, but questions remain

WOW

 

[Gemmie]

And I have to apologize for my long post above. Sorry! lol

Another thing to add that I brought up earlier in this thread is the fact that Jason's brain was not fully developed at his age. You can Google for it to read more on this. Here is one such example:

Understanding the Teen Brain
It doesn’t matter how smart teens are or how well they scored on the SAT or ACT. Good judgment isn’t something they can excel in, at least not yet.

The rational part of a teen’s brain isn’t fully developed and won’t be until age 25 or so.

In fact, recent research has found that adult and teen brains work differently. Adults think with the prefrontal cortex, the brain’s rational part. This is the part of the brain that responds to situations with good judgment and an awareness of long-term consequences. Teens process information with the amygdala. This is the emotional part.

In teens' brains, the connections between the emotional part of the brain and the decision-making center are still developing—and not always at the same rate. That’s why when teens have overwhelming emotional input, they can’t explain later what they were thinking. They weren’t thinking as much as they were feeling.

So, while I'm not claiming to be an expert on this (I'm clearly not), perhaps smoking pot for those with brains not fully developed can have different reactions than for adults (over age 25). Sure, they think they are adults, after all... they are allowed to get their driver's licenses and enlist in the military, but they are not adults as far as brain development goes. But that's a whole other conversation...

 

[Curiousobserver]

Respectfully, vast numbers of missing people are found above ground, after considerable periods of time. Some dead of homicide, or accidents, or natural death, or suicides. Many had been searched for in the same general area as where they were found. Dog searches were often useless.

Bingo- most people are found less than 1 mile from where they were last seen and in a place previously searched. I have posted many examples in this thread of people just a few hundred feet from where they were last seen. It seems totally impossible to think how that could happen but again and again it does.

 

[Gemmie]

Bingo- most people are found less than 1 mile from where they were last seen and in a place previously searched. I have posted many examples in this thread of people just a few hundred feet from where they were last seen. It seems totally impossible to think how that could happen but again and again it does.

It doesn't sound impossible to me at all. Then again, I've lost things and haven't even moved from where I was sitting. I'm serious. lol I'm like..... "I haven't even moved! Where is such and such?!?!?"

So... yeah, not finding a missing body when you don't even know exactly where they are doesn't sound impossible to me for them to be missed.

 

[happyday]

Just wanted to share that I’m in a FB group for TX State parents, and occasionally they post a missing post about Jason and ask everybody to not forget that he’s still missing. They did one today. Everyone is so sad about it. —hope it’s ok to post that.

 

[Gemmie]

Just wanted to share that I’m in a FB group for TX State parents, and occasionally they post a missing post about Jason and ask everybody to not forget that he’s still missing. They did one today. Everyone is so sad about it. —hope it’s ok to post that.

Glad to hear that. Jason has NOT been forgotten!