TX - Jonathan Foster, 12, Houston, 24 Dec 2010 - #10

[lynnb]

Good question, Openmind, very good question. I don't think we were told anything about that.

In every media report I've read, it stated that MN put herself there at 12:30, along with a witness that saw her truck there around that time. but not once have I seen anything reported that the SD backed that up.

 

[jjenny]

I didn't describe it as a case with no evidence. Although they weren't very specific about evidence except for the video -- the other evidence would have to be subject to forensic tests which would take time.

Well having video certainly would be a good start, don't you think?

 

[jjenny]

why wouldnt a family suspect family? especially in a case where the boy has been moved from home to home involving members concerned for his well being.....especially when you have a parent who was very concerned of how her parenting skills were appearing to others...jmo

What motive would the family have?
I see no point in discussing this further. Police ruled the family out and they have alibis. What basis is there for suspecting the family?

 

[Bedelia]

Well having video certainly would be a good start, don't you think?

Jjenny sweetie, go back and read what I wrote. I never said the police didn't have evidence against MN. Obviously they do. I'm talking about emotional reactions in a hideous murder.

 

[jjenny]

Jjenny sweetie, go back and read what I wrote. I never said the police didn't have evidence against MN. Obviously they do. I'm talking about emotional reactions in a hideous murder.

Most people can't help but have an emotional reaction in a case like this, which is probably a good thing.

 

[Openmind]

It is not uncommon for LE to not activate Amber alert if they aren't even sure the child was actually kidnapped, there is no description of the suspect and the suspect's car, etc. If 12 year old is missing LE also isn't going to be as concerned as if he was 2. After all 12 year old could have gone somewhere on his own and then come back in a couple of hours, which is likely what happens in most cases.

That is what I had heard -- there was nothing to assume he was kidnapped or details to give for an Amber Alert. The mother's initial assertion that he had run away probably did not make the police suspect anything but a kid that had run away. Truthfully, even in the burbs the reaction might have been the same. You'd be surprised how often kids go missing and turn up at a friend's house playing video games. In hindsight, I bet everyone wishes they had done things differently, but, in this case, I fear other than catching MN sooner, I fear Jonathan's fate was determined before they even called the police.

I can't imagine MN driving around with this child's burned body in the back of her truck. Could anyone with a higher truck seen into her's? She really is callous and stupid.

 

[lynnb]

Well having video certainly would be a good start, don't you think?

I agree with you 100% that MN is guilty of disposing the body. No arguing with video. But I think what they are saying is that until the other evidence is analyzed, we can't be 100% sure that MN is the one who burned the body. Yes, she was a welder and she had welding equipment in her apartment. But what happens if testing shows that wasn't the welding equipment used?

 

[jjenny]

I agree with you 100% that MN is guilty of disposing the body. No arguing with video. But I think what they are saying is that until the other evidence is analyzed, we can't be 100% sure that MN is the one who burned the body. Yes, she was a welder and she had welding equipment in her apartment. But what happens if testing shows that wasn't the welding equipment used?

Even at trial, the law doesn't require prosecutor to be a "100 % sure."

 

[sophclown]

something I'd like thoughts on....
MN has been described as a cold heartless person with the eyes of a serial killer etc.
Where does the missing stuffed animal fit into all this? Would a cold heartless murderer allow their victim the comfort of their favorite stuffed animal? Why comfort the victim if your plan is to put them thru the most vile thing you can think of?
I honestly am only asking because the missing stuffed animal just seems so strange. It makes me think Jonathan was alive when he left that house.

JF was proably alive when he was lured from his own apartment by MN. People that hurt children have many tactics to get them into their clutches. MN proably lured this child away very quietly, quickly and told him many lies. It is after he was lured away is what needs to known. I'm sure LE does know all the grim details. The missing stuffed animal was a lure! The missing telephone was taken so fingerprints could not be lifted from the handset. JF was violently abused and murdered at the perp's home. MOO!

 

[lynnb]

Does anyone here who followed the Zahra case remember the initial reports in the investigation? LE was sure that a woodchipper had human remains on it and they had to be Zahras. Only after testing did they say that that was not the case.

 

[Blue Ridge]

I agree with you 100% that MN is guilty of disposing the body. No arguing with video. But I think what they are saying is that until the other evidence is analyzed, we can't be 100% sure that MN is the one who burned the body. Yes, she was a welder and she had welding equipment in her apartment. But what happens if testing shows that wasn't the welding equipment used?

SHE was the welder that witnesses observed at Jonathan's residence. SHE was the welder that is on video dumping his body. It doesn't make any remote sense what-so-ever that she passed him off to some other welder to burn and then retrieved him to dump.

 

[Bedelia]

Even at trial, the law doesn't require prosecutor to be a "100 % sure."

Well, if it wasn't the welding equipment used and they could prove that, it'd be a big problem during the trial. What's your point here? My posts are talking about questions and evidence, they are not saying MN did not do it.

 

[Dear Prudence]

why wouldnt a family suspect family? especially in a case where the boy has been moved from home to home involving members concerned for his well being.....especially when you have a parent who was very concerned of how her parenting skills were appearing to others...jmo

The original poster thought it strange that the SD would suspect a pedophile took Jonathan so soon. So, if SD knows he did nothing to Jonathan I really don't think suspecting he was kidnapped by a stranger for sex is out of line. After all Jonathan had been missing 3 days already when this hit the media and the SD stated this (I think).

 

[rotterdam]

My perception is that AD was doing her best, and money wasn't exactly flowing abundantly into her bank account. I'm sure that if it was even remotely workable, she would have paid (or traded) for a babysitter for after-school and other times when she couldn't be at home. Apparently she trusted SE as a babysitter for J, and moved into SE's home with J.

These things break my heart because sometimes it might be for lack of adequate money that things like this are more likely to happen and people cannot be protected from harm. Somewhat different situation, but even Elizabeth Smart (family of affluence) was kidnapped from her own home. Something horrible like this could happen to anyone, IMO.

I wish I knew why such things happen, and why some (and so many!) people do these unconscionable things.

At 12 years old, I would think many parents would not have a babysitter anymore during the daytime even if money was not much of a problem. Many kids would be highly offended at that age and most can be safely left alone for some hours during the day. Unless the kid had to be left overnight and you obviously wanted somebody there to make them dinner and make sure they went to bed on time. Heck, it is not that unusual to have a 12 year old watch younger siblings..

 

[Pollywog]

I just cannot understand why so many children are being killed these days. My heart breaks for this child and his family. Could he have gone with her willingly since he knew her or rather the room mate knew her? Didn't he call his mom? Maybe he was gonna ask if he could leave with her? How horrible for this little boy. OT - here in Tampa a man stabbed his 6 year old son 20 times last night - I just can't wrap my mind around all this violence against kids.

 

[gypsyblue]

What motive would the family have?
I see no point in discussing this further. Police ruled the family out and they have alibis. What basis is there for suspecting the family?

before we twist the original question.... reminder.. we were speaking of thoughts and scenarios from the jump, not now.

 

[jjenny]

The original poster thought it strange that the SD would suspect a pedophile took Jonathan so soon. So, if SD knows he did nothing to Jonathan I really don't think suspecting he was kidnapped by a stranger for sex is out of line. After all Jonathan had been missing 3 days already when this hit the media and the SD stated this (I think).

Well exactly. SD is not going to say "well I suspect myself" if he knows he didn't do it.
It's not illogical to think a pedophile took a 12 year old boy if that boy has gone missing. No one would take 12 year old to raise him, the family is not well off so kidnapping for ransom is not likely, etc.

 

[lynnb]

SHE was the welder that witnesses observed at Jonathan's residence. SHE was the welder that is on video dumping his body. It doesn't make any remote sense what-so-ever that she passed him off to some other welder to burn and then retrieved him to dump.

I didn't mean to imply that I thought she passed him off to another welder. All I am saying is that until the evidence is analyzed, I still am not convinced she acted alone. That's all. Acted alone in the disposing of the body...yes I believe that. But prior to that I'm just not sure yet. Once the evidence is analyzed I may get all the proof I need to believe she is guilty of everything. and acted alone.

 

[Kimmer]

something I'd like thoughts on....
MN has been described as a cold heartless person with the eyes of a serial killer etc.
Where does the missing stuffed animal fit into all this? Would a cold heartless murderer allow their victim the comfort of their favourite stuffed animal? Why comfort the victim if your plan is to put them thru the most vile thing you can think of?
I honestly am only asking because the missing stuffed animal just seems so strange. It makes me think Jonathan was alive when he left that house.

IMO Johnathan knew very quickly when IMN was inside that apartment that he was in serious trouble, and more than likely had his stuffed animal close by and grabbed it as some sort of comfort, I cannot even imagine a sweet innocent 12 year old hearing what was surly coming out of the evil person's mouth, and then on top of it there were apparently threats made to the Mother by phone, so I can only imagine that Johnathan was wanting to escape to another place, any place..and since he had been so close to his grandmother and having his stuffed animal that was made by her he grabbed it and held on for dear life, that very well may be one of the things that LE found in her trash can..So I certainly don't think it was something that IMN took as a souvenir as much as Johnathan took it for comfort.

 

[jjenny]

I didn't mean to imply that I thought she passed him off to another welder. All I am saying is that until the evidence is analyzed, I still am not convinced she acted alone. That's all. Acted alone in the disposing of the body...yes I believe that. But prior to that I'm just not sure yet. Once the evidence is analyzed I may get all the proof I need to believe she is guilty of everything. and acted alone.

I don't think it's even possible to rule in or rule out a specific torch considering the torch is not like a knife or a bullet.