TX TX - Julie Moseley, 9, Mary Trlica, 17, Lisa Wilson, 14, Fort Worth, 23 Dec 1974 - #3

[Whiskers16]

Friendly reminder that information discussed on other forums/groups is not allowed unless it is posted by LE, MSM, or by the admin of a public "Find __" /"Justice for __" type facebook group.

I will be preparing the next thread soon.

 

[Cowtown Rock]

When was tt asked by the police to go wait by the phone in case there was a call from rt or was he even asked at all?

 

[Ozoner]

It just seems so obvious to me. These should have been the first checked. You don't see anyone pushing for dna matching and the like though, I often wonder if they are not already found and there is just not anyone looking that close ...

Attempting to match the DNA of those skeletons to the three missing girls seems like a no brainer, but I can understand why family members might not have pushed for it. A positive result would have meant an end to all hope that the girls were somehow still alive.

 

[Ozoner]

This is a valid question. I'll take a run at it...
The cornerstone of my shot-in-the-dark was the "repeated" idea from LE that the girls left that parking lot "in a car" with someone [sic. they trusted.] It is rare for LE to reveal something [to the public/via MSM] unsupported by any other known fact. By 200o, no human remains having turned up, the locked Oldsmobile crossed off the list - I wondered. If the car they left the parking lot in is crime scene #1, and they vanished for all practical purposes, by 6pm ~ then did LE turn the inner circle inside-out over vehicles? Because that is a very short period of time. I wondered, because the same people were investigating Carla Walker's murder - accepted by then as a "stranger abduction." That murder remains unsolved, though her case has everything you could want. I wondered if the police were handling the girls disappearance as a "stranger abduction." The last 6 years of my career I spent building hotels and restaurants in Las Vegas. People take cars out into the desert and set them on fire - daily. It buys time, but never truly destroys evidence. The Texas equivalent of that is dumping cars in bodies of water. It was December. The most convenient body of water is...so I asked. Is there any way to find out if everyone's car was followed up on, known of, and didn't go "missing" by any means in 1975? The other question was whether any searches, shoreline or otherwise, focused on bodies of water. A body of water will return its victims - even if you try to weigh them down. If they are in a 2,000 pound tomb - don't wait for Spring to help you out. I was lied to regarding the answers to those basic questions.
There was no "butler", so he didn't do it. I'm trying to get RA "un-stuck" from his bizarro conspiracy theory, so I set TT's car as "ground-zero" figuring that would be easy for Rusty to rule in or out. If the husband did it, he was alone - your sister had nothing to do with it, blah, blah, blah. That was in 2009. Five years later he decided to take that idea seriously, but not using the methodical "paper" approach. IMO he took a creative approach - a reasonable request that I had already discussed with LE, built support for, and burned it to the ground. FWPD have the details, the Austin ppl to contact. It will never be investigated because of all the things that came after. I can't help being disappointed. A stone that will remain unturned. The target was not a specific person or specific car. The goal was an exploration of information that could short-list and/or rule POI's in or out. That's the short version. The last four years have been hard.

With all due respect, FW_Cat, your tone has changed. I don't believe you were positing the missing car as just a hunch last fall. This post of your from September 21, 2018 (on page 22 of thread no. 2) had a major impact on my view of the case:

Yes and no. He owned a transmission shop and was there all day (he says.) He did show up for his weekly bowling league night at the Wedgwood bowl. He was reached there by phone at 8:30. He showed up at the mall parking lot driven by Debra in her car - around 11pm. What happened to his personal vehicle? It was not seen again. The '98 Olds was his mother's car. He inherited it, and the house when his parents passed away in April (mom) and August (dad) 1973. The Olds was there at the mall all night. Renee's dad, and his best friend (who lived next door to the Arnolds' on 6th Avenue) parked up the hill and stayed up all night watching the car. Sometime Tues. TT drove the car from the mall, and every day after that. What happened to his car? He is the "someone they trusted." He made phone calls from "work", to family members. When the police asked Rachel's mother if TT was at the shop all day, she replied "Yes" because she believed it. When the police asked "How do you know?" She told a white lie. "Because, I was there!" She wasn't. Rachel's dad worked at TT's shop, but everyone knows he had chemo that morning and she was home all day taking care of him. SO. According to his statement, he got up and went to work. Left a "little early" and went bowling. Where is the car he drove to work? What about any car he had access to at his shop? He is the lone suspect. I think a car went missing that day. And it's in 60 ft of water. We found 3 cars in the first 40 minutes exactly where I told police to look. Exactly. They are all 2-door sedans. Visibility is about 3" down there, so we need to go back and get Vin#'s, do a proper records search. If any of those cars are connected to him, wasn't reported stolen, records don't show a title transfer, he's going have a hard time explaining it. And a harder time explaining why he hid the fact of another vehicle registered to him from police. That crime scene is where no one can get to it, so I'm being patient. It has to be processed by law enforcement to be evidence. One scintilla of evidence that Julie or Renee were ever in that car (this would be the only time) - and there will be alot of evidence; he's done. Tommy's whereabouts are unaccounted for from 8am-6pm.

EBM

After reading the above post, TT went from the bottom of my list of suspects—way below DeBardeleben, Danny Wilson (whose name I didn't know at that time), etc.—straight to the top. As I interpreted that post, it sounded like you were stating as a fact that TT had a car that disappeared on the same day that the girls went missing, which if true would have been the bombshell to end all bombshells. Regardless of what your intentions might have been, I can't help but feel like I've been led down the garden path.

 

[Love trumps all]

With all due respect, FW_Cat, your tone has changed. I don't believe you were positing the missing car as just a hunch last fall. This post of your from September 21, 2018 (on page 22 of thread no. 2) had a major impact on my view of the case:


EBM

After reading the above post, TT went from the bottom of my list of suspects—way below DeBardeleben, Danny Wilson (whose name I didn't know at that time), etc.—straight to the top. As I interpreted that post, it sounded like you were stating as a fact that TT had a car that disappeared on the same day that the girls went missing, which if true would have been the bombshell to end all bombshells. Regardless of what your intentions might have been, I can't help but feel like I've been led down the garden path.

Just as a lot of people .and she did not say it was a theory
She said 3cars were right where I told LE they would be
FW_Cat also stated that she was on the first boat when they marked the cars .
.(quote) We found 3 cars in the first 40 minutes exactly where I told police to look. Exactly.

 

[Love trumps all]

When was tt asked by the police to go wait by the phone in case there was a call from rt or was he even asked at all?

He was not ask..He Was Told ,when he took the keys to LE
Go home wait by the phone Incase RT tried to call

 

[ellie60]

FW_Cat- am I wrong here- I respect that several members believe that you were stating "facts" when you talked about the cars at the bottom of Benbrook Lake, and clearly, you were right, cars were there. What I did not take as "fact" is that you were stating unequivocally that you were right, and that one of these cars would produce exact evidence needed to support your theory. I believed that you thought that to be the case, but you were allowing for margin of error-in other words, this was another thing to check off the list. Or even possibly, there could be a missing car in another body of water, but that Benbrook made the most sense. I also thought I read in one of your posts that your words were your personal "beliefs", but that they were not necessarily facts. Can you clarify? I'm confused.

 

[Kaiser Sousa]

I never doubted that Cat was offering a theory not a sudden break in the evidence of a 40+ year old case.

 

[flute4peace]

FW_Cat- am I wrong here- I respect that several members believe that you were stating "facts" when you talked about the cars at the bottom of Benbrook Lake, and clearly, you were right, cars were there. What I did not take as "fact" is that you were stating unequivocally that you were right, and that one of these cars would produce exact evidence needed to support your theory. I believed that you thought that to be the case, but you were allowing for margin of error-in other words, this was another thing to check off the list. Or even possibly, there could be a missing car in another body of water, but that Benbrook made the most sense. I also thought I read in one of your posts that your words were your personal "beliefs", but that they were not necessarily facts. Can you clarify? I'm confused.

I was also under this impression.

If RA took a theory (or a need to rule out a theory) and ran with it, blowing it out of proportion &/or turning it into a money grab, that’s on him. IMHO.

 

[Mysteries1974]

So does anyone else think that the girl in the photo is Julie?

 

[Ozoner]

I've been trying to figure out whether Brooks Bracewell and Georgia Geer could have been two of the three skeletons mentioned in the previous article. They were found in that area in 1976, but there's no mention of them being found with a third skeleton, so it seems like we must be talking about two separate finds.

Both girls are thought to have been killed by Edward Harold Bell, and one of his other suspected victims, Sharon Shaw, bears a slight resemblance to Rachel. Also, several of his murder victims were teenage girls abducted in pairs. I wonder whether he's one of the suspects on the FWPD list, even though he mostly operated in the Galveston area.
https://www.chron.com/news/houston-...old-blooded-killer-2187501.php#photo-14357902

 

[just-juju]

I've been trying to figure out whether Brooks Bracewell and Georgia Geer could have been two of the three skeletons mentioned in the previous article. They were found in that area in 1976, but there's no mention of them being found with a third skeleton, so it seems like we must be talking about two separate finds.

Both girls are thought to have been killed by Edward Harold Bell, and one of his other suspected victims, Sharon Shaw, bears a slight resemblance to Rachel. Also, several of his murder victims were teenage girls abducted in pairs. I wonder whether he's one of the suspects on the FWPD list, even though he mostly operated in the Galveston area.
https://www.chron.com/news/houston-...old-blooded-killer-2187501.php#photo-14357902

I was looking at that this morning. It seems like a bit of a dumping ground there. That is going to take some time to get straight.

 

[cody22]

So does anyone else think that the girl in the photo is Julie?

I do not.

 

[cody22]

I've been trying to figure out whether Brooks Bracewell and Georgia Geer could have been two of the three skeletons mentioned in the previous article. They were found in that area in 1976, but there's no mention of them being found with a third skeleton, so it seems like we must be talking about two separate finds.

Both girls are thought to have been killed by Edward Harold Bell, and one of his other suspected victims, Sharon Shaw, bears a slight resemblance to Rachel. Also, several of his murder victims were teenage girls abducted in pairs. I wonder whether he's one of the suspects on the FWPD list, even though he mostly operated in the Galveston area.
https://www.chron.com/news/houston-...old-blooded-killer-2187501.php#photo-14357902

The Fort Worth 3 would have been pretty far north for Mr. Bell's usual crimes. The Alvin, Texas found 3 1979? found partial sets of "correct age(but one male set)" bones would have been in his "working and disposal area". He was killing during this time period, if my memory is correct.

 

[dms]

After reading the above post, TT went from the bottom of my list of suspects—way below DeBardeleben, Danny Wilson (whose name I didn't know at that time), etc.—straight to the top. As I interpreted that post, it sounded like you were stating as a fact that TT had a car that disappeared on the same day that the girls went missing, which if true would have been the bombshell to end all bombshells. Regardless of what your intentions might have been, I can't help but feel like I've been led down the garden path.

RSBM -- I didn't take Cat's post as a statement of fact at all. She can't really be blamed if some of you went "down the garden path."

 

[Deleted member 165916]

<modsnip - quoted post has been removed >
Typo:
"The most important cards are the ones you have NOT played. When the time is right..."
Is this a metaphor? Then I'm guilty. My communication style isn't everyone's "cup of tea."
Uh-oh...I did it again.
I know the reference will be crystal clear the member I'm thinking of.

With all due respect, FW_Cat, your tone has changed. I don't believe you were positing the missing car as just a hunch last fall. This post of your from September 21, 2018 (on page 22 of thread no. 2) had a major impact on my view of the case:


EBM

After reading the above post, TT went from the bottom of my list of suspects—way below DeBardeleben, Danny Wilson (whose name I didn't know at that time), etc.—straight to the top. As I interpreted that post, it sounded like you were stating as a fact that TT had a car that disappeared on the same day that the girls went missing, which if true would have been the bombshell to end all bombshells. Regardless of what your intentions might have been, I can't help but feel like I've been led down the garden path.

 

[just-juju]

What if, instead of the letter being to buy time, it was instead a message to let certain people know who took the girls?

 

[Deleted member 165916]

<modsnip - source for info not provided>
I never claimed there was a car missing. I asked. My theory is a no-steps-left-out idea. The police know everything. Rusty knows everything. I'm not going to publish the War and Peace version of it here. That path you were led down? I wasn't the leader.

 

[ellie60]

FWCat-thanks for the explanation. I did not think I was off-track, but you never know.

 

[Mysteries1974]

Honestly, to me this case is back at square one. This case had better not turn into another Beverly Potts case. What I mean is that I don’t want this case to end up turning 60+ years. This case will hopefully be solved by the time the 45th anniversary comes.