TX TX - Julie Moseley, 9, Mary Trlica, 17, Lisa Wilson, 14, Fort Worth, 23 Dec 1974 #7

[jetsfanjohn]

My guess is the four would be TT, DA, CA, and Melvin. It's possible that they haven't cleared VB, but I don't consider him a viable suspect. Billy Simpson is a pretty creepy guy, but there doesn't seem to be anything connecting him to the crime, and he can't be described as someone the girls trusted. The late-night sighting with Danny Wilson doesn't make a lot of sense; the girls had already been missing for hours.

Melvin was the creep who had originally followed DA and called to the Arnold House looking for Rachel on another occasion ?

For him to be the abductor would it not also mean that Rachel was the author of the 'Runaway' letter ? Not ruling him out, bit I think that has to be factored in.

 

[Brightchaser47]

If we assume that earlier sightings are also legit then we'd also have pretty good explanation as to why they haven't made it to the meeting - likely just arrived there late cause of the stops and missed the other two.
Other stops unlikely cause of few affordable places at the mall where they could gab a bite and another stop on the way back would have to be just minutes from Julie's and Renee grandma's houses.

If we assume that their stop at A/N store included Renee taking the time to change into her new pants, that would take a minute. That, along with shopping traffic, and parking "in the back 40" could account for the delay in their arrival-- just long enough for them to miss meeting the others.
So what are the options for stopping on the way back to Renee's grandma's and Julie's house?

 

[Brightchaser47]

Maybe, it "narrows down" the estimated time of disappearance between 3:15 and 4:30 but there is nothing clear mentioned as to why then and what makes this time any more probable than sometime between they were last seen and when they were expected to be back.
You may be right that's just best guess at the expected time of them leaving the Mall - under assumption that they were there and everything went more or less as planned till they were done with shopping.
Could be that 3:15 was the last alleged sightings, but...

Having a whitness who:
- identified himself,
- claimed to know one of the girls personally,
- claimed to spoke with her on that day,
- claimed to spot another individual with/around them and identify this individual,
- forwarded all this info relatively quick
they should be pretty confident in placing girls at the mall, with full confidence.

Instead, one of the very little facts that we know for sure is that multiple family members publicly expressed their doubt and uncertaintity about girls ever making to the mall.
So... what we don't know and what they knew is that either
- the sighting itself,
- or whitness,
- or his ability to positively identify girls and/or VB
was with some reasons limited or highely questionable.

For what it's worth, there are family members who previously doubted the girls' being at the Mall, who now believe they were there (according to an earlier thread).

 

[beubeubeu]

Btw. This may not be on any relevance but this so weird to state that TT's father passed away due to old age as it seems to be clearly caused by the lung infection. And he was just 63 - "just" cause according to findagrave's data all his siblings, parents, most ancestors made it to at least 80, some well over 90, average seems to be 85ish. In that context he died young.

Not suggesting anything right now, I still can't decide if everything seems to be pointing at his possible involvement or if it was made to appear like that to get attention off somebody else.

If we could be sure that we know about every possible important person it could all look completely different than as we're just stuck with closest family members being in the spotlight.

 

[Brightchaser47]

Btw. This may not be on any relevance but this so weird to state that TT's father passed away due to old age as it seems to be clearly caused by the lung infection. And he was just 63 - "just" cause according to findagrave's data all his siblings, parents, most ancestors made it to at least 80, some well over 90, average seems to be 85ish. In that context he died young.

Not suggesting anything right now, I still can't decide if everything seems to be pointing at his possible involvement or if it was made to appear like that to get attention off somebody else.

If we could be sure that we know about every possible important person it could all look completely different than as we're just stuck with closest family members being in the spotlight.

I agree. I'm starting to feel like maybe we're missing someone, somewhere, but I don't know who it would be...

 

[beubeubeu]

If we assume that their stop at A/N store included Renee taking the time to change into her new pants, that would take a minute. That, along with shopping traffic, and parking "in the back 40" could account for the delay in their arrival-- just long enough for them to miss meeting the others.
So what are the options for stopping on the way back to Renee's grandma's and Julie's house?

There shouldn't be any stops on their way back, at least it doesn't appear like anyone had any good ideas about that - families were considering that their car must broke on their way back, not (or it wasn't mentioned) that they could stop somewhere.
Only theory I recall came from people theorizing that maybe they stopped at army navy not on their way to the mall but while heading back (but then what about the sighting and Renee's plans to get matching shirts for her new hip huggers? - she would have no reason to change in new pants if they were heading home then).

Julie's sister's grandma had no need for parking spot just dropping girls off so she would be much quicker with her trip.
If they made it to the mall then it points out as something unexpected interfered with their plans as they were already there.

 

[Pricklykitty]

Im also thinking its possible TT was implicated after the fact. I do wonder if he came to realise this, or found something out that made him leave town so soon after the trio went missing. He sold his house on minot in may of 75, which seems really soon to be moving on and severing ties unless he had knowledge that RT definitely wasn't returning. I have many questions though around how involved he could have been and why he wouldn't have spoken out in all these years if he wasn't the actual cause of the disappearance's

 

[Brightchaser47]

Im also thinking its possible TT was implicated after the fact. I do wonder if he came to realise this, or found something out that made him leave town so soon after the trio went missing. He sold his house on minot in may of 75, which seems really soon to be moving on and severing ties unless he had knowledge that RT definitely wasn't returning. I have many questions though around how involved he could have been and why he wouldn't have spoken out in all these years if he wasn't the actual cause of the disappearance's

The only way he could've been implicated that I can think of (without more info), is through the business, somehow. That would involve CA. I still don't understand why TT would buy a house in Throckmorton  after Rachel's disappearance, and put her name on the deed, if he knew she wasn't coming back -- surely not for appearances. He divorced her (on grounds of abandonment), but put her name on a deed? If that's true, it makes no sense.

 

[beubeubeu]

The only way he could've been implicated that I can think of (without more info), is through the business, somehow. That would involve CA. I still don't understand why TT would buy a house in Throckmorton  after Rachel's disappearance, and put her name on the deed, if he knew she wasn't coming back -- surely not for appearances. He divorced her (on grounds of abandonment), but put her name on adeed? If that's true, it makes no sense.

He was still married then, likely had to do that. And not sure if that divorce was granted. He filled for divorce but wasn't he denied? There was something about changing counties to remarry cause with whatever reason it was impossible to divorce Rachel in Tarrant county but possible to marry another woman in different county.

 

[beubeubeu]

He was still married then, likely had to do that. And not sure if that divorce was granted. He filled for divorce but wasn't he denied? There was something about changing counties to remarry cause with whatever reason it was impossible to divorce Rachel in Tarrant county but possible to marry another woman in different county.

It smells like another one of those blown out of proportion mystery-no-mystery details that causes endless and useless speculation like with his missing car or postal stamp.

 

[Brightchaser47]

He was still married then, likely had to do that. And not sure if that divorce was granted. He filled for divorce but wasn't he denied? There was something about changing counties to remarry cause with whatever reason it was impossible to divorce Rachel in Tarrant county but possible to marry another woman in different county.

So how'd he accomplish that without committing bigomy? I'm confused.

 

[FW_Froggy]

Btw. This may not be on any relevance but this so weird to state that TT's father passed away due to old age as it seems to be clearly caused by the lung infection. And he was just 63 - "just" cause according to findagrave's data all his siblings, parents, most ancestors made it to at least 80, some well over 90, average seems to be 85ish. In that context he died young.

Not suggesting anything right now, I still can't decide if everything seems to be pointing at his possible involvement or if it was made to appear like that to get attention off somebody else.

If we could be sure that we know about every possible important person it could all look completely different than as we're just stuck with closest family members being in the spotlight.

Both TT's parents had an autopsy along with CA. One thing in TT's favor RA said he passed 3 lie detector tests (one was 20 years later). To my knowledge DA didn't pass any lie detector (inconclusive) and she married into one of the leading lie detector families in Fort Worth within two months of the disappearance.

 

[beubeubeu]

So how'd he accomplish that without committing bigomy? I'm confused.

Not sure if he did, no idea how exactly that was supposed to work but quite likely he had to put his current wife's name while purchasing property and since that second marriage wasn't illegal somehow, there likely was something illogical going on with formalities. Or he just did it... no idea.

 

[beubeubeu]

Both TT's parents had an autopsy along with CA.

What I was trying to point out doesn't have much to do with autopsy.
I meant like... if someone dies at 90 and autopsy is performed then the cause of death is usually deemed the exact thing that caused their passing. If no foul play or accident happened and it was something like a stroke or heart attack, or infection - then it's completely reasonable and logical to say that person died cause of old age.
Same with someone who dies at 60, while big majority of relatives also passed away around that age.
But for me it's odd to say that oh, this person died at 60 due to old age, while all their relatives died at 85ish.

It's nothing really, just striked me as very inaccurate description.

One thing in TT's favor RA said he passed 3 lie detector tests (one was 20 years later).

There is nothing odd in his behaviour. He was participating in searches in the beginning, he cooperated with LE, accepted some public interviews in the past.
Many devoted husbands in similar situations did more, much more, some did less while they weren't involved in their wives disappearances. Others were directly responsible and for years were putting up an act of "searching". People are different.

To my knowledge DA didn't pass any lie detector (inconclusive) and she married into one of the leading lie detector families in Fort Worth within two months of the disappearance.

Two months? Wow, that's fast, especially considering that she was dating some random guy from Houston in December.
I can't say that I don't understand her thou. Long prior to that she was doing what she possibly could to get away and stay away from that household. I tend to believe that she had good reasons for that.
People who knew her tended to not be very flattering with their opinions, including her own family, and after reading through her posts here and some interviews I'm getting an impression of similar nature, she just seems dishonest and fake. She tends to describe things in a way that are setting all sorts of alarm bells with me, cause it doesn't appear natural to me.

But even from as little as we know about their homelife, we know enough to know that there is no way that her teenage years were anything but hellish. All that while living in a city that appears to be as dangerous as most postapocalyptic worlds from movies. That affects personality, big time. Some people are "able" to live through similar stuff and turn out to be good and lovely, but they usually, in all that mess had someone or something to lean on and get some hope, support and guidance that way.
I don't know if she had that. She certainly, from the description doesn't appear to be the "good one" from the two sisters, rather the opposite. So I'd expect her to hear straight in her face, more than once, that she should be the one that went missing, not Rachel - cause that's exactly what people do.
Her surroundings and experiences certainly could create a personality that could get involved in heinous crime... as well as just unpleasant person with sketchy vibe and no criminal tendencies.

Sorry for rambling, I just needed to type what I thought out loud.
All that just waters down to "too hard to tell".

 

[Brightchaser47]

Both TT's parents had an autopsy along with CA. One thing in TT's favor RA said he passed 3 lie detector tests (one was 20 years later). To my knowledge DA didn't pass any lie detector (inconclusive) and she married into one of the leading lie detector families in Fort Worth within two months of the disappearance.

I've always thought autopsies were conducted when there was some question as to how/why someone died. So why were they done on CA and TT's parents?
Also, I've been struck by how quickly both TT and DA seemed to go through relationships-- as if both had deep-seated needs that weren't being met. I don't say this maliciously-- just an observation.

 

[Brightchaser47]

Somewhere on an earlier thread, I remember reading that TT, CA (and someone else whose name I've forgotten), used to race cars. Is that how they met? Or is it even true?

 

[beubeubeu]

I found nice aerial photo of SS
It can be zoomed so gives pretty good idea of the size and surroundings - and it was taken in 70's, so pretty accurate as well.


Source: [Aerial view of Seminary South]

Yet only this oldie shows (almost) the whole thing. In '74 there was bunch of trees around it.



I can't find the post (or my own note) with somebody's descripton of the exact location of the record department within Murphys, but toy section was on lower level.

 

[beubeubeu]

Somewhere on an earlier thread, I remember reading that TT, CA (and someone else whose name I've forgotten), used to race cars. Is that how they met? Or is it even true?

CA used to race cars in his youth, before he got into transmission business.
I don't know about TT, but maybe he met his friend and Fran's next husband this way.
It's true that CA was racing cars, but unclear how TT and CA met. It's assummed that through DA, but your guess is as good as any.

 

[FW_Froggy]

I found nice aerial photo of SS
It can be zoomed so gives pretty good idea of the size and surroundings - and it was taken in 70's, so pretty accurate as well.

View attachment 407509
Source: [Aerial view of Seminary South]

Yet only this oldie shows (almost) the whole thing. In '74 there was bunch of trees around it.

View attachment 407518

I can't find the post (or my own note) with somebody's descripton of the exact location of the record department within Murphys, but toy section was on lower level.

When you go in the front door of Murphy's next to the Largest Water Fountain. The Record Dept. was All along the right wall on the upper level. I bought many a record there back then.

 

[Brightchaser47]

I found nice aerial photo of SS
It can be zoomed so gives pretty good idea of the size and surroundings - and it was taken in 70's, so pretty accurate as well.

View attachment 407509
Source: [Aerial view of Seminary South]

Yet only this oldie shows (almost) the whole thing. In '74 there was bunch of trees around it.

View attachment 407518

I can't find the post (or my own note) with somebody's descripton of the exact location of the record department within Murphys, but toy section was on lower level.

Good Golly, that place was HUGE! If Rachel did park the car where you have it marked, the girls would have a bit of a hike to the stores. Even if they were only there for a few minutes, it would've taken awhile to get in and out of that place.