TX TX - Julie Moseley, 9, Mary Trlica, 17, Lisa Wilson, 14, Fort Worth, 23 Dec 1974 #7

[T rex]

If only the approximate time of that sighting was released...
But they keep describing it as that he saw them shortly before the girls went missing, and kinda as this specific sighting was part of what led the PI to conclude that they went missing past 3:15 PM. What does that mean?

I don't think they were at the mall for that long (if at all) or there would probably be more witnesses.

 

[beubeubeu]

I don't know about these PI's. Renee was supposed to be back by 4:00 so maybe it's just speculation that they would have left the mall at around 3:15 or a little after.

Maybe, it "narrows down" the estimated time of disappearance between 3:15 and 4:30 but there is nothing clear mentioned as to why then and what makes this time any more probable than sometime between they were last seen and when they were expected to be back.
You may be right that's just best guess at the expected time of them leaving the Mall - under assumption that they were there and everything went more or less as planned till they were done with shopping.
Could be that 3:15 was the last alleged sightings, but...

Having a whitness who:
- identified himself,
- claimed to know one of the girls personally,
- claimed to spoke with her on that day,
- claimed to spot another individual with/around them and identify this individual,
- forwarded all this info relatively quick
they should be pretty confident in placing girls at the mall, with full confidence.

Instead, one of the very little facts that we know for sure is that multiple family members publicly expressed their doubt and uncertaintity about girls ever making to the mall.
So... what we don't know and what they knew is that either
- the sighting itself,
- or whitness,
- or his ability to positively identify girls and/or VB
was with some reasons limited or highely questionable.

 

[Makaveli the Don]

The answer to this mystery has been in plain sight from the start. Get the envelope of the letter left in the mail box the followinig day....yeah, somehow the perpetrator(s) knew all this information.....anyway, get the envolope and seeing that no "stamp" was utilized, swab the area of the envolope where someone would lick and seal said envolope for unknown DNA profile. Enter unknown DNA sample into DNA geneological website such as gedmatch and..........SOLVED.

 

[Brightchaser47]

While we're discussing DJ's ideas,  johnbelt shared back on Thread #5, "He (DJ) told one time the answer lies in the neighborhood of the two younger girls and a store down the street". Does this mean anything to anyone here, and could that have any relevance to our Mall timeline? Or is it another rabbit hole?

 

[jetsfanjohn]

While we're discussing DJ's ideas,  johnbelt shared back on Thread #5, "He (DJ) told one time the answer lies in the neighborhood of the two younger girls and a store down the street". Does this mean anything to anyone here, and could that have any relevance to our Mall timeline? Or is it another rabbit hole?

I fear it is another rabbit hole, but, I seem to recall reading thay DJ was of the opinion that the girls stopped off somewhere else, after the Army/Navy store but before the Mall and this stop off led to the girls disappearance.

I also read that they stopped off at a shoe store that day (Rachel knew a girl that worked there). I am not sure if this stop off was the one DJ was talking about, but I don't think it was.

 

[beubeubeu]

While we're discussing DJ's ideas,  johnbelt shared back on Thread #5, "He (DJ) told one time the answer lies in the neighborhood of the two younger girls and a store down the street". Does this mean anything to anyone here, and could that have any relevance to our Mall timeline? Or is it another rabbit hole?

JMO but it seems like it was just his way of investigating.

Dozens of people came forward one way or another, claiming that they saw the girls on the 23rd - some went to LE, some straight to the Arnold's, some were just talking.
Alleged sightings took place all over FW, some at the mall, some at the locations along the likely route the girls could take while heading to the mall, some at other, less likely locations.
There were some claiming that girls made few additional stops on the way. Hard next to impossible to make any sense out of it or judge how credible are those. If those were legit, then they would be of big relevance, cause that would explain why they haven't showed up for lunch (being on the way and losing time while making those stops that were pretty hard to explain).
There was one about Julie & Renee delivering small gift to another little kid from the neighbourhood - but it wasn't mentioned in any articles I recall, and I'd expect families would know about this (cause what reason they could have to keep it a secret that they're giving a little gift to some toddler?).
And another, about the store clerk (not from the mall) who was allegedly invited by Rachel to go and join the lunch at the mall... pretty weird one, cause that girl (the whitness) was still at work, had just some lunch break that wasn't long enough to actually go there, have a lunch and come back.
Both I saw mentioned by people who saw/heard it somewhere, sometime before, so could be complete gossip.

May be not exactly a rabbit hole, but as I said... it looks like DJ was just taking what was out there, these possibly HUGE gamechangers with highely questionable legitimacy - like those alleged sighting from the store, the possibility of existence of a second gift that actually got delivered, another stop on the way and so on - and kept throwing that at the crowd, full of family members, schoolfriends, acquaintances of the girls, neighbours, Fort Worth locals and others, interested in the case... in order to either maybe spike somebody's memory, and get some additional info that would add od take away some likelyness of those being accurate and legit - or just to cause people talking, with hope that maybe someone with info will slip.
For me it was just hunt for any possible new leads.

 

[Brightchaser47]

JMO but it seems like it was just his way of investigating.

Dozens of people came forward one way or another, claiming that they saw the girls on the 23rd - some went to LE, some straight to the Arnold's, some were just talking.
Alleged sightings took place all over FW, some at the mall, some at the locations along the likely route the girls could take while heading to the mall, some at other, less likely locations.
There were some claiming that girls made few additional stops on the way. Hard next to impossible to make any sense out of it or judge how credible are those. If those were legit, then they would be of big relevance, cause that would explain why they haven't showed up for lunch (being on the way and losing time while making those stops that were pretty hard to explain).
There was one about Julie & Renee delivering small gift to another little kid from the neighbourhood - but it wasn't mentioned in any articles I recall, and I'd expect families would know about this (cause what reason they could have to keep it a secret that they're giving a little gift to some toddler?).
And another, about the store clerk (not from the mall) who was allegedly invited by Rachel to go and join the lunch at the mall... pretty weird one, cause that girl (the whitness) was still at work, had just some lunch break that wasn't long enough to actually go there, have a lunch and come back.
Both I saw mentioned by people who saw/heard it somewhere, sometime before, so could be complete gossip.

May be not exactly a rabbit hole, but as I said... it looks like DJ was just taking what was out there, these possibly HUGE gamechangers with highely questionable legitimacy - like those alleged sighting from the store, the possibility of existence of a second gift that actually got delivered, another stop on the way and so on - and kept throwing that at the crowd, full of family members, schoolfriends, acquaintances of the girls, neighbours, Fort Worth locals and others, interested in the case... in order to either maybe spike somebody's memory, and get some additional info that would add od take away some likelyness of those being accurate and legit - or just to cause people talking, with hope that maybe someone with info will slip.
For me it was just hunt for any possible new leads.

That may be true. But just for kicks, what store(s)  were "down the street"?

 

[beubeubeu]

That may be true. But just for kicks, what store(s)  were "down the street"?

Army Navy. And probably some other ones that I don't know about but "down the street" from Gordon is Berry... and Berry is where the Army Navy store was located.

 

[FW_Froggy]

One of the few things LE has said is that they were positive the girls were at the Mall. I won't say his name But an employee of G. C. Murphy said this. "The FBI retrieved the negatives from our 25 cent Photo Booth that the 3 girls had used that particular day that they were last seen there at the Mall." IMO this is why LE is so positive they were at the Mall. I think LE knows what time those pictures were taken and it would show what the girls were wearing. Remember LE knows a 100 times more than we do and they are not sharing. I've always wondered if there are pictures of other people in those photos along with the girls.

 

[beubeubeu]

One of the few things LE has said is that they were positive the girls were at the Mall. I won't say his name But an employee of G. C. Murphy said this. "The FBI retrieved the negatives from our 25 cent Photo Booth that the 3 girls had used that particular day that they were last seen there at the Mall." IMO this is why LE is so positive they were at the Mall. I think LE knows what time those pictures were taken and it would show what the girls were wearing. Remember LE knows a 100 times more than we do and they are not sharing. I've always wondered if there are pictures of other people in those photos along with the girls.

Is this for sure?
I've recall photo booth being mentioned somewhere but there it was said that LE did it just in case that maybe girls could take pics there - but that nothing came out of it.

 

[beubeubeu]

Unless it came out long after all those statements were made (by family members doubting they ever made it to the mall), then why would they doubt if girls ever made it there?

 

[Brightchaser47]

One of the few things LE has said is that they were positive the girls were at the Mall. I won't say his name But an employee of G. C. Murphy said this. "The FBI retrieved the negatives from our 25 cent Photo Booth that the 3 girls had used that particular day that they were last seen there at the Mall." IMO this is why LE is so positive they were at the Mall. I think LE knows what time those pictures were taken and it would show what the girls were wearing. Remember LE knows a 100 times more than we do and they are not sharing. I've always wondered if there are pictures of other people in those photos along with the girls.

Would that be the same Murphy store that had the record stand that was discussed earlier (where they were allegedly seen by the clerk)?

 

[FW_Froggy]

Would that be the same Murphy store that had the record stand that was discussed earlier (where they were allegedly seen by the clerk)?

Yes

 

[FW_Froggy]

Is this for sure?
I've recall photo booth being mentioned somewhere but there it was said that LE did it just in case that maybe girls could take pics there - but that nothing came out of it.

To my knowledge LE has never given out the results of that machine.

 

[Brightchaser47]

So, theoretically, we've got
* the girls making it to the mall
* taking pictures in the photo booth
* being seen by the record store clerk
* missing their meeting with the other kids (which we're dismissing as no big deal)
Would they have stopped somewhere to eat, at some point? It's afternoon, by now. Surely they'd grab a bite at the Mall, or head back home (if they're short on cash or running behind).

 

[beubeubeu]

So, theoretically, we've got
* the girls making it to the mall
* taking pictures in the photo booth
* being seen by the record store clerk
* missing their meeting with the other kids (which we're dismissing as no big deal)
Would they have stopped somewhere to eat, at some point? It's afternoon, by now. Surely they'd grab a bite at the Mall, or head back home (if they're short on cash or running behind).

If we assume that earlier sightings are also legit then we'd also have pretty good explanation as to why they haven't made it to the meeting - likely just arrived there late cause of the stops and missed the other two.
Other stops unlikely cause of few affordable places at the mall where they could gab a bite and another stop on the way back would have to be just minutes from Julie's and Renee grandma's houses.

 

[beubeubeu]

But from where could come the assumption that they left with someone they trusted?

Discussions about this case are full of memories of women who were attacked at the parking lots, stalked, assaulted - fake cops, creeps, exhibitionists, rapists, possible and likely serial killer attacks, guys pretending to be injured or lost (Ted Bundy style) - all from FW, all from around that time, adding to that the insane amount of murders preceded by abductions from parking lots...
No known or even implied connections to this case, just painting picture or how it was to live there then.

If not much is known then no reason to assume that they knew and truster their abductor... unless they have a pretty good idea who took them.

 

[FW_Froggy]

But from where could come the assumption that they left with someone they trusted?

Discussions about this case are full of memories of women who were attacked at the parking lots, stalked, assaulted - fake cops, creeps, exhibitionists, rapists, possible and likely serial killer attacks, guys pretending to be injured or lost (Ted Bundy style) - all from FW, all from around that time, adding to that the insane amount of murders preceded by abductions from parking lots...
No known or even implied connections to this case, just painting picture or how it was to live there then.

If not much is known then no reason to assume that they knew and truster their abductor... unless they have a pretty good idea who took them.

Makes sense to me. Persons of interest are under five which leaves Four and I can think of 3 from one family.

 

[Ozoner]

Makes sense to me. Persons of interest are under five which leaves Four and I can think of 3 from one family.

My guess is the four would be TT, DA, CA, and Melvin. It's possible that they haven't cleared VB, but I don't consider him a viable suspect. Billy Simpson is a pretty creepy guy, but there doesn't seem to be anything connecting him to the crime, and he can't be described as someone the girls trusted. The late-night sighting with Danny Wilson doesn't make a lot of sense; the girls had already been missing for hours.

 

[snakefinger]

If verified that the girls used the photo booth at the mall on that day, that seemingly debunks some theories that speculate that they never, in fact, made it to the mall and offer some alternate version of events. At least that's my read.