TX TX - Julie Moseley, 9, Mary Trlica, 17, Lisa Wilson, 14, Fort Worth, 23 Dec 1974 #8

[Brightchaser47]

That is interesting if that is accurate. I know a lot of people used to write the return address on the flap of the envelope back then rather than the upper left corner before it became a standardized practice. If that was the case, then it is obvious why the flap was missing - rip it off to remove the true sender and you've got a blank spot to put Rachel where the return address was supposed to be.

Yep. I don't think a return address was required back then. If not, I highly doubt TT sent that envelope to himself (as some have suggested). jmo

 

[T rex]

RSBM
The only problem with that idea is the envelope was postmarked that day and it was claimed that there was nothing else in the mailbox when that letter allegedly arrived.

I really wish we had a front view of that envelope. There was mention some time ago about the flap being missing when it was presented to LE. If that's true, (imo) TT didn't want it known who the sender was (whether it was him or someone else). Unfortunately, FWPD won't allow anyone to see it (not even analysts), and there's reason to believe it's been lost or destroyed. (Grrr)

I disagree with some of the others here that the envelope contained a Christmas card or something else not relevant to the case. On the day and night the girls went missing I think some people were panicking and they were taking action, not just sitting around hoping to get lucky. If they weren't taking action then where were they all at? No one really seems to know.
There may be other reasons but the most likely reason we've never seen the reverse side of the envelope is because theres nothing there to see. IMO.

 

[Brightchaser47]

On the day and night the girls went missing I think some people were panicking and they were taking action, not just sitting around hoping to get lucky. If they weren't taking action then where were they all at? No one really seems to know.

RSBM
Staging the car, avoiding the mall that night...
I don't know where they were, but I'm inclined to think it wasn't Minot. As I understand it, that was an uppercrust neighborhood. The calibre of people that the girls' families associated with would've stood out, imo. No offense intended. Frazier I'm not sure about. There was a party planned for that evening next door to Rachel's parents. I don't know whether the party went on or whether anyone saw or would've noticed activity next door. Then there's the shop. I don't think an after-hours, late-night gathering there would've drawn much attention, and phone conversations could've taken place with those who weren't present. jmo

There may be other reasons but the most likely reason we've never seen the reverse side of the envelope is because theres nothing there to see. IMO.

That is a possibility, yes. In studying the photo of it that  OddOneOut posted, the top does appear a bit jagged, compared to the other edges. It rather looks to me like it was sealed, then opened with something like a letter opener. Not sure if that means anything, just an observation.

 

[Tex Willer]

Has anyone ever had the chance to read the official police documentation? Did the clerks at the Navy store report what time the girls went there? I also believe that if Robbie Ramsel was heard by the police, he surely should have reported what time he would see the girls. Has anyone read these statements?

 

[Florent B]

I thought I read that the girls went to another address before taking the jeans to the AN Store (I'll have to look into that). Anyway, this store is the only anchor in the whole shopping story. As I understand it, a Lay Away was used to reserve (merchandise) for future delivery, while payments were in progress.

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/lay-away (US)

Which means Renee had been in this store before (maybe 2 times or more). At least once to order.
This store, I don't know if it had closing hours for lunch, but Fort Worth residents should know. Plus, before Christmas, there must have been other customers. However, when you read the story, you get the idea of two (or three) girls alone in this large store located at an important crossroads.

Maybe with little Julie Ann alone in the big car in a deserted parking lot like in a movie (missing the nightfall).

However, it was the middle of the day, before Christmas, and during the school vacations.

What may have happened was that Renee had been talking to people about the jeans she was going to get...
What may have happened was that Renee was spotted by a guy who was there for boots or something, and saw the girl go into the fitting room. Probably "man and woman".
It could have been someone who knew one of the girls (or not).
He could then have followed the girls with his car, honked the horn, they could have pulled off to the side towards SS. (Although there are two routes, but we don't even know if Rachel liked driving on the Freeway or not).
Theories which, 50 years later, lead nowhere, but which could have been exploited at the time.

 

[Florent B]

The location of the car suggests that it arrived from the AN Store via the Freeway.
We know for sure that the person who left the car in the parking lot was not interested in stealing the car, the jeans, the bonds in the glove compartment, the toy...

 

[Valiant]

I thought I read that the girls went to another address before taking the jeans to the AN Store (I'll have to look into that). Anyway, this store is the only anchor in the whole shopping story. As I understand it, a Lay Away was used to reserve (merchandise) for future delivery, while payments were in progress.

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/lay-away (US)

Which means Renee had been in this store before (maybe 2 times or more). At least once to order.
This store, I don't know if it had closing hours for lunch, but Fort Worth residents should know. Plus, before Christmas, there must have been other customers. However, when you read the story, you get the idea of two (or three) girls alone in this large store located at an important crossroads.

Maybe with little Julie Ann alone in the big car in a deserted parking lot like in a movie (missing the nightfall).

However, it was the middle of the day, before Christmas, and during the school vacations.

What may have happened was that Renee had been talking to people about the jeans she was going to get...
What may have happened was that Renee was spotted by a guy who was there for boots or something, and saw the girl go into the fitting room. Probably "man and woman".
It could have been someone who knew one of the girls (or not).
He could then have followed the girls with his car, honked the horn, they could have pulled off to the side towards SS. (Although there are two routes, but we don't even know if Rachel liked driving on the Freeway or not).
Theories which, 50 years later, lead nowhere, but which could have been exploited at the time.

Stores in the US seldom close for lunch.
Before credit cards were popular, lay aways were very common. You paid over time, but only got the merchandise when paid in full. Payments were often made weekly or biweekly depending on the purchasers pay schedule. With an item like jeans, it may have been just an initial payment to start and the payment in full of the balance to get them.
Most Army Navy stores I’ve been in were never that crowded. Certainly not like a department store or shopping mall even at Christmas time.

 

[Florent B]

Picture from TX - TX - Julie Moseley, 9, Mary Trlica, 17, Lisa Wilson, 14, Fort Worth, 23 Dec 1974 - #5 (johnbelt)

 

[Brightchaser47]

View attachment 474674
Picture from TX - TX - Julie Moseley, 9, Mary Trlica, 17, Lisa Wilson, 14, Fort Worth, 23 Dec 1974 - #5 (johnbelt)

It would've been a long drive down to Hog Bayou for that search, only to come up empty-handed. Must've been very frustrating for those who were genuinely looking for the girls.. I wonder sometimes if tips came in intended to lead authorities on a wild goose chase.
If you follow the newspaper articles on this case through the years, you'll find that sometimes authorities seem to be following every possible lead/tip (and willing to). Then there are times they seem to be quite indifferent, cruel even. There's an inconsistency that's baffling, unless you consider the possibility that members of FWPD had a vested interest in this case going unsolved. jmo

 

[Florent B]

It would've been a long drive down to Hog Bayou for that search, only to come up empty-handed. Must've been very frustrating for those who were genuinely looking for the girls.. I wonder sometimes if tips came in intended to lead authorities on a wild goose chase.
If you follow the newspaper articles on this case through the years, you'll find that sometimes authorities seem to be following every possible lead/tip (and willing to). Then there are times they seem to be quite indifferent, cruel even. There's an inconsistency that's baffling, unless you consider the possibility that members of FWPD had a vested interest in this case going unsolved. jmo

It's hard for me to talk about the US police and justice system, especially in the 1970s, when I know nothing about it (in this past time). The first thing I'd say is why the case wasn't then put in the hands of the Dallas police (the biggest city). Probably not a good question LOL.

 

[Florent B]

There are two questions that are asked through the forum, the first is about the freedom Rachel had to go to the mall and the second would concern meeting or being accompanied by a man to go there. I must confess that I had to go back and reread what I wrote a year ago (I'm not allowed to post the link here). Simply, I saw, somewhere on a forum "a woman (who) says that she and another girl were supposed to meet Rachel and Renee at Murphy’s for lunch. She adds that the trio never showed up, but also admits that she and her friend didn’t wait very long and went shopping on their own. The woman even claims that they never saw the trio that day in the mall."
And that's important for me because :
If this is true, it means that the trip to Lay-Away and the lunch break were planned. This is important.
And that answers the first question I asked myself about this case: When do the girls eat in this story, when do they go to the bathroom?
And that explains the reluctance for Rachel and Renee to let a little girl accompany them - the question of money for the meal!
There are some must-haves.
What's more, girls store without the boys, unless men can pay. Plan to be accompanied by VB (I'm sorry I don't know who VB is, I'm re-reading the forum since 2018 to find out). In any case there's a path that doesn't fit in this puzzle, since they didn't go to the Rendezvous with the girlfriends BUT they were seen in the record department in the company of a man (I'm writing a few lines about records by the way).
Which means that for the past two years I've been wondering about the credibility of the witness. Who would be the last person to have seen the girls. The famous last person.

(Also for newcomers) It seems that VB had previously been called 'California Jacket' and I can find the origin here:

TX - TX - Julie Moseley, 9, Mary Trlica, 17, Lisa Wilson, 14, Fort Worth, 23 Dec 1974 - #5

[QUOTE = "snakefinger, post: 16032795, member: 239426"] 87/117 fotos de Alcala Rachel Trlica [/ CITA]

www.websleuths.com

related to 'Nancy Grace's Podcast' :
"-When asked if he knew if they had made it inside the mall, R W (Renee's father) said that they had supposedly been spotted at the mall in Murphy's and a shoe store. Then he added that supposedly there was some tall, skinny guy following them, with "California" on his jacket."

 

[T rex]

It's hard for me to talk about the US police and justice system, especially in the 1970s, when I know nothing about it (in this past time). The first thing I'd say is why the case wasn't then put in the hands of the Dallas police (the biggest city). Probably not a good question LOL.

I've got some links here regarding some corruption involving Dallas PD and Buddies Grocery, one of the places at the mall that there was a possible sighting of Rachel, Renee and Julie. It seems that the head of security there was the brother of the Dallas Chief of Police. Anyway my point is I'm not sure LE in Dallas was any better than FWPD back in those days.
I also included another link that I have shared here before. It has some quotes from Bill Hutchins of Sears and other head of security at the mall including the one I just mentioned.

Fort Worth Star-Telegram 18 Feb 1971, page 28 - Newspapers.com

View the digital scanned newspaper from Fort Worth Star-Telegram dated 18 Feb 1971, page 28.

www.newspapers.com

Private Article Clipping - Newspapers.com™

The largest online newspaper archive, established in 2012. Used by millions every month for genealogy and family history, historical research, crime investigations, journalism, and entertainment. Search for obituaries, marriage announcements, birth announcements, social pages, national and local...

www.newspapers.com

Fort Worth Star-Telegram 15 Aug 1974, page 48 - Newspapers.com

View the digital scanned newspaper from Fort Worth Star-Telegram dated 15 Aug 1974, page 48.

www.newspapers.com

 

[Valiant]

It's hard for me to talk about the US police and justice system, especially in the 1970s, when I know nothing about it (in this past time). The first thing I'd say is why the case wasn't then put in the hands of the Dallas police (the biggest city). Probably not a good question LOL.

Dallas police would have no jurisdiction because the crime did not happen in the Dallas city limits. It happened in Fort Worth so they were the agency in charge. If they needed help, next in the chain would be the Texas Rangers then the FBI, not another city.

 

[Brightchaser47]

Could TT and/or some of the others have misrepresented him and his finances?

RSBM
Money is a subject that often pops up in this case. Perhaps we should question the finances of both TT and Rachel's parents. TT was portrayed as being financially set (whether he presented that image or others made assumptions). He supposedly inherited home, vehicle(s), etc free and clear. However, there are documents that would indicate money was still owed on the house when his parents passed, and when he sold it, it was actually at a loss.
As for Rachel's parents, it's been stated ad nauseam that they were in dire financial straits, owing the IRS through the business, and medical bills for CA's cancer treatments. And yet, they made a great show of money spent on Rachel's wedding, and were able to allegedly purchase their rented home a month after that same wedding.
The popular narrative is that TT supplied the money that paid for the house. Besides questioning that, I'd like to know what became of the rent money they no longer had to pay. If  my house were to suddenly be paid off by someone (and I have a modest home), that would instantly free up a healthy chunk of regular income. JMO

 

[Brightchaser47]

Has anyone ever had the chance to read the official police documentation? Did the clerks at the Navy store report what time the girls went there? I also believe that if Robbie Ramsel was heard by the police, he surely should have reported what time he would see the girls. Has anyone read these statements?

I'm not sure what information (accurate or inaccurate) is in those police records. There's a real possibility that they've been compromised. Also, FOIA doesn't apply, as this case is technically considered an "open investigation". Ironic, since it's  not currently, actively being investigated (per FWPD Cold Case Unit's website). In essence, FWPD Cold Case Unit is sitting on whatever they have. Very frustrating.

 

[Tex Willer]

Does anyone know if Debra was engaged to Tommy before or after Tommy's first marriage?

 

[T rex]

Does anyone know if Debra was engaged to Tommy before or after Tommy's first marriage?

I don't. I think this question has been asked several times here and no one has ever really had an answer for it. I always wondered if DA could have been what caused the first marriage to end.

 

[Brightchaser47]

I always wondered if DA could have been what caused the first marriage to end.

RSBM
That's a good question, although I tend to think it was other factors that split up that first marriage. jmo
I do wonder, however, how the ex-wife felt about and treated Rachel. TT and DA only dated (and briefly, IIRC)-- he married her younger sister.

 

[Brightchaser47]

DA has publicly downplayed her engagement to TT, stating it "wasn't serious". I wonder if maybe he took it more seriously than she did, given his tendency to progress rather quickly from dating to marriage in his other relationships...
DA did get married, immediately after the Trio went missing, to a man whose family was in the security business (a "whirlwind romance", in her own words). I'd say she was pretty scared of someone or something to take that leap. jmo

 

[jetsfanjohn]

I thought I read that the girls went to another address before taking the jeans to the AN Store (I'll have to look into that). Anyway, this store is the only anchor in the whole shopping story. As I understand it, a Lay Away was used to reserve (merchandise) for future delivery, while payments were in progress.

RSBM.

I seem to recall reading that they visited a shoe/clothing store where a friend of Rachel was working, that morning. Does anyone else recall reading this ?