TX - 'Lori Ruff', Longview, WhtFem UP9863, *General Discussion and Theories* #1

[ClaireNC]

it would be very helpful to have someone on here who knew her in even a minor capacity. i keep thinking that she probably wouldn't have vastly changed biographical details in meeting people simply there wouldn't be a reason to do so. in other words, why lie when you don't have to.

there would be no reason to hide things such as hobbies, interests, non-specific background information, etc. why make stuff up unless you have to, when someone could call you on it and make things seem really weird? if you're into skiing there's no reason to pretend to not be. if you're from idaho why lie to others about that - if you lie and say you're from south dakota and someone says "oh what part" then you're probably hosed.

my point is we could probably glean a ton of information from someone who didn't know her that well...someone who met her at a cocktail party or who did her hair for example. there'd be no reason to lie about inconsequential details to someone who isn't suspicious about your past. whether it's an enjoyment of tea time or a fond remembrance of summer camp in washington, i think it would be pretty easy to narrow down our search by talking to someone who remembers knowing her even briefly.

my 2 cents.

I agree with you. We did have a few local people post some comments in this thread last month. Unfortunately, they only posted for a day or two and never came back. Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - TX - "Lori Ruff", Longview, WhtFem (UP 9863), *General Discussion and Theories*

And here: Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - TX - "Lori Ruff", Longview, WhtFem (UP 9863), *General Discussion and Theories*

 

[kdsmith21]

we dont know why things were tagged. Could be tagged for storage, tagged for goodwill donation, tagged for sale....I almost bet the husband was NOT in charge of disposing of the stuff, I doubt if he went back to the house at all. I am guessing his family was taking care of it ( or more likely paid someone else to do it, hence the tagging.)

Speaking of things about the house, I've meant to mention this before and had forgotten. I took a close look at the pictures of the interior of her house. Can't remember if those are in the photos only thread. But, I noticed that up in her kitchen cupboards, she appears to have a small collection of teapots. I also thought of the tea parties with her daughter. My thought is that this is something from her childhood. Something she enjoyed with a grandmother, mother, aunt or friend. Personally, I remember my teaparties with my friends AND my mother. In any event, that also makes me think of the passport for London (and Germany). Then again, there is also the Massachusetts Laciner connection. Boston tea party? That makes me think of JFK, Jr. and the ultralight. Forget the name of it.....hmmm......give me a second....Buckeye. Whew... memory is still there after all.

At any rate, I did study the picture of her house. She was also big on the "Texas Star".

The tag on the kitchen island is on a drawer, I think it is for the items IN the drawer for sale or donation. I find it odd they would sell or donate the over stove microwave as well, but I agree, it looks like it has a tag... unless it was some kind of inventory for the estate... maybe there was some sort of probate or something that required inventory?? Just guessing...

and as far as being staged, etc... somewhere I read the house was a mess and Lori was a mess after Blake left. There are tons of cleaning products in the pictures and wet mops and vacuums.. .I would say family arranged cleaning or the realtor, the pics were taken while the house was in process of just being cleaned or I would think they would have moved these cleaning items and appliances and "stuff" for real estate pictures.. little odd realtors would leave all this stuff visible for photos to post of a house for sale.

 

[Owutatangledweb]

I binged "these eyes photography" now I find NY and WA (western Austrialia)

"through these eyes" apparently I suck at detail
I cant find the canada ?????

www.throughtheseeyes-koester.com

http://wa.golfer.com.au/directory/through-these-eyes-photography-western-australia/805

and now a bunch more that probably is going nowhere .....ugh :facepalm:

LOL. I did the same thing.......nada...... Except the famous artist that kept popping up all over the country for exhibitions.

 

[Owutatangledweb]

yes, cedar could mean anything. We have covered that. I was specifically trying to link it to our convo that the detective had thought she was from the Pacific NW area.
On that note, there is a Cedar Park in Texas that is a popular vacation area. Wonder if the family visited it.
Maybe she just likes nice closets. lol.

There is also a Cedar City, Utah, who I have tied some Lebaron descendants to.

 

[ClaireNC]

Just an FYI. The reporter that wrote the great Seattle Times article is no longer with the Seattle Times. She says that the investigator followed up on all the leads generated from the article, but he still hasn't resolved the case. She is still in contact with him and she gave me her new email address. If we have any new leads we can send them to her and she will pass them on.

 

[mommylicious]

Just an FYI. The reporter that wrote the great Seattle Times article is no longer with the Seattle Times. She says that the investigator followed up on all the leads generated from the article, but he still hasn't resolved the case. She is still in contact with him and she gave me her new email address. If we have any new leads we can send them to her and she will pass them on.

Maybe he should join us here. He's got to have access to more of her papers, etc... Right?:websleuther:

 

[masootz]

Maybe he should join us here. He's got to have access to more of her papers, etc... Right?:websleuther:

it wouldn't be the first time. in the lyle stevik case one of the investigators joined and posted for a while. he seemed to get good information/ideas from wsers so it could be a win/win.

 

[Havok]

The more I look into this, the more I think LR either worked with or was a professional identity thief. All inferences drawn are from documents obtained from the Seattle Times documents gallery found at
http://seattletimes.com/html/localpages/2021243300_janedoeevidence.html

- Her first identity chosen (BT) was born in one state and died in a second. She also used the birth certificate to obtain a valid license in a third state. This would have greatly reduced her chances of getting caught while obtaining her first official government ID.

- The BT identity she adopted had mistakes on the death certificate. Not only was BT's first name misspelled, but it also lists an incorrect DOB (3 days before BT's actual DOB). This would have made discovering the original identity theft much harder.

- She also made the application to change her name and register for a SSN in a 4th state. Since intergovernmental record searching at the state level is already difficult, it would have made piecing the deception together nearly impossible. At this point, LR has a new legal identity, SSN and a fresh start. Maintaining the BT theft is no longer necessary, and she was actually only BT for less than 1 month.

LR could not have picked a better identity to steal, given the child's age at the time of death and all issues with the death certificate. The fact that 4 states were involved in completing the theft seems to me to indicate that either she or someone who helped her steal BT's identity knew what they were doing.

 

[SideKick]

QUOTE=ClaireNC;10039171]And your source? (Wikipedia?!?!)

Gee, it's too bad about the sarcasm ClaireNC..... 'and your source? ?!?!' whats up with that?

I just don't get the Wiki comment with added question marks and exclamation marks. Should have left this but.......... really?

Merry Xmas.....

 

[ClaireNC]

(respectfully snipped)
LR could not have picked a better identity to steal, given the child's age at the time of death and all issues with the death certificate. The fact that 4 states were involved in completing the theft seems to me to indicate that either she or someone who helped her steal BT's identity knew what they were doing.

Welcome Havok! I agree with you. There was a lot of discussion about this earlier in the thread.

 

[SideKick]

The more I look into this, the more I think LR either worked with or was a professional identity thief. All inferences drawn are from documents obtained from the Seattle Times documents gallery found at
http://seattletimes.com/html/localpages/2021243300_janedoeevidence.html

- Her first identity chosen (BT) was born in one state and died in a second. She also used the birth certificate to obtain a valid license in a third state. This would have greatly reduced her chances of getting caught while obtaining her first official government ID.

- The BT identity she adopted had mistakes on the death certificate. Not only was BT's first name misspelled, but it also lists an incorrect DOB (3 days before BT's actual DOB). This would have made discovering the original identity theft much harder.

- She also made the application to change her name and register for a SSN in a 4th state. Since intergovernmental record searching at the state level is already difficult, it would have made piecing the deception together nearly impossible. At this point, LR has a new legal identity, SSN and a fresh start. Maintaining the BT theft is no longer necessary, and she was actually only BT for less than 1 month.

LR could not have picked a better identity to steal, given the child's age at the time of death and all issues with the death certificate. The fact that 4 states were involved in completing the theft seems to me to indicate that either she or someone who helped her steal BT's identity knew what they were doing.

Yet another excellent point Havok. Either she was a pro or knew pro's to assist.
Completely mysterious isn't it? Come forward to those who know!
For one to have completed this entire transaction alone, well, I can't see it somehow coming from FLEK.... alone.

 

[Havok]

Welcome Havok! I agree with you. There was a lot of discussion about this earlier in the thread.

Thanks Claire. I tried not to repeat things I'd read earlier in the forum, but there are 30 pages on this one and 70 on the first one, so I'm sure I just missed that part of the discussion. :blushing:

 

[Havok]

Yet another excellent point Havok. Either she was a pro or knew pro's to assist.
Completely mysterious isn't it? Come forward to those who know!
For one to have completed this entire transaction alone, well, I can't see it somehow coming from FLEK.... alone.

Thanks Sidekick. The more I think about it, the more I think she had to have help...

After seeing some posters point out some of the spelling/grammar errors in her resume, and seeing a few spelling, grammar and sentence structure issues in her letter of recommendation from Roger Steinbeck, I just don't think she was detail oriented enough to pull this off on her own.

I'm not saying people who don't spell every word correctly or always use proper grammar are stupid. I admit that that would be the ultimate example of the pot calling the kettle black. But I would also readily admit that I would have no idea how to go about finding a birth certificate of someone who died young in another state with obvious death certificate issues.

I guess my point is that someone who is so detail orientated in creating their new identity would certainly be just as meticulous in creating their professional resume, and especially when fabricating their first and only letter of work/rental reference.

 

[HerStory]

Lately, I have been really thinking about this aspect as well! She seems so 'fresh' and naive in her photos. What sort of circumstances would compel a girl like that to desire, and have access to, changing her identity? She would likely have been instructed......"do this...."

 

[hopeandglory]

The more I look into this, the more I think LR either worked with or was a professional identity thief. All inferences drawn are from documents obtained from the Seattle Times documents gallery found at
http://seattletimes.com/html/localpages/2021243300_janedoeevidence.html

- Her first identity chosen (BT) was born in one state and died in a second. She also used the birth certificate to obtain a valid license in a third state. This would have greatly reduced her chances of getting caught while obtaining her first official government ID.

- The BT identity she adopted had mistakes on the death certificate. Not only was BT's first name misspelled, but it also lists an incorrect DOB (3 days before BT's actual DOB). This would have made discovering the original identity theft much harder.

- She also made the application to change her name and register for a SSN in a 4th state. Since intergovernmental record searching at the state level is already difficult, it would have made piecing the deception together nearly impossible. At this point, LR has a new legal identity, SSN and a fresh start. Maintaining the BT theft is no longer necessary, and she was actually only BT for less than 1 month.

LR could not have picked a better identity to steal, given the child's age at the time of death and all issues with the death certificate. The fact that 4 states were involved in completing the theft seems to me to indicate that either she or someone who helped her steal BT's identity knew what they were doing.

Very good post, and I agree. I'm thinking that she probably got help from someone, but it's not impossible that she might've pulled it off herself. Wasn't she well versed with computers? Not sure how common computers were in the late 80's, but even if her knowledge around them came later, it could still show that she has a knack of it.

A thought I've been having lately re: what exactly she was running away from. If it was something major, and she was the victim, wouldn't she have been added to a witness protection program issued by the state? The fact that she had to go through all of this to obtain a new identity tells me that she's either a) just running away from family/her old life in general, without any major reason, b) she is the perpetrator of a crime, or c) she was the victim of a crime but the state didn't see any reason why she'd need a new identity. Maybe the perp was put behind bars, yet she felt unsafe so she decided to run away from it?

 

[HerStory]

My gut instinct says that this "failed stockbroker" of a dad had stepped on one-too-many toes. As a way of protecting her, before his own disappearance (real or fabricated)..... He either, instructed FLEK, or made arrangements on how to assume a new identity. How do we know that he really died? Maybe he went 'stealth' at the same time FLEK did. And to acknowledge FLEK's identity, publicly, would consequently out himself. Pounds to pennies, if so and still alive, he reads here.

 

[SideKick]

Yes!! FLEK looks so sweet in her earlier photos, innocent eyes and all. I wonder if she was 'mentally unstable', paranoid perhaps with no necessity, meaning, she really didn't need to be that paranoid to have changed her identity. Of course, the bottom line is...
What the heck happened in her life...

You know, it can pretty darn hard not to talk about your past.. Don't you find? She must have always been 'aware' not to participate in conversations...such as, schooling, who she hung with, where she liked to go... music.
I know when I am at work someone will talk about themselves as a young person and before you know it, everyone is pitching in about their lives....

 

[Sherwood Park]

Yes!! FLEK looks so sweet in her earlier photos, innocent eyes and all. I wonder if she was 'mentally unstable', paranoid perhaps with no necessity, meaning, she really didn't need to be that paranoid to have changed her identity. Of course, the bottom line is...
What the heck happened in her life...

You know, it can pretty darn hard not to talk about your past.. Don't you find? She must have always been 'aware' not to participate in conversations...such as, schooling, who she hung with, where she liked to go... music.
I know when I am at work someone will talk about themselves as a young person and before you know it, everyone is pitching in about their lives....

...hence the reason she wasn't a social person and also didn't engage in conversation with her in-laws.

You have a great theory that I didn't really think too much about, wow, what if her paranoia really was based on the "unreal". Scary.

Someone out there knows about her real identity 'cause someone had to help her do this i.d. change and also, someone had to have given birth to her. My wish for 2014 is that we find out who she really was.

 

[ClaireNC]

Thanks Claire. I tried not to repeat things I'd read earlier in the forum, but there are 30 pages on this one and 70 on the first one, so I'm sure I just missed that part of the discussion. :blushing:

Oh Havok, I didn't mean to embarrass you when I typed that! It was more that I was thinking to myself, "this is a great discussion, we talked about it before, but I don't remember where we netted out." When I get a chance I might try to go back and find some of the earlier discussion.

I seem to remember from that discussion that there was a book published in the mid-1980's that gave a step-by-step guide to changing your identity. Also there were "brokers" of sorts that you could pay to help you do it.

Keep in mind that this was done before the internet became popular. Research was typically done in a library, not on a home computer.

 

[ClaireNC]

Gee, it's too bad about the sarcasm ClaireNC..... Should have left this but.......... really?

Merry Xmas.....

Sorry about that SideKick! :blushing: You are right, that was rude and uncalled for. I apologize to everybody participating in the thread.

Merry Christmas!