TX - 'Lori Ruff', Longview, WhtFem UP9863, *General Discussion and Theories* #4

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Linda9681 said:
I meant how did she open a mail box without ID. I assume she opened it in the name Becky Sue since she had the birth certificate mailed to that box ( in Nevada)


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Im assuming that like everything else back then, the post offices requirements were more lax.
 
Look what I found. I've been concentrating more on various flds sects and Utah in particular in an effort to lay out maps. The previous comment about Utah being blank on the map and the ease of geography from Salt Lake City to all points important, got me going. So I threw the word stockbroker in with flds and 1980s. I am willing to research MDW if you all want to pick somebody else to see what happened to them. In particular, the several names of Colorado attorneys is important. Can we link them to that securities law firm in Colorado in the 1980s? What a link that might be!!!! More to come later......


http://www.deseretnews.com/article/45711/WEALTHY-UTAHNS-SHADY-CONNECTIONS-PROBED.html?pg=all
 
Linda9681 said:
I meant how did she open a mail box without ID. I assume she opened it in the name Becky Sue since she had the birth certificate mailed to that box ( in Nevada)
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Maybe she didn't need ID, maybe at that time she had something else that said Becky Sue Turner, maybe there were other people involved???

Just another piece of the puzzle that we can't see!
 
I definitely think other people were involved. In my opinion it doesn't seem reasonable for a young woman to be able to pull off something so intricate like this on her own just from reading a book. Last night I was reading a few articles about Faye Yager who ran the "children of the underground" starting in the 80s, right around the time LEK emerged as BST. Since Yager mainly helped parents fleeing with their children to escape abuse, I don't think LEK necessarily had help from Yager's organization, but after reading up on Yager's operations there are way too many similarities to LEK's actions for me to think that she didn't have help.

From http://dartcenter.org/content/children-underground?section=all

Many of the people who have entered her underground take the names of people who have died.
People who were born in one state and died in another are frequently used. Since states often don't cross-reference that information, a fleeing mother or father can send away for a copy of a birth certificate - saying they need it, for example, to register for college courses - and then use it to get a passport, bank account or credit cards.
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And they took on new identities - Karen Ann and Dennis DeRosa, taken from birth certificates they found after researching names of deceased people who had been born in other states. Usually, that information isn't cross-referenced. And it is relatively easy to obtain a copy of a birth certificate by mail.
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From http://www.goupstate.com/article/19890917/news/909170331

It takes three or four months for the fugitives to receive their new identities, Mrs. Yager explained. They'll be sent from stop to stop, receiving an additional false document or piece of information at each one. Many change their appearances along with their names.

<snip>

Ultimately, the fugitives receive new birth certificates. With numerous contacts in records offices, Mrs. Yager said it takes about three months for a birth certificate to arrive. Usually, the paper bears the name of a baby, long since dead. With a birth certificate, they can obtain new driver's licenses, passports and social security numbers. The children, she said, receive forged certificates and often are permitted to choose their new names. Mrs. Yager said the greatest weapons of the volunteers in the underground railroad is the passionate belief that what they're doing is right and the ability to find sympathizers everywhere.
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Owutatangledweb said:
Llrwych, can you tell me where you got the information about the specifics of the assault charge? Bruises, harassment, police called, etc. I don't recall seeing that before. Thanks.
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I took that from a timeline I was compiling back in December, when I had a lot more time to look at the case than I do now; however I didn't put a note where I found that, although I had a note about the case number. (I found that someone had shared this information in the original thread back in 2012 [mck16 posting 11-02-2012 #474], although she only reposted what the Fannin County website shows. To repeat myself, it's difficult to find anything about this case that someone hasn't already found & shared years before.)

I thought I got those details from the original Seattle Times article, but taking a quick look at it, I don't find the details stated there. Nor in any of the usual news articles about the case. Since I didn't provide a source for it, I must have taken it from one of the posts in the general thread; had it been from another forum, say the talk pages to the Seattle Times article, I would have added a note about it. And I've spent the last 20 minutes looking for it on Websleuths with no luck.

Which frustrates me. Even though this case is a little more than 5 years old, already a surprising amount of misinformation has begun to accumulate about it. So I try to be careful about what I write & document where I found facts as much as possible. I definitely remember someone describing the interaction as I presented it -- JBR called the police because LEK attacked him when he was at their house, & when the police arrived since LEK had bruises on her they arrested him -- but because I've been known to misremember things (which also frustrates me), I may be wrong about that incident.

One last detail, for anyone concerned about that story. Although it appears that JBR may have struck LEK, the impression I got was that when the police arrived they found it was a he-said/she-said category of incident & because only LEK had any bruises, they were forced to act again JBR. From what little I've found about the husband, he's not a violent sort of person: he'd run before he'd strike someone. And the wife was growing unstable enough at that point in her life that she conceivably could inflict that kind of harm on herself to get JBR in law trouble. If I remembered that detail correctly.
 
Laughing said:
Maybe she didn't need ID, maybe at that time she had something else that said Becky Sue Turner, maybe there were other people involved???

Just another piece of the puzzle that we can't see!
Click to expand...

When did they start requiring ID's. I've never had to have one and I would pick up my employers mail.
 
You have to show ID to open a PO box.. Not sure about a " drop box". Actually I don't even know what a Dropbox is.


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Is anyone here actually in the Dallas area? I am in Idaho, it wouldn't be a stretch for me to go to Boise if anything needed to be physically pulled from a courthouse there. I can also check my library for old newspapers, I'm sure they have Boise, Spokane area & perhaps some Washington papers. If we had a source to physically get to the court documents that would be so helpful!
 
I am in Dallas but honestly right now I am swamped with work and my practicum hours/ studying for my assessment check offs ... After this session I will have more time


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Owutatangledweb said:
Look what I found. I've been concentrating more on various flds sects and Utah in particular in an effort to lay out maps. The previous comment about Utah being blank on the map and the ease of geography from Salt Lake City to all points important, got me going. So I threw the word stockbroker in with flds and 1980s. I am willing to research MDW if you all want to pick somebody else to see what happened to them. In particular, the several names of Colorado attorneys is important. Can we link them to that securities law firm in Colorado in the 1980s? What a link that might be!!!! More to come later......


http://www.deseretnews.com/article/45711/WEALTHY-UTAHNS-SHADY-CONNECTIONS-PROBED.html?pg=all
Click to expand...

Thomas F. Quinn from the article has a long history of fraud relating to stock markets and other scams. He is listed as having five children in another article in the Wall Street journal. I found two daughters, one who was mentioned in a court motion with her husband and one whom I can't find any information about. The obituary for his son only lists the two daughters, so the other two children are unknown. Additionally, he was apparently connected to the Genovese family. May be worth looking into?
 
Linda9681 said:
You have to show ID to open a PO box.. Not sure about a " drop box". Actually I don't even know what a Dropbox is.


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https://www.theupsstore.com/mailboxes/personal-mailboxes
220px-Mailboxes.jpg

drop boxes are mailboxes, to put it into context in FLEK's case, it was probably something like what you would see at a UPS where they don't use a PO Box address, instead they use an actual street address, so you can pick a UPS or Mailboxes etc. store in any neighbourhood you'd like and that is the address that is used. No P.O. Box.

https://www.theupsstore.com/mailboxes/personal-mailboxes
 
Linda9681 said:
I meant how did she open a mail box without ID. I assume she opened it in the name Becky Sue since she had the birth certificate mailed to that box ( in Nevada)
Click to expand...

Do we know for sure that the Becky Sue birth certificate was mailed to that box? I don't remember hearing that. Do you even have to show id to open a mail box these days? I know that you did not need ID back in the 1980's and 1990's.
 
ClaireNC said:
Do we know for sure that the Becky Sue birth certificate was mailed to that box? I don't remember hearing that. Do you even have to show id to open a mail box these days? I know that you did not need ID back in the 1980's and 1990's.
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My impression (FWIW) is that our mystery woman obtained it in person. If you look at the photo of BST's birth certificate (#45 in the "Photos only *NO DISCUSSION*" thread -- which ClaireNC posted), there is no indication that it was mailed to anyone. The receipt simply shows it was paid for by check, which means it is possible that the person who paid for the certificate could be identified.

This detail likely raised agent Velling's hopes -- it's a top quality lead to LEK's birth name -- only to be disappointed. These records are only kept for so long -- say 7 or 10 years -- before the county (or their bank) discards them. I'm assuming that was the result of his investigation, & why at one point he lamented "too much time had passed" in this case.

As a last point, having done everything correctly to erase her birth identity I'm surprised LEK made this simple mistake by paying for this document with a check -- which can be traced -- instead of cash. (Cash was used a lot more in those days than now, & wouldn't have raised any suspicions.) Had her imposture been suspected much sooner, she would have been easily identified from this alone. Maybe this is why agent Velling suspected LEK used an identity broker.
 
How about Carol Melinda Sinkey Sawyer? One of Faye Yager's alleged abductors....
 
Just wanted to post and say hello to you all. I followed the very first thread back in the day when people were still discussing which initials were best to use for LEK, but lost track of it soon after. I'm very impressed with how that single thread has become an entire subforum with all these other threads discussing various topics. Just from my cursory reading the last few days, the LDS possibility is very intriguing.
 
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